GM OLM dead wrong

[BobFout]

The color, sound, smell, feel or taste of an oil are not conclusive as to when a modern oil should be changed. That's what leads to 3K mile / 3 month intervals. "Gee, looks/sounds/feels/smells/tastes dirty, time to change it".

With modern engines and oils you cannot see, hear, smell, feel or taste the wear metals that are in the oil, nor see, hear, smell, feel or taste low TBN. Same with viscosity, insolubles, soot, additives, or anything else that matters in an oil, with the exception of extremes. By then the damage is done.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

What we have here is a failure to trust science.

 

[360kid]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
The color, sound, smell, feel or taste of an oil are not conclusive as to when a modern oil should be changed. That's what leads to 3K mile / 3 month intervals. "Gee, looks/sounds/feels/smells/tastes dirty, time to change it".

With modern engines and oils you cannot see, hear, smell, feel or taste the wear metals that are in the oil, nor see, hear, smell, feel or taste low TBN. Same with viscosity, insolubles, soot, additives, or anything else that matters in an oil, with the exception of extremes. By then the damage is done.


So, if I put a jug of new oil in front of you and a jug of oil that has been run 10,000 miles, you couldn't tell the difference? Come on now people. I know users of this site are fans of UOA, but not everyone needs to pay for a UOA every oil change just to come to the conclusion that it's time to change their oil. Any good mechanic, heck, any knowledgable person can make an accurate judgement of their oil without a UOA.

My brother in-law, a mechanic, changed the oil in my truck last winter while I was replacing a blower motor. He said, "you let your truck idle a long time in the morning don't you." Which I had been. Sometimes I took too long getting ready and accidentally let my truck warm up for 20-30 minutes in the winter. He could tell by just looking at and smelling the oil.

Once again, I know UOA can provide a lot of great information. But I swear, some of you guys act like you gave away your brains when you discovered Blackstone. If my mechanic told me he needed to send away my oil for analysis in order to tell me if it needs to be changed, I would laugh, then find a new mechanic.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

UOA doesn't tell you when to change your oil. It helps optimize it to your driving and conditions. THe Manufacturere recomendations are the starting point. You can smell fuel in oil, you can see an oil darkineing, (although darkeningmeans nothing in regards to oil life). AN example My wife was gone for 3 weeks ona cross country freinds and family tour . SHe covered 5k miles. The oil is darker but not that dark. I will probably let it go for a week and do a uoa. not because I want to know it it is time for an oil change...most likely it is too soon. But rather to get a good baseline to base future OCI's off of and possibly push the 6 month 5k paradigm in the vehicle to 12 months 10k.
Of all the bas things about GM their OLM is the best on the market. It is accurate and considers more variables than any other I know of. I wish they would sell the rights. It would be a service tot he environment.

 

[daves87rs]

We believe in computers?



I use both the OLM and the old fashion check under the hood to make sure the oil is good..

 

[AlanRebod]

Originally Posted By: 360kid
Originally Posted By: BobFout
The color, sound, smell, feel or taste of an oil are not conclusive as to when a modern oil should be changed. That's what leads to 3K mile / 3 month intervals. "Gee, looks/sounds/feels/smells/tastes dirty, time to change it".

With modern engines and oils you cannot see, hear, smell, feel or taste the wear metals that are in the oil, nor see, hear, smell, feel or taste low TBN. Same with viscosity, insolubles, soot, additives, or anything else that matters in an oil, with the exception of extremes. By then the damage is done.


So, if I put a jug of new oil in front of you and a jug of oil that has been run 10,000 miles, you couldn't tell the difference? Come on now people. I know users of this site are fans of UOA, but not everyone needs to pay for a UOA every oil change just to come to the conclusion that it's time to change their oil. Any good mechanic, heck, any knowledgable person can make an accurate judgement of their oil without a UOA.

My brother in-law, a mechanic, changed the oil in my truck last winter while I was replacing a blower motor. He said, "you let your truck idle a long time in the morning don't you." Which I had been. Sometimes I took too long getting ready and accidentally let my truck warm up for 20-30 minutes in the winter. He could tell by just looking at and smelling the oil.

Once again, I know UOA can provide a lot of great information. But I swear, some of you guys act like you gave away your brains when you discovered Blackstone. If my mechanic told me he needed to send away my oil for analysis in order to tell me if it needs to be changed, I would laugh, then find a new mechanic.


I too can smell the difference between new and used oil. However, the smell of used oil is no way an indication that its time to change it.

What you're essentially saying is that:

(1) This oil has been in the car for several thousand miles (so you already bias yourself into believing its time for a change)
(2) The oil is getting dark looking
(3) The oil smells different so because its been in there for a while + looks dark that smell must mean its time to change it

Which is entirely unscientific. You have provided no evidence that the oil was actually "spent".

 

[360kid]

Originally Posted By: AlanRebod
Originally Posted By: 360kid
Originally Posted By: BobFout
The color, sound, smell, feel or taste of an oil are not conclusive as to when a modern oil should be changed. That's what leads to 3K mile / 3 month intervals. "Gee, looks/sounds/feels/smells/tastes dirty, time to change it".

With modern engines and oils you cannot see, hear, smell, feel or taste the wear metals that are in the oil, nor see, hear, smell, feel or taste low TBN. Same with viscosity, insolubles, soot, additives, or anything else that matters in an oil, with the exception of extremes. By then the damage is done.


So, if I put a jug of new oil in front of you and a jug of oil that has been run 10,000 miles, you couldn't tell the difference? Come on now people. I know users of this site are fans of UOA, but not everyone needs to pay for a UOA every oil change just to come to the conclusion that it's time to change their oil. Any good mechanic, heck, any knowledgable person can make an accurate judgement of their oil without a UOA.

My brother in-law, a mechanic, changed the oil in my truck last winter while I was replacing a blower motor. He said, "you let your truck idle a long time in the morning don't you." Which I had been. Sometimes I took too long getting ready and accidentally let my truck warm up for 20-30 minutes in the winter. He could tell by just looking at and smelling the oil.

Once again, I know UOA can provide a lot of great information. But I swear, some of you guys act like you gave away your brains when you discovered Blackstone. If my mechanic told me he needed to send away my oil for analysis in order to tell me if it needs to be changed, I would laugh, then find a new mechanic.


I too can smell the difference between new and used oil. However, the smell of used oil is no way an indication that its time to change it.

What you're essentially saying is that:

(1) This oil has been in the car for several thousand miles (so you already bias yourself into believing its time for a change)
(2) The oil is getting dark looking
(3) The oil smells different so because its been in there for a while + looks dark that smell must mean its time to change it

Which is entirely unscientific. You have provided no evidence that the oil was actually "spent".



I'm done. Agree to disagree. You go ahead and pay for a UOA just to tell you spent oil is actually spent. I will continue use common sense.

Golly gee, how did my dad and grandfather ever get by without a UOA service. I wonder how they did it. Hmmmm...

I bet you need a GPS to find your way out of a paper bag too. I mean, you could see the opening, but how would you actually know that was the opening without the GPS???

 

[360kid]

Once again, not disputing the use of Blackstone. They obviously provide a very helpful service. The information they provide is great.

I just cannot believe so many people jump on my back just because I made a judgement call that my Dad's oil was way past due.

 

[360kid]

Originally Posted By: AlanRebod

Which is entirely unscientific. You have provided no evidence that the oil was actually "spent".


I didn't realize I was in court. I have no need to provide evidence to anyone. If I look at oil and it's blacker than sin, smells burnt, and it hasn't been changed in 7,000 miles and it's conventional oil. Yeah, I'm going to change it. If you wouldn't, then that's you. And if you wouldn't change it, then I thank god you're not in charge of the maintenance on my vehicles. I think some people would agree with me there.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Golly gee, how did my dad and grandfather ever get by without a UOA service. I wonder how they did it. Hmmmm..


Well, if you took their cue, and factored how often they did it ..and how much fuel management, fuel content, and oils have advanced over that span of time, you're probably changing it WAY TOO soon.

If I detuned mileage by back tracking from the state of the art in fuel management and evolutions in lubricants ..your grandfather would have to been changing it every 500 miles to match a 3k/3m OCI of today.


..but, by all means, do what you think is best.

 

[360kid]

I will and I do. We all have our own philosophies. Thanks.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: FastSUV
I do appreciate the input guys; despite the controversy; hopefully some of you that take the time to re-read the post will understand where I coming from. I CHECK MY OIL & HERS. But nobdy should be going 9k on dino if it is enough time to burn off a significant amount of oil. I read me manual but most people don't...you all know that.



Just get that other guy to come over and smell it, and you'll be good to go.

 

[ADFD1]

Many of us who were raised and taught about cars from parents from the 60's and 70', or earlier, never heard of a UOA and probably learned about it here. My father never did one, in fact even after learning about them hasn't had one done. We are starting believe they have some value, but they are not fool proof. Case in point is I recall reading about a respected member having good UOA's and upon an engine tear down had spent bearings.

I'm still not 100% confident in them. Having said that I would consider one if I suspected a coolant leak and couldn't find it, or I wanted to be certain my air filtration was up to par. Lastly if I planned on extending my OCI's beyond my comfort zone. They can't tell internal engine condition, or how long an engine is going to last based on wear numbers. JMO

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[Junior]

Originally Posted By: 360kid
Originally Posted By: AlanRebod

Which is entirely unscientific. You have provided no evidence that the oil was actually "spent".


I didn't realize I was in court. I have no need to provide evidence to anyone. If I look at oil and it's blacker than sin, smells burnt, and it hasn't been changed in 7,000 miles and it's conventional oil. Yeah, I'm going to change it. If you wouldn't, then that's you. And if you wouldn't change it, then I thank god you're not in charge of the maintenance on my vehicles. I think some people would agree with me there.


You have to expect a lot of push back when you post a subject with a title such as yours. By all means, change the oil whenever you want. But, throughout the entire 4 pages I have yet to see any evidence that the OLM is wrong. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of UOA that seem to indicate the OLM works just fine. I do not believe using an old past a certain number of miles is going to cause consumption to dramatically increase. What is wrong with adding a quart at 5000 miles and going on with life? And finally, color is not a indication of oil life. A hard working diesel engine will turn the oil black in a few hours after a change.

On a personal application, I had a UOA at 11,000 miles that indicated the oil had been in use too long. That sample didn't look smell or feel any different than a sample that had been run 7500 miles. At no point in that long interval did that engine start using oil. And it still does not today even after pushing a change interval too long. What it did do is tell me that with my type of duty cycle I need to keep my intervals between 7500 and about 9000 miles. Which I have done.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Junior
Originally Posted By: 360kid
Originally Posted By: AlanRebod

Which is entirely unscientific. You have provided no evidence that the oil was actually "spent".


I didn't realize I was in court. I have no need to provide evidence to anyone. If I look at oil and it's blacker than sin, smells burnt, and it hasn't been changed in 7,000 miles and it's conventional oil. Yeah, I'm going to change it. If you wouldn't, then that's you. And if you wouldn't change it, then I thank god you're not in charge of the maintenance on my vehicles. I think some people would agree with me there.


You have to expect a lot of push back when you post a subject with a title such as yours. By all means, change the oil whenever you want. But, throughout the entire 4 pages I have yet to see any evidence that the OLM is wrong. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of UOA that seem to indicate the OLM works just fine. I do not believe using an old past a certain number of miles is going to cause consumption to dramatically increase. What is wrong with adding a quart at 5000 miles and going on with life? And finally, color is not a indication of oil life. A hard working diesel engine will turn the oil black in a few hours after a change.

On a personal application, I had a UOA at 11,000 miles that indicated the oil had been in use too long. That sample didn't look smell or feel any different than a sample that had been run 7500 miles. At no point in that long interval did that engine start using oil. And it still does not today even after pushing a change interval too long. What it did do is tell me that with my type of duty cycle I need to keep my intervals between 7500 and about 9000 miles. Which I have done.


Junior has it right. Look at the UOA posted here with DINO oil and an OLM. Like I said, they are pretty accurate at calculating when conventional oil is 100% used up.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
My 1999 Malibu and 1994 Regal both had an oil level sensor that would trip a light on the dash at 1 quart low, and it checked it every time the engine was started.

I would imagine OLM equipped vehicles would still have that idiot light, and if they do, your oil level is self checking for when it hits the add line.

Case closed.

My '03 Buick has the Driver Information Center, and it displays a message in block capitals, and in English, "OIL LEVEL LOW." And it chimes to get your attention, as well.

 

[ADFD1]

Stupid question (so go easy on me): What happens when an oil like Mobil 5000 is used with the OLM? Mobil is basically telling you not to use the oil over 5000 miles. So if something were to happen beyond the 5000 miles, you'd be SOL asking Mobil for help, (no bashing intended). The OLM is calibrated for Dino oil, I would always have that in the back of my mind that the oil maker is telling you 5000 miles is the limit with that oil. So I'd be inclined to use a synthetic oil to be safe, or do a 5000 mile OCI with dino and ignore the OLM.

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[Gary Allan]

The oil maker is tell you 5000 miles like the auto maker is telling your 7500 ..like Amsoil is telling you 7500/6months with the XL line ..like Jiffy Lube and most of the blenders are telling you 3k.


That is, Mobil 5000 must meet the OEM requirements to even be put in the engine.

 

[AlanRebod]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Stupid question (so go easy on me): What happens when an oil like Mobil 5000 is used with the OLM? Mobil is basically telling you not to use the oil over 5000 miles. So if something were to happen beyond the 5000 miles, you'd be SOL asking Mobil for help, (no bashing intended). The OLM is calibrated for Dino oil, I would always have that in the back of my mind that the oil maker is telling you 5000 miles is the limit with that oil. So I'd be inclined to use a synthetic oil to be safe, or do a 5000 mile OCI with dino and ignore the OLM.

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http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_5000_FAQs.aspx#FAQs2

 

[ADFD1]

Got it thanks!

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