GM OLM dead wrong

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: FastSUV

But had it not been for me she would have pushed it on to 9k (or whatever the OLM said was okay), and most likely ran it way low on oil. How can they have such an animal for soccer moms who do not check their oil between oil changes???


So for those who do not check their oil between oil changes, are you confident it was completely full the whole time since the last oil change? I doubt the car leaks or burns oil, it was probably underfilled at the last change. But without checking it (not even once!) its impossible to verify.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Fast, I don't think you are going to get a lot of support here for someone who won't check their oil levels, especially after driving that many miles. The amount of usage you described is pretty much normal. In fact, it's pretty good. If you take it to a dealer with this complaint, I guarantee they will do something. They will laugh at you.

You know what they call those millions of people who won't check their oil level? Pedestrians.

My sister drives over 60k miles a year. She also won't check her own oil. But she will go to a full service gas station and have it checked at regular intervals.

 

[Junior]

I guess we should add a section to the father handbook the requirement to teach their daughters how to check the fluids on a car.

This reminds me of one of my favorite engineering saying:

"I can't fix stupid."

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Junior
I guess we should add a section to the father handbook the requirement to teach their daughters how to check the fluids on a car.

This reminds me of one of my favorite engineering saying:

"I can't fix stupid."


We already have it. There's a reason why fathers turn into crusty harping repetitive obsessive bugging types of limited dimension from their offspring's POV. We don't have the luxury of being warm gentle people who only express good thoughts. We are locked and loaded 24/7 in a defensive posture to prevent them from learning things the hard way. They tend to resist.

 

[BR549]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: crinkles
case closed... keep it topped up... the OLM does not check oil levels.



I NEVER said it does...I realize that, but if you are gonna have an OLM that can go so many miles between changes, then there should be another reminder to check the oil for the "sheep" that do not belong to this board that do not check their oil. I am sure the oil light would come on if it was very low, but the OP is because the OLM is wrong to recommend such a long interval on dino to begin with & even wronger to do so when a car is gonna burn up half its oil between changes despite being a newer car.


You're blaming one of the greater technological advancements for not being able to "fix" defective human behavior. I guess they should have had a sensor attached to the dipstick that, if undisturbed for 3k/3m/, flashed a light on the dash to prompt the operator to check the oil ...that he/she too would ignore.

It's much easier to spend over an hour (assume that it requires an appointment and the loss of the car for the day if not a quick lube) and spend $25+ whatever they can rip you for, instead of pulling one handle ...lifting one hood, pulling one dipstick, and reading the level.

Perhaps I should open something like those old Photomat booths at shopping centers and charge people $1 to do that.


+1

 

[mcrn]

Sorry but it is user error.

 

[peterdaniel]

1) teach your girlfriend how to check her own oil

2) don't ever rely on technology that does things incorrectly. The OLM is at BEST a guess.. a suggestion and until it comes with a built in laboratory in your car, its foolish to believe it 100%.

3) Car manufacturers are rolling the dice, trying to make their cars look like they need less maintenance and cost less to own, all at the expense of the longevity of the car. Do these OLM things work? Yes, the do. but they are just like a broken clock where they are right a couple of times, but they are still broken.

4) What the [censored] is so [censored] hard with picking a OCI and sticking to it. Stock up on 4 or 5 filters and proper oil for your particular car and just change it at the mileage you have chosen.


just in case #4 is too hard for you to understand, here's an example

My work vehicle is a Honda Element. It has 102K miles on it.

I use PP or Mobil 1 and a PureOne filter or a Fram Extended Guard.
I change it every 9k miles.

Honda uses no oil in between but I still check it every fill up or in the morning before I go out for the day.

Simple

 

[peterdaniel]

Also, relying on the OLM is like saying that you won't look first before you get out of an elevator because it should always stop where its "supposed to"

 

[360kid]

Originally Posted By: AlanRebod
Originally Posted By: 360kid
Those Oil Monitors in GM's just plain suck. My dad has a Chevy Colorado. I changed the oil in his truck last weekend because his oil was toast and smelled burnt. He had gone well over 7000 miles and the OLM still said over 30% left. This is way too many miles on conventional oil.

I couldn't believe my dad was going that long between oil changes. He's a retired mechanic after all. He knew it had been over 7000 miles, but the Chevy dealer told him to follow the OLM on this model. So, against better judgment, he listened.

Anyways, I put in PP just in case he went that long again. At least he would have a better oil in there that can handle the long interval. I also put a sticker in his window and told him to call me at 5000 miles and I would change it regardless of what the OLM said. I ignore the OLM in my wifes Malibu too. They are completely worthless in the GM's.


On what basis is your subjective analysis of the scent of used oil an accurate gauge of the amount of life remaining?

Jeez, why are we paying Blackstone for oil analysis when we could be sniffing our oil?

I don't need Blackstone to tell me when oil is way past due. Believe it or not, people knew when to change oil long before Blackstone came around. I don't need a chemical analysis to tell me the milk in the fridge is spoiled and I don't need a UOA to tell me when to change oil.

 

[MGregoir]

My 1999 Malibu and 1994 Regal both had an oil level sensor that would trip a light on the dash at 1 quart low, and it checked it every time the engine was started.

I would imagine OLM equipped vehicles would still have that idiot light, and if they do, your oil level is self checking for when it hits the add line.

Case closed.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
2) don't ever rely on technology that does things incorrectly. The OLM is at BEST a guess.. a suggestion and until it comes with a built in laboratory in your car, its foolish to believe it 100%.

3) Car manufacturers are rolling the dice, trying to make their cars look like they need less maintenance and cost less to own, all at the expense of the longevity of the car. Do these OLM things work? Yes, the do. but they are just like a broken clock where they are right a couple of times, but they are still broken.


While I would never depend on technology always doing its job, I disagree with most of what you said above.

GM spent millions to develop and validate this system. It is, by far, the most intelligent manner to gauge oil change intervals. Mileage is numb to just about everything. It has to be configured to "averages" and account for many variables that are unknown. That means you build stupid person safety margins into them. You have to put too much ambiguity into your recommendations to determine severe service and differentiate it from "unclocked miles" vs. severe vs. incidental/marginal use. The end user has to figure their percentages of each service ..throw in impressions and leanings ..fear factors ...and all the other stuff that makes us the most dominate species on the planet. When all else fails ..over do it.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

GM spent millions to develop and validate this system. It is, by far, the most intelligent manner to gauge oil change intervals.


Of course, smelling the oil is always an option!

 

[AlanRebod]

Originally Posted By: 360kid
Originally Posted By: AlanRebod
Originally Posted By: 360kid
Those Oil Monitors in GM's just plain suck. My dad has a Chevy Colorado. I changed the oil in his truck last weekend because his oil was toast and smelled burnt. He had gone well over 7000 miles and the OLM still said over 30% left. This is way too many miles on conventional oil.

I couldn't believe my dad was going that long between oil changes. He's a retired mechanic after all. He knew it had been over 7000 miles, but the Chevy dealer told him to follow the OLM on this model. So, against better judgment, he listened.

Anyways, I put in PP just in case he went that long again. At least he would have a better oil in there that can handle the long interval. I also put a sticker in his window and told him to call me at 5000 miles and I would change it regardless of what the OLM said. I ignore the OLM in my wifes Malibu too. They are completely worthless in the GM's.


On what basis is your subjective analysis of the scent of used oil an accurate gauge of the amount of life remaining?

Jeez, why are we paying Blackstone for oil analysis when we could be sniffing our oil?

I don't need Blackstone to tell me when oil is way past due. Believe it or not, people knew when to change oil long before Blackstone came around. I don't need a chemical analysis to tell me the milk in the fridge is spoiled and I don't need a UOA to tell me when to change oil.


Whatever dude. If you think you know oil life better than the engineers, chemists, and tribologists, then go for it! Just don't get any oil up your nose.

 

[SilverGGA]

User error.

 

[HM12460]

c'mon on now, you guys! i sniffed my oil the other day, and lo and behold yesterday the olm sez to change oil! what do ya think about that?? btw, i use pennzoil yb and my silverado is very happy with it.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: HM12460
c'mon on now, you guys! i sniffed my oil the other day, and lo and behold yesterday the olm sez to change oil! what do ya think about that?? btw, i use pennzoil yb and my silverado is very happy with it.


I think you need a lesson in English.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: HM12460
c'mon on now, you guys! i sniffed my oil the other day, and lo and behold yesterday the olm sez to change oil! what do ya think about that?? btw, i use pennzoil yb and my silverado is very happy with it.


Whale DaHAYEM!! I guess the sniffer can be as good as an OLM.

 

[lucerne06]

Subject:Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines #01-06-01-011C - (12/13/2006)



Models:All 1998-2007 GM Passenger Cars and Gasoline Powered Light Duty Trucks Under 8500 LB GVW (Including Saturn)2003-2007 HUMMER H22006-2007 HUMMER H32005-2007 Saab 9-7X





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to add the 2007 model year. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011B (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).

Important: Certain 2006 and 2007 models have a new GM Extended Warranty. Please refer to the appropriate Owner's Manual for warranty information.

This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or 80,450 km (50,000 mi) for Cadillac, driven at legal speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.

Important: This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks). Oil consumption for vehicles driven under these conditions will be more.

Many factors can affect a customer's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.

Gasket and External Leaks
Inspect the oil pan and engine covers for leakage due to over-tightened, damaged, or out of place gaskets. Inspect oil lines and fittings for signs of leakage.

Improper Reading of the Oil Level Indicator (Dipstick)
Verify that the dipstick tube is fully seated in the block. When checking the oil level, make sure the dipstick is wiped clean before taking an oil level reading and fully depress the dipstick until the shoulder bottoms out on the dipstick tube. The dipstick should be the proper part number for the engine/vehicle that is being checked.

Important: Refer to Owner Manual in SI for checking and adding engine oil.

Not Waiting Long Enough After Running Engine to Check Oil Level
Some engines require more time than others for the oil to drain back into the crankcase. To assure a sufficient amount of oil has drained back to the crankcase, and an accurate reading can be obtained, the vehicle should be allowed to sit for at least 15 minutes, after the engine has been shut off, before taking an oil level reading. In order to ensure accurate results, the temperature of the oil should be close to the same temperature as the last time the oil level was checked.

Important: This does not apply to 2006 and 2007 Corvette ZO6 equipped with the 7.0L LS7 engine (dry sump). Follow the instructions in the Owner's Manual for checking the oil in this application.

Improper Oil Fill After an Oil Change
Following an oil change, verify that the proper amount and type of oil was put in the engine and that the oil level on the dipstick is not above the full mark or below the add marks. Refer to the Owner's Manual or Service Manual for information on recommended oil quantity, viscosity, and quality.

Aggressive Driving, High Speed or High RPM Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds/high RPMs will increase oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected.

Towing or Heavy Usage
Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the engine, especially at highway speeds, and thus increases the rate of oil consumption.

Crankcase Ventilation System
Verify that the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is operating properly. Blockages, restrictions, or damage to the PCV system can result in increased oil use.

Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
On vehicles that are usually driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil consumption.

Engine Temperature
If an engine is run at overheated temperatures (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual) for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper working order.

Engine Wear
Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn, damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will all cause an increase in oil consumption.

Measurement of Oil Consumption
Engines require a period of time to BREAK IN so that moving parts are properly seated. Therefore, oil economy should not be tested until the vehicle has accumulated at least 6400 km (4000 mi). An exception would be allowed only if an engine is reported to be using more than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 1600 km (1000 mi).

Verify that the engine has no external leaks. Repair as necessary.
Verify that the engine is at normal operating temperature (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual).
Park the vehicle on a level surface.
Wait at least 15 minutes, after the engine is shut off, before checking the oil level to make sure that the oil has had time to drain back into the crankcase.
Verify that the oil level is at, but not above, the full mark on the dipstick, and that the proper viscosity and quality oil are being used as recommended in the Owner's Manual.
Record the vehicle mileage, date, and exact oil level on the form included in this bulletin.
Ask the customer to verify the oil level, each time the vehicle is fueled, following steps 1-6 and return the vehicle to the dealership if the oil level is found at or below the add mark, 0.946 liter (1 qt) low. If the oil level remains above the add mark, the customer should continue to operate the vehicle and verify the engine oil level until 3200 km (2000 mi) has accumulated before returning to the dealership for a final evaluation.
If the final evaluation shows that the engine uses more than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi), follow the published symptom diagnostics as described in the appropriate Service Manual. If the oil consumption test shows that the engine uses less than 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi), explain to the customer that their engine meets the guidelines for oil consumption.

 

[FastSUV]

Originally Posted By: ArrestMeRedZ
Fast, I don't think you are going to get a lot of support here for someone who won't check their oil levels, especially after driving that many miles. The amount of usage you described is pretty much normal. In fact, it's pretty good. If you take it to a dealer with this complaint, I guarantee they will do something. They will laugh at you.

You know what they call those millions of people who won't check their oil level? Pedestrians.

My sister drives over 60k miles a year. She also won't check her own oil. But she will go to a full service gas station and have it checked at regular intervals.



There are WAY TOO many responses for me to quote & answer them all. I am getting hammered here with a FEW people who do see my point without attacking. I am actually with you guys for the most part (even the attackers), but on my G/F previous car, she had been doing the 3k quick lube place (before we got together) and had never needed to check the oil between changes.

Sometime after we got together, I increased her interval on her old Camry to 4k and then sometimes 5k all on dino. But she has never had a car that would go 9k before the factory OLM system told her it needed to be changed. I am frustrated because explaining this to someone who is not car savoy (unlike all of us), is hard because she got a new car and wants to drive it and change the oil when needed; just like her old car. But the difference is that the old car was going 3k on dino most of its life, and this car wants to tell her to go 9k-ish and that introduces extra work in her haing to check the oil (or myself) and in her mind I think she wants to just drive it and change it like she did with her old car. Understandibly, an owner should know how to check oil and she does, but would rather drive as far as she can without having to add oil unless she was in a POS '79 chevy pickup that burned oil due to a mechanical problem.

This car is 1yr old, and runs & drives perfect; in fact it is a joy to drive. I doubt that there is something wrong with the motor; rather going 7k on Mobil 5000 dino is most likely the cause of it being low on oil because GM's OLM seems to think the car can go that long on dino.

MANY members here say that 5k is about the max they would go on dino and so does Mobil 5000 oil.

I now suspect that the reason that the OLM can go so long on dino is because over the course of 9k, you practically add 50% new oil in the crank case LOL.

But again, I am one who DOES check his own oil regularly but I like to find intervals where I change the oil before I have to add any (usually between 3-5k) on my vehicles.

I do appreciate the input guys; despite the controversy; hopefully some of you that take the time to re-read the post will understand where I coming from. I CHECK MY OIL & HERS. But nobdy should be going 9k on dino if it is enough time to burn off a significant amount of oil. I read me manual but most people don't...you all know that.

NOW HAVING SAID ALL THAT...I think Jeep has it right. My dad has an '08 SRT-8 and I copied this page from his manual today and it says 6k TOPS. His takes M-1 0w40 and I am kinda upset that the dealer forces him to change it every 3k and he believes them over me, but aside from that, I wanted to illustrate what I wish her manual said. instead of a 9k OLM, if it just said every 6k, then I would have her run it and it would use maybe just under a QT of oil per OCI and we wold not be having this post.

I will probably solve this issue by changing it at 50% with dino from now on. OR AT LEAST topping it off on cue at 50% like one post above said he did for his father's Colorado. But if I decide to go the 50% top-off route, I will most likely use PP instead of dino. But just think of all the poor cars that will be traded in and have been run low on oil due to lack of owner knowledge or responsibility to check the oil on a regular basis duw to the insane GM dino OLM recommendations.

 

[360kid]

Originally Posted By: AlanRebod
Originally Posted By: 360kid
Originally Posted By: AlanRebod
Originally Posted By: 360kid
Those Oil Monitors in GM's just plain suck. My dad has a Chevy Colorado. I changed the oil in his truck last weekend because his oil was toast and smelled burnt. He had gone well over 7000 miles and the OLM still said over 30% left. This is way too many miles on conventional oil.

I couldn't believe my dad was going that long between oil changes. He's a retired mechanic after all. He knew it had been over 7000 miles, but the Chevy dealer told him to follow the OLM on this model. So, against better judgment, he listened.

Anyways, I put in PP just in case he went that long again. At least he would have a better oil in there that can handle the long interval. I also put a sticker in his window and told him to call me at 5000 miles and I would change it regardless of what the OLM said. I ignore the OLM in my wifes Malibu too. They are completely worthless in the GM's.


On what basis is your subjective analysis of the scent of used oil an accurate gauge of the amount of life remaining?

Jeez, why are we paying Blackstone for oil analysis when we could be sniffing our oil?

I don't need Blackstone to tell me when oil is way past due. Believe it or not, people knew when to change oil long before Blackstone came around. I don't need a chemical analysis to tell me the milk in the fridge is spoiled and I don't need a UOA to tell me when to change oil.


Whatever dude. If you think you know oil life better than the engineers, chemists, and tribologists, then go for it! Just don't get any oil up your nose.


Didn't say I knew more than engineers and chemists. Blackstone offers a great service. I am saying that I don't need them to tell me when oil has seen better days. God gave you eyes, ears, a nose, and even a brain. People have been using their senses and logic long before Blackstone. I don't need to pay a UOA service money to tell me when to change the oil. I can do that on my own, as can most knowledgable car owners. Now, if I need to know the iron content of my oil, then I may need Blackstone.

Don't give me a hard time because you can't check your own oil without a UOA.