GM Did It Again! Volt discussion thread

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Just the Facts:

* Despite promises that the Chevy Volt will operate as an electric car at all times, it will in fact at times be directly driven in part by its internal combustion engine.
* The mechanical link between Ecotec internal combustion engine and drive wheels will be at high speed.


DETROIT — It's the big headline currently on GM's media news site:

"2011 Chevrolet Volt Reinvents Automotive Transportation IN A Complete No Compromises Electric Package"

Um, well, no. Even conceding that all engineering projects involve compromise and chalking that phrase up to marketing hyperbole, the Chevy Volt isn't as electric as GM pretends it is. And it isn't as electric as GM has been saying for the past three years. You know, GM statements like this one:

"The Chevrolet Volt is not a hybrid. It is a one-of-a-kind, all-electrically driven vehicle designed and engineered to operate in all climates."

In fact the Chevy Volt is a hybrid and it has more in common with conventional "parallel" hybrids like the Toyota Prius than the marketing hype led us to believe. There are circumstances in which the Volt operates with the internal combustion engine directly driving the front wheels. That's right, like a Prius.

At the heart of the Volt is the "Voltec" propulsion system and the heart of Voltec is the "4ET50" electric drive unit that contains a pair of electric motors and a "multi-mode transaxle with continuously variable capacity." This is how GM describes it:

"Unlike a conventional powertrain, there are no step gears within the unit, and no direct mechanical linkage from the engine, through the drive unit to the wheels."

The 4ET50 is, however, in fact directly bolted to the 1.4-liter, four-cylinder Ecotec internal combustion engine. When the Volt's lithium-ion battery pack runs down, clutches in the 4ET50 engage and the Ecotec engine is lashed to the generator to produce the electric power necessary to drive the car. However under certain circumstances — speeds near or above 70 mph — in fact the engine will directly drive the front wheels in conjunction with the electric motors.

As in the Prius, the Volt's drivetrain includes a planetary gear set that acts as a transmission. The intricacies of planetary gears are many, but in rough terms each element (electric engines and internal combustion engine) of the Prius or Volt drivetrains are hooked up to different elements of the gear set. In the Volt, its Ecotec engine is clutched to the outer ring gear and as the car's speed reaches the edge of efficiency for the electric motor, that ring is set from its normally rigid mounting in the 4ET50's case and allowed to spin. That has the Ecotec driving the front wheels.

The Volt's Vehicle Line Engineer Doug Park confirmed that there is, on occasion, a direct mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and drive wheels in an interview with Norman Mayersohn of The New York Times. This isn't idle speculation or educated inference, it's an admitted fact.

What's vexing here is that GM hasn't been forthright in explaining this. It's not like this sort of operation isn't an integral part of the Volt's drivetrain — the engineering team has to have known this is how the car would work for a while now. But even today, GM's press releases and consumer information insist that the Volt is always and solely electrically driven. That's simply not true.

Frankly, we were lied to. Back in June, John O'Dell who edits Edmunds.com's eco-obsessed sister site The Green Car Advisor reported on rumors that last minute revisions would have the Volt using a direct mechanical connection between its Ecotec engine and drive wheels. So O'Dell asked GM's spokesman Robert Petersen directly if the rumors were true. Petersen clearly denied the rumors and insisted the Volt (and its European brother the Opel Ampera) would be driven solely by electricity.

Inside Line says: Don't believe everything GM says. No matter how many times they say it.— John Pearley Huffman, Correspondent


http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/gm-lied-chevy-volt-is-not-a-true-ev.html
 
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Ah yes the GM haters on this site are probably melting their keyboards by typing so fast!
 
Give me a break. Don't you think there probably would be some minor & major engineering changes as more long term testing was done. How would it look in the press if the Volt was found to not to be able to cruise down the Hwy at 70 mph all day long? GM & the other manufacturers are blazing a new trail developing electric/hybrid cars that operate just as good as present day vehicles. There will be mis-steps and problems along the way.

Dave
 
" direct mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and drive wheels "

First I've heard that. But, I'll not have an opinion until I have facts about how it performs.
 
Originally Posted By: css9450
Ah yes the GM haters on this site are probably melting their keyboards by typing so fast!


*shrug* I like the fact that GM is taking the technological steps in this direction that they are. I don't see what would be wrong with just stating up front what it is, though. There is nothing wrong with hybrid technology, and we are years (I'd say maybe a decade) away from a true electric car that can operate on par with even an Aveo.

The technology is relatively new, while internal combustion engines have a century's worth of ground to catch up to. I don't expect GM or any other company to do it overnight. I just like seeing continued progress in that direction.

-Spyder
 
Well that's a bummer, but honestly, not unexpected. Making a true EV is... um... hard. But, GM should not have blazed this trail and made all these statements until they were sure they could do it. Proof of concept, in this case, just isn't enough. They had some test cars running around, I guess the tests didn't go well.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
" direct mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and drive wheels "

First I've heard that. But, I'll not have an opinion until I have facts about how it performs.


Maybe they should have a hydraulic connection between the engine and drive wheels..or a motor-generator setup. Would that make the naysayers happy? Neither would be as efficient as a direct mechanical connection, however.
 
Originally Posted By: bmod305
Give me a break. Don't you think there probably would be some minor & major engineering changes as more long term testing was done.


Bit of an understatement, don't you think? Seems like a completely different car to me??


Originally Posted By: bmod305
GM & the other manufacturers are blazing a new trail developing electric/hybrid cars that operate just as good as present day vehicles.


Well, that's the big ??. What competitive advantage does this have over the Prius or the Fusion? For some people, it will probably be a fully electric car. For others, it could be a worst of both worlds since it doesn't re-capture any of the lost energy like other hybrids. I don't really see this car as "trail-blazing" considering the existing options. Competitive? maybe. "Trail-blazing"? Not in my opinion.

Originally Posted By: bmod305
There will be mis-steps and problems along the way.

Dave


This seems like a pretty big mis-step to me, particularly given that it was hyped so much as being superior to other hybrids since it didn't have a combustion engine...
 
I was riding the train the other day and after listening to the diesel electric locomotive, I began to wonder why no one has made a diesel/electric hybrid like that.

I mean the locomotive had what sounded like 2 engine speeds. Idle and power. It's rpm sounded consistant regardless of train speed. You could hear the load on the diesel change but the rpm seemed consistant.

Wouldn't having essentially a stationary diesel engine make emissions much easier to pass? And it should increase the reliability of the already reliable diesel.

I know there are faults to the diesel electric. Thermodynamic losses etc... but you get 100% torque availiable at 0 rpm of the electric motor.

Is it cost? Surely such an arrangement can't be that much more expensive than a huge bank of LiIon batteries.

Just curious...
 
So let's see, we have locomotives that can pull 100's of freight cars at speeds over 70MPH without a mechanical connection from the engine to the drive wheels, but this technology is not available for cars.

So I'm supposed to believe that we are unable to combine technologies that are all decades old into a motor vehicle that can operate on battery power, or generate sufficient electricity at speed to drive 70+ MPH, but we can drive trains hauling much more at those same speeds.

I realize trains probably don't store any of the electricity. But isn't that simply an add-on to the existing technologies?

Not hating on GM, I just don't buy the argument that we don't have the technical know-how to do this.
 
great minds....
crackmeup2.gif
 
I'm confused...long ago GM said it would get something like 245 miles per GALLON so there must have been plans for some gasoline usage from the beginning??

John
 
Just think..if they can't even do that..or just tell the truth upfront I wonder what else Bull Excretement their putting out?
 
Yes, those who were thinking it wouldn't have an engine at all didn't understand the product.

However, those who "thought" they understood what GM was saying were given the impression by GM's own words that the engine would not be mechanically connected to the drive wheels.

Instead, the engine would drive a generator similar to the locomotive, so it could be tuned for maximum efficiency at the speed chosen to generate electricity.

This combined with the battery and the ability to capture energy when the vehicle slows with regenerative braking and, IIRC the ability to plug in to charge off the grid, gave the car exceptional low gasoline usage relative to current offerings.
 
Frankly, to cruise any sort of time over 70 MPH I would WANT an IC engine.

Li-ion batteries have great specific energy and power, but I would not want to deplete them too deeply, too fast. It is a matter of the capabilities of the current SOA for Li-ion batteries, NOT GM engineering... OK I take that back - they could have made the pack much larger so the cells operate at a lower rate, and all would be well... And then people would have gripes over that too.

It is all about balance. No matter what anyone says, this car is just a prototype until items outside of GM's control can be solved.
 
Trains also use dynamic braking but use the generators to slow the train by producing current that goes to resistors (as I recall) that give off the energy as heat out the top of the locomotive. This could be captured by batteries in a car. Also, I believe there were buses that operated like locomotives, uusing an engine to run a generator that in turn ran an electric motor that drove the wheels.
 
I suspect that one of biggest hurdles in production of an acceptable all-electric car is climate control. Keeping the occupants comfortable, especially in winter up north would deplete a bank of batteries in short order....an onboard gas fired heat source is the obvious answer.

I've never seen this discussed before.
 
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