German engines least reliable; Japanese at top

[Johnny2Bad]

I find Big3 V8's to be superbly reliable. In fact I've never had an engine failure in more than 35 years of driving, and that's buying used (120~180,000 Miles) and wearing the things out (I keep a vehicle on average 8 years). But they go to the wreckers with perfectly good motors and transmissions.

Mazda ... not mentioned in the survey at all ... I had a 4-banger 1.6l Mazda with 280,000 miles on the clock when I bought it. I bought a replacement motor for it on the assumption that it would need to be replaced. In the meantime (as this is the most economical route) I ran the old mill, waiting for it to fail. It never did. After six years I got tired of that and put the 1.8l in anyway.

Whatever you own, just do some basic maintenance and run the thing. Some people worry too much.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Yet if you have 2.4 in the Honda CR-V. It leaks a crazy amount of gas into the oil. Yet no engine problem? Right...


That IS a problem. I'd make Honda fix it. Get corporate involved. I have done that more than once.

 

[jeepman3071]

The higher the complexity the more points for failure. This will only increase with direct injection, complex turbo chargers, start/stop, and infotainment additions.

 

[OneEyeJack]

I've done database and ANN (Artificial Neural Network) work for several warranty companies and a few fleet operators. The definition of "failure" is often defined in broad terms as the failure of the vehicle to start and drive to a destination or to continue to operate, that is keep moving once started. Failures were then subdivided based on details of the exact problem(s). The operator often could care less what the problem might be, they did not get where they wanted to go, hence a failure.

Alex_v brings up an important observation. Some cars by their vary nature get hammered while others get pampered.

One particular class of vehicles has absolutely the worst record of repair and reliability and generally speaking are very expensive, that is V12 sedans, specifically the BMW and Mercedes. They are a double edged problem. Their reliability is terrible and the repairs are out of this world expensive and nobody but the dealer will work on them if they have any sense.

On the other end of scale are the rice rockets that get more than hammered. The only saving grace in such reporting is that these car owners often accept the idea that there is no such thing as warranty coverage for their car once it gets fixed up.

 

[veryHeavy]

Since this is a warranty company, they define "engine breakdown" as when they have to spend money repairing it. It would have to be VERY significant if a Honda failure only occurs 1 out of 344 engines.
Quote:
Dude, that is a link to a study in the UK....

"Dude" I said I would like to see other Reliability studies. Do you have one you think would be better? Please share it.

If you don't have one, well then I'll just use this UK one, because it's all I have. (Also I'm not sure the obsession over diesel engines? We have lots of diesel engines in the U.S., and gasoline engines, and they are identical to the ones in the UK.)

 

[veryHeavy]

I'd say Audi, VW, BMW's 1.9 to 2.2% failure rate (versus Honda's 0.3%) is significant. That means German engines are 6 to 7 times more failure prone than Honda engines.
Quote:
Mazda ... not mentioned in the survey at all ...

Mazda is not in the top 10, or the bottom 10, so it is somewhere in the middle (i.e. average quality). Here's a database that includes the WHOLE car not just the engine: http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

TEN BEST MODELS
1 Mitsubishi Lancer 4.00
2 Toyota iQ 4.00
3 Honda Jazz 5.00
4 Honda Insight 7.00
5 Nissan Almera Tino 12.00
6 Hyundai i10 12.00
7 Mercedes-Benz CLC 14.00
8 Mazda MX-5 15.00
9 CHEVROLET KALOS 16.00
10 Ford Ka 16.00

TEN WORST MODELS
1 Nissan GT-R 626.00
2 Mercedes-Benz GL 533.00
3 Bentley Continental GT 502.00
4 Mercedes-Benz R-Class 490.00
5 Audi Q7 426.00
6 Mercedes-Benz M-Class 409.00
7 BMW M3 408.00
8 Skoda Superb 360.00
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 359.00
10 BMW 7 Series 350.00

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Here's the image from the article


Based on this, the misleading title of the thread should read "MG Rover least reliable, Japanese top the most reliable list in UK". The difference between VW on the "least reliable" list at 1.91% and Nissan on the "most reliable" list at 1.32% is generally insignificant. However MG Rover at 7.88% is a real stand-out.

 

[Shannow]

Here's the first round of the thread.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4257601/Re:_VW/Audi_Have_Highest_Engin

It's an aftermarket warranty insurance company issuing statistics on what it's paid out against.

Nothing describing what an "engine failure" is (Crank position sensor, or leg out of bed).

 

[Wolf359]

Mercedes and others generally have lots of tech that can fail. Also if they're only going up to 2012, that probably covers the Mercedes M272 engine which came out in 2004 and up to about 2007 had bad balance shafts and just going by the serial numbers, could have affected almost 470k engines. Repair costs were in the $4-7k range because you had to take the engine out to replace the balance shafts which were only a few hundred dollars. People who don't know any better are still buying cars from that age and running into that problem, problem could appear anywhere from 40-120k. I still see ads online from people who claim that the car runs fine but there's a CEL light on and they assume it's nothing, but they must really know that it's a sign the engine is starting to go and it will only get worse over the next few thousand miles.

 

[fdcg27]

You might just as well have titled this repeat of a previous thread "Appliances Have Fewer Problems Than Do Entertaining Cars".
There's probably also some selection bias involved, in that if I'm a HondaYota buyer, I probably don't drive very hard while if I buy a BMW or a nice turbo VAG, I probably will. After all, why else have one? Additionally, if I buy a car known for high repair costs, it might make more sense for me to spring for a third-party repair scheme than it would if I bought a more pedestrian car.
Finally, many of us on here have owned a number of cars from the US, the EU and Japan so we know that any of these engines can be quite reliable and durable. A good BMW motor is as good as it gets in my experience and many US engines have proven very durable in my hands. Japanese designs have also always been good in my experience, but mine is not mirrored by every owner of every car.
Not sure how much a second thread based on figures from a UK third party warranty provider covering engines mostly not sold here means to us in this country.
Click bait I guess.

 

[KenO]

What a [censored] poor list. I've NEVER had a BMW engine failure, and you couldn't pry my wonderfully built BMWs out of my cold dead hands. VW, otoh, is the largest automaker in the world.....and they're junk.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: KenO
What a [censored] poor list. I've NEVER had a BMW engine failure, and you couldn't pry my wonderfully built BMWs out of my cold dead hands. VW, otoh, is the largest automaker in the world.....and they're junk.


I agree with you. I know a guy who has a 1985 BMW (can't remember the model) that has between 200,000-300,000 miles on it. Still tight as a drum and runs like new!! They listed Mitsubishi in that list,my two 3000GT's were the best cars I ever had. A friend of mine has a Stealth. He wrote the book on abusing cars. It has over 300,000 miles,it's been physically rolled (I honestly don't know how the glass survived!),it's an automatic and he drives it like a standard haha,keeps it at constant redline,takes it "off roading",and it just doesn't give up. I'm totally amazed the way he treats that car and it just keeps on going!! Maybe the GTX 20W50 is what keeps it alive haha.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: KenO
What a [censored] poor list. I've NEVER had a BMW engine failure, and you couldn't pry my wonderfully built BMWs out of my cold dead hands. VW, otoh, is the largest automaker in the world.....and they're junk.


Same here with regards to BMW engine reliability; three of mine have anywhere from 110,000 miles to 192,000 miles on them. That said, I realize personal experience is always trumped by internet hearsay...

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Since this is a warranty company, they define "engine breakdown" as when they have to spend money repairing it. It would have to be VERY significant if a Honda failure only occurs 1 out of 344 engines.
Quote:
Dude, that is a link to a study in the UK....

"Dude" I said I would like to see other Reliability studies. Do you have one you think would be better? Please share it.

If you don't have one, well then I'll just use this UK one, because it's all I have. (Also I'm not sure the obsession over diesel engines? We have lots of diesel engines in the U.S., and gasoline engines, and they are identical to the ones in the UK.)


What do you use it for exactly?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: KenO
What a [censored] poor list. I've NEVER had a BMW engine failure, and you couldn't pry my wonderfully built BMWs out of my cold dead hands. VW, otoh, is the largest automaker in the world.....and they're junk.


Same here with regards to BMW engine reliability; three of mine have anywhere from 110,000 miles to 192,000 miles on them. That said, I realize personal experience is always trumped by internet hearsay...


This is a classic thread over at Fatwallet, short version instead of 17 pages is that her BMW /M3 died after only 72k miles. It was going to be 25k to replace the engine. They bought it back.

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1283276

 

[02SE]

I currently own two BMW vehicles, and have owned several in the past. And have worked on many more. Generally, the engines are fairly robust. The Nikasil issue in the 90's was an exception. It's usually other areas where they tend to have issues.

I'll say this for my current BMW's: they both see redline regularly, but only after reaching operating temperature, and they are meticulously maintained.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted By: Starman2112
The best engines are Japanese? No sh!t. Yet some still refuse to believe it. Hey, did you guys hear we landed on the moon?


Well said!

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Yet if you have 2.4 in the Honda CR-V. It leaks a crazy amount of gas into the oil. Yet no engine problem? Right...

NO engine failures? These are statistics. Yes it is possible for individual engines to fail. BTW the K24 may be the best most reliable engine on the planet.

Careful your prejudice is showing

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
While reliable, all 5 Toyota's I've owned were oil burners that eventually required service because of consumption.


Sounds to me like YOU'RE doing something wrong...

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
While reliable, all 5 Toyota's I've owned were oil burners that eventually required service because of consumption.


Sounds to me like YOU'RE doing something wrong...


I believe what he said. Many Toyotas are known oil burners. Camrys, Corollas, etc of certain years. Heck my GF's Prius needed a quart per 1000 miles and its a hybrid! The dealer claimed it was normal and that only a quart per 800 miles would be a reason for a rebuild. She sold the car.