Gas vs electric hot water tank costs?

[Rmay635703]

Another thing to remember is that some of the very inefficient electric water heaters can have extraordinarily long lifespans if you have the right water and replace the sacrificial rod occasionally.

I’ve encountered a few from the 1960’s still in active use.

The cost of power usually dwarfs the installation costs but most water heaters fail unexpectedly with water all over.

Worth including in the calculations

 

[oil pan 4]

not really a tie. hpwh vs electric for me full payback in less than 3 years conservatively. (on a regular priced HPWH)
And dehumidifies my basement which is needed 8 months of the year. = basically net 0 energy for hot water 8 months of the year vs running a dehumidifier.
I also have extremely cheap natural gas so heating the house is still very inexpensive.
Last year's january gas bill was around $70 with a 44$ connection fee= usage of $26
The HPWH I had previously died due to bad installation and rusted out at the cold water inlet. 8 years IIRC.. the heat pump part was fine.

A direct vent natural gas water heater was 2900 installed... I bought and installed the HPWH for $350

In many cases they are a good option.

I have a buddy who was having dampness in his basement during the summer. His central air conditioner was in the basement too, we opened up the ducting to suck basement air and turned off the dehumidifiers. The cool basement air going into the A/C and no dehumidifier saved him nearly a hundred dollars per month in electricity in the summer.

 

[oil pan 4]

Another thing to remember is that some of the very inefficient electric water heaters can have extraordinarily long lifespans if you have the right water and replace the sacrificial rod occasionally.

I’ve encountered a few from the 1960’s still in active use.

The cost of power usually dwarfs the installation costs but most water heaters fail unexpectedly with water all over.

Worth including in the calculations

They fail unexpectedly and at the worst time.

 

[Donald]

My Bradford White gas hot water tank is likely due for replacement soon (~13 years old) so I've been exploring my options. I've already replaced the circuit board on the Honeywell gas control valve as well as the pilot assembly, but annoyingly, I cannot service the anode rod easily as it is integrated with the hot water outlet.

I was considering switching to electric or a hybrid heat pump and ditching gas altogether since we have a heat pump now. Plus, the majority of our electricity is from hydro so I can feel warm and fuzzy about that too. However, when I use various calculators, gas is significantly cheaper to operate. I had assumed that there would be more financial incentive to stop using gas, with the whole push to electrify everything. Am I missing something?

Calculator: https://benhollis.net/experiments/water-heaters/

Inputs:
- Natural gas: $1.39/therm ($13.16/GJ) after taxes + $0.42/day basic charge not accounted for in calculator (ie additional $154/yr cost)
- Electricity: $0.1408/kWh + $0.23/day basic charge (sunk cost)
- Cost of the hybrid heat pump reduced by $1000 rebate
- Labour not considered, likely will be a DIY install
- Prices are in CAD

View attachment 241034

Our average monthly gas consumption for hot water is 2.4 GJ, but I'm not sure how to adjust the calculator to reflect this, or convert and apply this to electric tanks with different UEFs. At $13.16/GJ and $154/yr basic cost, our annual cost for gas would be ~$530. The replacement gas tank has the same UEF as our current tank.

Regardless, I think I would stay with gas so that we can have hot water during the rare power outage (tank is atmospheric vented), but it would be nice to quantify the differences.

We went with an 80 gallon hybrid. Never have used more than 2/3 of the tank (the WIFI display tells me this info) even when filling a large jetted tub. We have it set to heat pump only. I saw no noticeable change to our electric bill going from propane hot water heater to hybrid water heater. And there are tax credits to somewhat offset the purchase cost. And I feel better burning less fossil fuel. Clearly most people can get away with a smaller tank if they don't have a wife who enjoys baths in a large jetted tub.

 

[Donald]

I have a buddy who was having dampness in his basement during the summer. His central air conditioner was in the basement too, we opened up the ducting to suck basement air and turned off the dehumidifiers. The cool basement air going into the A/C and no dehumidifier saved him nearly a hundred dollars per month in electricity in the summer.

That can be done. But the central A/C only runs when it needs to cool as determined by a thermostat on the first floor. A dehumidifier senses the RH in the basement and dehumidifies accordingly.

If the A/C handled all the humidity in the basement then the compressor in the dehumidifier should never come on

Dehumidifiers are rated in L/KWH. Maybe the one in the basement had a low L/KWH.

 

[oil pan 4]

Literally me when I hear "wifi connected heatpump hot water heater".

 

[Donald]

Literally me when I hear "wifi connected heatpump hot water heater".
View attachment 241166

There are no federal laws requiring you to connect your water heater to WIFI. But you can see how much hot water vs cold water is in tank. Or connect to the electric grid notification to save $$. Or set it on vacation mode at airport when you forgot to set it at home.

 

[SHOZ]

I use a 40 gallon propane and a two layers of added insulation on my heater out in the garage. Garage is either house temp or above 45F in the winter. But a thin layer of that reflective bubble wrap will help keep any tank warmer. I use soft water, and take out the anode rod when new. They last about 25 years.

 

[oil pan 4]

There are no federal laws requiring you to connect your water heater to WIFI. But you can see how much hot water vs cold water is in tank. Or connect to the electric grid notification to save $$. Or set it on vacation mode at airport when you forgot to set it at home.

My vacation mode is I unplug the quick disconnect electric range cord.

 

[zzyzzx]

However, when I use various calculators, gas is significantly cheaper to operate. I had assumed that there would be more financial incentive to stop using gas, with the whole push to electrify everything. Am I missing something?

You are missing the agenda part of the push to electric, but we can't talk about that here.

 

[TPK]

Water heaters are designed to last from 12-15 years. If you get more than that, you are lucky. A lot less than that, so sorry.

 

[Rmay635703]

Water heaters are designed to last from 12-15 years. If you get more than that, you are lucky. A lot less than that, so sorry.

In this area 8-12 is more likely with NG.

Just the nature of the beast, all depends on water

 

[oil pan 4]

In this area 8-12 is more likely with NG.

Just the nature of the beast, all depends on water

I saved the water heater in our house. I cleaned it out, it's from 2009. Dumped it and cleaned it very likely for the first time in 2017, put a new anode in too.
Our rental house water heater is from 2017 and the anode was almost down to the wire. I dumped the scale out and put in a fresh anode.

 

[KevinMalone]

I'd love to replace the anode in my BW tank but it's part of the hot water outlet and it hasn't been touched for 12 years. If it's seized in there and I damage the threads on the hot water outlet nipple, then I'm SOL. I hate this design

 

[zzyzzx]

I'd love to replace the anode in my BW tank but it's part of the hot water outlet and it hasn't been touched for 12 years. If it's seized in there and I damage the threads on the hot water outlet nipple, then I'm SOL. I hate this design

Even if the anode is a separate part, can't it be seized just the same?

 

[KevinMalone]

Even if the anode is a separate part, can't it be seized just the same?

Separate anode rods have a hex head so an impact usually gets them off without issue. Meanwhile, BW anodes give you nothing to work with and you're somehow supposed to remove the nipple with just a pipe wrench

 

[oil pan 4]

Separate anode rods have a hex head so an impact usually gets them off without issue. Meanwhile, BW anodes give you nothing to work with and you're somehow supposed to remove the nipple with just a pipe wrench

View attachment 241427

This is not the way.