Gambling with non-OEM brake pads?

[edyvw]

Calipers and rotors are Advics. The front calipers are a 4-pot fixed caliper. The brake booster/MC and ABS modulator is ATE(Conti).

I know calipers. Was not sure whether rotors are also Advics or ATE has some stuff there, considering they did hydraulics.

 

[edyvw]

Had a 13' Pilot AWD. A gas guzzlin monster. No matter what front rotors or pads I put on it, they all failed. Years down the line, Corporate Honda got in trouble over this. A class action lawsuit was attempted, but failed. The front OEM rotors & pads were under rated for the weight of the vehicle. There was no option to change the circumference of the rotors either. I sold the truck. Poor brake design on Honda's end. You seem to possibly be experiencing the same issue with the Sienna. I would heed edyvw's thread on this one. Sounds like he has been down the same warpy Sienna road. Best of luck.

Oh, but I own a 2009 Honda Pilot too.
It is hard to determine which one has bigger junk of brakes, the Sienna or the Pilot.
Sienna, absolutely aftermarket brakes. EBC, HAWK rotors. Not sure about Powerstop. Brembo clearly indicates that their line of rotors for Japanese vehicles and some Euro vehicles is not high carbon.
This is what also happened to me on VW Atlas. Same issue as on Sienna. Which is strange as Euro vehicles usually come with oversized, well cooled brakes. Size was there (335x30mm). I got car with 15,000k. Brand new rotors and pads. Some 5k down the road (something like that) same issue like on Sienna. Get new rotors, new pads, all OE VW at the dealership. 8k later, again same issue. Rotors are made by Brembo. It is engraved onto rotors. So, thinking it is rotor, I get ATE (which I always prefer over anything else). Whne I got ATE rotors, one thing was clear: they are MUCH darker. Cleraly, more carbon is in those rotors. I put ATE at maybe 28k, sold car with 50,000, no any indication of warping. I even kept old pads I got after I had warping for the first time around 20,000 miles.
Now, I must say, I do drive all cars to their capabilities, and many people will not push Sienna through 2-4th gear to redline uphill here in CO.

 

[50yr Street Mech]

True, you've got a point there. I did that dance for a few years. Then I fell apart, L4/5 in 2020, L3/4 two days ago. Too many years under the hood and under the car's took it's toll on my back. If you're still young, then dance with Autozone. When you start runnin into back problems, you start runnin for stuff that lasts .... I still remember knocking out 4 wheel brake jobs in an hour or so. No more. Takes me days now

 

[50yr Street Mech]

You are on to something edvw.....More carbon in the rotors. Personally, I'm done with the games. Sold that brake eating Pilot. I'm sticking with lightweight vehicles. Throw any junk on them, and their fine.

 

[iCurious]

Oh, but I own a 2009 Honda Pilot too.
It is hard to determine which one has bigger junk of brakes, the Sienna or the Pilot.
Sienna, absolutely aftermarket brakes. EBC, HAWK rotors. Not sure about Powerstop. Brembo clearly indicates that their line of rotors for Japanese vehicles and some Euro vehicles is not high carbon.
This is what also happened to me on VW Atlas. Same issue as on Sienna. Which is strange as Euro vehicles usually come with oversized, well cooled brakes. Size was there (335x30mm). I got car with 15,000k. Brand new rotors and pads. Some 5k down the road (something like that) same issue like on Sienna. Get new rotors, new pads, all OE VW at the dealership. 8k later, again same issue. Rotors are made by Brembo. It is engraved onto rotors. So, thinking it is rotor, I get ATE (which I always prefer over anything else). Whne I got ATE rotors, one thing was clear: they are MUCH darker. Cleraly, more carbon is in those rotors. I put ATE at maybe 28k, sold car with 50,000, no any indication of warping. I even kept old pads I got after I had warping for the first time around 20,000 miles.
Now, I must say, I do drive all cars to their capabilities, and many people will not push Sienna through 2-4th gear to redline uphill here in CO.

My friend also had an '09 Pilot. I installed the Duralast Gold pads and rotors and to my surprised, they had lasted 10 years, 90k+ miles.

 

[edyvw]

My friend also had an '09 Pilot. I installed the Duralast Gold pads and rotors and to my surprised, they had lasted 10 years, 90k+ miles.

Depends on driving style. I drive any car to the limit .
Most of these appliance vehicles have brakes just enough for school runs, etc. They are generally undersized bcs. it lowers unsprung weight and boosts mpg a bit. Which, in Pilot's case, is actually really important, considering how thirsty it is.
I don't drive this car at all, almost. My in-laws use it when visit. One of the worst cars I have ever had "pleasure" to drive. We kind of inherited it from in-laws. When we had to drive to CA when Southwest had that meltdown, I chose the Tiguan for 4 of us (at that time) over the Pilot.

 

[iCurious]

Depends on driving style. I drive any car to the limit .
Most of these appliance vehicles have brakes just enough for school runs, etc. They are generally undersized bcs. it lowers unsprung weight and boosts mpg a bit. Which, in Pilot's case, is actually really important, considering how thirsty it is.
I don't drive this car at all, almost. My in-laws use it when visit. One of the worst cars I have ever had "pleasure" to drive. We kind of inherited it from in-laws. When we had to drive to CA when Southwest had that meltdown, I chose the Tiguan for 4 of us (at that time) over the Pilot.

Exactly. I was referring to driving it like a normal person. If you are gonna test to its limits - then you are going into the high performance brakes not the regular brakes.

 

[edyvw]

Exactly. I was referring to driving it like a normal person. If you are gonna test to its limits - then you are going into the high performance brakes not the regular brakes.

Brakes should be designed to support the capabilities of the vehicle.

 

[iCurious]

Brakes should be designed to support the capabilities of the vehicle.

This is why there are different tiers.

You don't put regular brakes on a corvette nor you don't put high performance brakes on a toyota corolla.

You are missing the picture in my previous post. You are an aggressive driver hence you drive your vehcile to the limit. Not many drives and SUV or Van like that matter.

 

[edyvw]

This is why there are different tiers.

You don't put regular brakes on a corvette nor you don't put high performance brakes on a toyota corolla.

You are missing the picture in my previous post. You are an aggressive driver hence you drive your vehcile to the limit. Not many drives and SUV or Van like that matter.

Hmmm, many SUV's and other family vehicles don't have that problem. For example, I could push my BMW X5 diesel to the limit, and the brakes would never budge. Single piston, nothing special. Actually, OE rotors are only $40 more than one for the Sienna. The rear is actually the same price.
When I upgraded brake on my Sienna, I had to pay more for an upgrade than what BMW delivers with the vehicle from the factory, by a lot.
Yes you DO put good brakes on vehicles that are not racing vehicles etc. If the company does not, it is their choice, not because. they don't "need to." Having good brakes does not mean you have 6 piston caliper in the front and 4 in the back.
They put junk brakes bcs. they can get away with it. ANd your post, is example how.

 

[iCurious]

Hmmm, many SUV's and other family vehicles don't have that problem. For example, I could push my BMW X5 diesel to the limit, and the brakes would never budge. Single piston, nothing special. Actually, OE rotors are only $40 more than one for the Sienna. The rear is actually the same price.
When I upgraded brake on my Sienna, I had to pay more for an upgrade than what BMW delivers with the vehicle from the factory, by a lot.
Yes you DO put good brakes on vehicles that are not racing vehicles etc. If the company does not, it is their choice, not because. they don't "need to." Having good brakes does not mean you have 6 piston caliper in the front and 4 in the back.
They put junk brakes bcs. they can get away with it. ANd your post, is example how.

"Depends on driving style. I drive any car to the limit" - was what I was implying.

I've been talking about longevity of the brakes. Since you warp rotors at 6k-8k miles, you are not easy on the brakes.

 

[nthach]

I know calipers. Was not sure whether rotors are also Advics or ATE has some stuff there, considering they did hydraulics.

AFAIK, Toyota doesn’t use ATE calipers or rotors on any US/Japanese model. Maybe on the EU-spec Aygo and Yaris. F-spec(not F Sport) Lexus and the IS509 models get Brembo calipers and rotors.

Honda and Subaru have been installing ATE brakes lately but have been starting to go back to Hitachi(Nissin/Tokico) or Akebono. ATE calipers are unique looking.

 

[edyvw]

"Depends on driving style. I drive any car to the limit" - was what I was implying.

I've been talking about longevity of the brakes. Since you warp rotors at 6k-8k miles, you are not easy on the brakes.

I wrap it in 6- 8k because they are junk. I don't wrap aftermarket ones.
For example, this is a brand new $37 Pagid rotor on a BMW 328 after a track day:

This color is from burning during braking.
Rotor still did 30k after this track day, went through numerous track days, grocery getting, ski days, etc.

My point, which you obviously don't want to understand, is that those rotors on Toyota or Honda are junk! That is it. Not whether they are made for easy driving or not. They made a decision to go with cheap stuff. It is that simple. If a car is too much for a rotor, then you either put a less powerful engine or suspension (and both could hardly be called performance-oriented, especially suspension) or you put appropriate brakes. In the case of Sienna, which it is quality. In the case of Honda Pilot 2nd generation, it could use a bit larger rotors and better materials.
Toyota knows how to do that. They get rotors and pads from Textar for Lexus F models.

 

[edyvw]

AFAIK, Toyota doesn’t use ATE calipers or rotors on any US/Japanese model. Maybe on the EU-spec Aygo and Yaris. F-spec(not F Sport) Lexus and the IS509 models get Brembo calipers and rotors.

Honda and Subaru have been installing ATE brakes lately but have been starting to go back to Hitachi(Nissin/Tokico) or Akebono. ATE calipers are unique looking.

F spec uses rotors and pads from textar as far as I know. Brembo calipers don't indicate Brembo rotors. Most Euro models with Brembo calipers do not come with Brembo rotors and pads.
Not sure how ATE calipers look unique in the Honda or Subaru case. I know they switched to it, but I did not know they were going back. That is obvious downgrade.

 

[50yr Street Mech]

Yes, heavy braking will run you into trouble, no if,ands,or buts. Had this problem with the ball and chain driving a 13' CRV AWD. Read her the riot act, and told her that she'll be doin the next brake job ( and pay for the parts ). I had to " teach" her how to brake normally. ( Her father was a truck driver and taught her how to drive in the 80's ). All said and done, she brakes normally now. She ate thru a set of Wagner Thermoquiet's in 20k. BUT...AND A BIG BUT....the front and rear rotors were fine. All I had to do was pad slap them, and off she went. Yes, people beep her, flip her off, go around her now, high beam her, etc......But guess who's happy in the end.....ME !!!!!

 

[dubber09]

I never used OEM rotors or pads on any vehicle that needed replacements. I think most expensive ones I ever worked with were Zimmerman's rotors and Textar pads that went on friend's 997. I'm favoring Bosch QC lately for most everything.

 

[edyvw]

Yes, heavy braking will run you into trouble, no if,ands,or buts. Had this problem with the ball and chain driving a 13' CRV AWD. Read her the riot act, and told her that she'll be doin the next brake job ( and pay for the parts ). I had to " teach" her how to brake normally. ( Her father was a truck driver and taught her how to drive in the 80's ). All said and done, she brakes normally now. She ate thru a set of Wagner Thermoquiet's in 20k. BUT...AND A BIG BUT....the front and rear rotors were fine. All I had to do was pad slap them, and off she went. Yes, people beep her, flip her off, go around her now, high beam her, etc......But guess who's happy in the end.....ME !!!!!

Nah, the issue is not riding the brakes. I sometimes get down from ski resorts, touching the brakes 2-3 times, downshifting all the time. But, when I do brake, that means I really do need to brake.
On Sequoia, they are still holding (besides that horrid soft feeling, but Pagid replacements are already in). However, I think that is due to the fact that V8 brakes with the engine really well.
Again, if aftermarket brakes work and OE does not, it is a quality issue. Like you said, no ifs and buts.

 

[50yr Street Mech]

Just tried the Bosch QC rotors and pads in MY old Toyota Solara ( 03' with rear drum ) Haven't gotten the chance to really test them out yet. They are bedded and ready to go. Just had back surgery, again, and not allowed to drive yet. I think the discs in my back are aftermarket junk ... Will keep you posted when I get back in the saddle.