Thanks! I’ll give them a try on another vehicle the next time I do brakes.
Negative experience with EBC Ultimax2 Brake Pads
- Thread starter VK56VD
- Start date
How often should the wheels be cleaned?
Maybe photos don’t paint the full picture, as the rotors were replaced at the same time as the pads.
I purchased EBC Yellows as an experiment to replace stoptech 309 pads. Since it's impossible to find now I wanted to try EBCs
EBC USA is a bit clueless about their pads I had to send them where I found friction information cause they didn't have it
I have the new "non track" copper free formula.
The pads do not come with any shims or hardware, the stoptechs did.
EBCs do have good bite, even more than 309s but lack high heat capability of the 309s. Yellows do dust alot but so did the 309s.
EBC USA is a bit clueless about their pads I had to send them where I found friction information cause they didn't have it
I have the new "non track" copper free formula. The pads do not come with any shims or hardware, the stoptechs did.
EBCs do have good bite, even more than 309s but lack high heat capability of the 309s. Yellows do dust alot but so did the 309s.
Wait. What? How have I not heard of this? I need to get schooled quick - depending on how it decides to do things, I wonder if the function could explain some of my braking dissatisfaction on my F10.
While I have you, your EBC recommendation for an F10 X-Drive daily driven but sometimes like to have some fun? I ditched the ceramic F-series standard pads in favour of dusty old-OE compound GG front and FF rear from Pagid but they're still not there compared to past E90, E39, E46. Was considering perhaps something from EBC before the snow flies this year.
Yes, that's what I thought. Besides the insane amount of brake dust, the rotors look more "burnished" than I would have expected after just 3,000 miles. They look like they've gotten hot too.
You mentioned in item #2 in your original post about the pads clunking with the initial application. Are you sure the ears/edges on the pads aren't getting jammed somehow, causing the pads to drag on the rotor because they are not retracting?
Here's a simple test. Brakes must be cold for this test. Press down firmly on the brake pedal before taking a few slow laps in your neighborhood. Make 3 or 4 slow laps around the block, never touching the brake pedal. Come to a super gentle coasting stop. The rotors should be as cold as they were before starting.
Scott
Did you get right code for F10? Because there are several versions of pads.
This won't have any effect on what you talking about. This brake fade function as well as "brake ready" function are problematic on track. On street, no issue with this. If you are on track, you want to know how much your brakes faded. Brake ready is process in which when you remove foot from gas pedal, ABS actuate a bit and move pistons a bit to immediately react when brake is pressed. Problem on track si that that can be bit "touchy."
Check this list of pads:
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW-F10-Parts/c-318-bmw-street-brake-pads
For the F30 there are published articles about all the different compounds, and how M Sport and M Performance compounds differ from non-sport. For the 5 series I've seen nothing but online conjecture (from myself included) and, for years at least, everyone will swear that nothing changed with OE formulations but they clearly went to ceramic prioritizing low dust over braking. Apparently no one with any shred of sporting inking drives a 5 series or they have the sense to get an M5
As I said, I went out of my way to try to find old "E Series OE" formulations last time - looking for lots of dust and better braking. At the time (Pre-COVID) I posted and asked at several of the major Euro parts places and no one knew enough detail to confidently help me.
I ended up with Pagid 34116850886 in the front and Textar 2456101 / D1473 in the rear. I lucked out and they seem to be the "old OE" dusty compound I was looking for and more to my liking but either I need to re-bed them more frequently than I should have to, or perhaps I should still be looking at something aftermarket.
To come back on topic: I was eyeing EBC but I'm unsure which compound and this thread caught my eye. I wouldn't want to end up with rattling pads or other issues just to try EBC.
The best way I can sum it up: good cold and initial bite but I don't see the progressive increase in brake torque with increasing pedal pressure that I should. Oddly, when DSC III "brake ready" is operating they usually work more to my liking. In general the car stops, probably better than most of what's around me, but when I step up to doing something fun or encounter an emergency situation what I expect to be there isn't there. Similar to how factory throttle curves in Sport+ lead you to believe you have a monster racing machine but the bottom half of the pedal travel is essentially non-functional because you reached WOT at 50%. (I set linear throttle response with my flash tune to stop that nonsense.)
I loved the brakes on my E90 328 which were all OE and I wouldn't change a thing. Good cold and initial bite and heaps of stopping power when you got deeper in the pedal, easily able to lock PSS on hot, dry pavement if needed.
So, on EBC.For the F30 there are published articles about all the different compounds, and how M Sport and M Performance compounds differ from non-sport. For the 5 series I've seen nothing but online conjecture (from myself included) and, for years at least, everyone will swear that nothing changed with OE formulations but they clearly went to ceramic prioritizing low dust over braking. Apparently no one with any shred of sporting inking drives a 5 series or they have the sense to get an M5
As I said, I went out of my way to try to find old "E Series OE" formulations last time - looking for lots of dust and better braking. At the time (Pre-COVID) I posted and asked at several of the major Euro parts places and no one knew enough detail to confidently help me.
I ended up with Pagid 34116850886 in the front and Textar 2456101 / D1473 in the rear. I lucked out and they seem to be the "old OE" dusty compound I was looking for and more to my liking but either I need to re-bed them more frequently than I should have to, or perhaps I should still be looking at something aftermarket.
To come back on topic: I was eyeing EBC but I'm unsure which compound and this thread caught my eye. I wouldn't want to end up with rattling pads or other issues just to try EBC.
The best way I can sum it up: good cold and initial bite but I don't see the progressive increase in brake torque with increasing pedal pressure that I should. Oddly, when DSC III "brake ready" is operating they usually work more to my liking. In general the car stops, probably better than most of what's around me, but when I step up to doing something fun or encounter an emergency situation what I expect to be there isn't there. Similar to how factory throttle curves in Sport+ lead you to believe you have a monster racing machine but the bottom half of the pedal travel is essentially non-functional because you reached WOT at 50%. (I set linear throttle response with my flash tune to stop that nonsense.)
I loved the brakes on my E90 328 which were all OE and I wouldn't change a thing. Good cold and initial bite and heaps of stopping power when you got deeper in the pedal, easily able to lock PSS on hot, dry pavement if needed.
Redstuff has good initial bite, good performance. Is it as aggressive as OE BMW compound you are talking about? No! I had them on Tiguan and they were excellent. I then put ATE replacement pads on Tiguan (GF) and they were more aggressive.
YellowStuff I used on track. They have ok cold initial bit, excellent bite when warmed up. But they do dust like crazy (compared to old fashioned BMW pads) and will squeal in cold.
I used Hawk HP+ too on BMW for track purposes (I am talking only those dual pads, not purely racing I used) and they are really, really good. But they do make noise.
I used GreenStufff EBC on Toyota, and they performed far better than Toyota OE, but that is not some achievement. So, can’t really compare to BMW or VW.
I personally never had issues with fit when it comes to anything EBC.
I agree with you, the brakes on our 2011 E90 328i M-Sport are fantastic. Ours came from the factory with Jurid pads. I was OCD enough to disassemble and check for that little detail shortly after buying it. Jurids have always been my top preference, even before we bought our E90.
Scott
EBC is actually a garage company and they DO make junk,
commonly distributed via 'tuning shops'. The 'world leader' in
glistening . . .
No OEM history, nothing. No racing reputation to speak from.
The vast majority of reputable teams use to run CL, Endless,
Ferodo, Pagid, Performance Friction, maybe Hawk.
.
Like edyvw mentioned, if so, that 2008 Passat came with weaker tyres. Tyres stop your car.
BUT, we're talking about brake pads today. Obviously that 2008 Passat came with superior
brakes compared to this Accord and to the Malibu. No doubt.
.
Yes, tires stop the car.
So when the OP said the EBC brakes had more stopping power (during street driving), what does that mean?
.
Higher friction coefficient. Higher friction leads to less pedal effort.
Much more important, is it consistent? Cold, mildly warm, real hot,
even when wet? eTC ETC. Maybe some manufacturers do it better
than others. Extensive OE expertise helps IMHO.
.
Higher friction coefficient. Higher friction leads to less pedal effort.
Much more important, is it consistent? Cold, mildly warm, real hot,
even when wet? eTC ETC. Maybe some manufacturers do it better
than others. Extensive OE expertise helps IMHO.
.
I put red stuff pads and their ultimax rotors on my 21 Altima and the bite is phenomenal. I did have an issue a few K after install with the paint they use on the rotors filling up the slots on the pad that resulted in squeaking when they got hot while on a business trip in Chicago. I removed the pads and had to forcefully remove all the material that accumulated and all has been well since. The dust settled down after about 5k and the combo has been the best I’ve ever used since. I put Brembo rotors and pads on my 18 rogue and it’s a completely different feel compared to ebc. Brembo will stop on a dime, but takes a little more work. Ebc will shoot an unbelted passenger out the windshield. Nissan actually uses some pretty good rotors and pads from the factory so I wasn’t in need of a major upgrade but surprisingly got it with the red stuff pads and the rotors are dead silent and vibration free with 15k so far.
Tires stop the car and make a difference when abs is engaged or the wheels lock on non-abs equipped vehicle but depending on the material of the brake pads, friction quality of the pad lowers the speed of the car and makes a difference.
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I may be able to help you with my own experience.
My wife has a low mile F10 520 d M Sport, 2011 or 2012.
It still had OE brakes when we got it which produced copious amounts of thick, sticky dust which could only be removed with a brush and MG wheel cleaner. one drive was enough to coat the wheels.
After a year it was driving me around the bend so I got new pads and rotors.
a year ago, I got Raybestos Element 3 Metallic front and rear pads, the front were just the EHT compound in GG friction rating. The rears were a semi-metallic but didn't fit so the Indy shop fitted a set of ceramic ATE Ceramic pads which were GH.
I think the compound is a carbon-ceramic-metallic compound, so a hybrid.
New rotors were composite with high carbon. A local brand but I'm pretty sure they all come from the same 1 or 2 places anyway.
I really only wanted less dust and similar performance but these pads also drastically improved braking performance. Friction actually increases with heat as well so if your driving down a mountain switchback they are working noticeable better at the bottom, not worse like the FE OE pads were.
The pedal feel and modulation is excellent and braking force is very smooth and linear and the car pulls up quickly and smoothly. You can actually brake quite aggressively and the passengers don't notice.
Functionally the front and rear pads are very similar if not identical compound, based on dust and performance, etc.
They still dust but there is much less and it is much easier to wash off.
It is the best sliding piston brake setup I have ever driven by a long margin, most of which can be accredited to BMW but the Raybestos EHT compound seems to be a match made in heaven.
I consider these a true street performance pad.
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I'm not sure if you have settled on new pads yet but you seem to be looking for a premium street performance solution with good pedal feel and modulation, low dust?
Have you tried Endless?
They make street performance pads which may be just the ticket, like the SSS:
ENDLESS OFFICIAL WEB SITE
Endless brake equipment: This is page of high braking performance pads and shoe for street use and Track day
endless-sport.global
Being a Japanese manufacturer they probably support your Lexus.
I have a set of MX72+ I'm just about to fit to my personal car so I cannot offer any personal feedback yet, but obviously wouldn't be trying them if they didn't have a very good name.
If you cant find try Blackhawk Japan.
Here's the Endless US website. They say all pads & rotors are made in Japan.
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I would double check, but front EP531 and rear EP518 look like the correct pad shapes. A set of SSy or SSS may only be about $150 - $200 shipped, maybe $250 for a set of MX72 or SSM+ if OP is so inclined.
Search: 48 results found for "2017 camry endless"
BlackHawkJapan offers the best genuine aftermarket performance JDM parts from Japan including STI, Mugen, TRD, Nismo, GReddy, HKS, Apexi, Blitz, Cusco and Rays.
www.blackhawkjapan.com
Food for thought anyway.
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