G.C. on GC GOLD - Base oil analysis

[Tom NJ]

There seems to be a lot of interest here about the base oil composition of the German Castrol 0W-30 oil, so I picked up a quart (Gold – M05216) at the local AZ and ran a G.C (Gas Chromatograph) and FTIR to take a peek at the components.

This oil is based entirely on 1-decene type PAOs. Judging from the ratios of the C30, C40, and C50 groupings it appears to be a blend of mostly 4 cSt PAO with either 6 cSt or 8 cSt cuts.

There is no mineral base oil present (Group I, II, or III) other than a small amount consistent with additive carrier oil.

No esters or ANs are present on the G.C. and transesterification does not remove any peaks (which it would if esters were present). The FTIR also shows no significant C=0 absorbance from esters. If there is any ester in this oil it is either very tiny or very high molecular weight, neither of which makes technical sense.

Tom

 

[beanoil]

SCREETCH! Whoa horsey.. This is news. Here is a quote from the sticky..
"What makes this stuff so good?
With any oil, it may not work well with your car. However, the majority of us love it.

Produces great UOA results.
Engines run quieter and smoother. (OK, that may be an opinion.)
Comparable price with other synthetics. ~$5 qt
GC is a TRUE synthetic. Made from PAO/Esters, not Group III. Click here for more reading.

The other Castrol Syntecs are not true synthetics.
Other examples of true synthetic oils are Mobil1, Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple to name a few!
GC is good enough to have its own forum! That's gotta mean something."
So is this accurate evidence that a formula change was done on the latest gold GC? Has Castrol again taken the low road to profitability, and tainted the elixer of life? Should I use the more common M1. I need more input!

 

[delacerda]

Was GC Green made with a PAO/Ester base?

 

[AndyH]

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Was GC Green made with a PAO/Ester base?

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Here's a post from Terry Dyson from the 17 page GC composition thread:

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"ZOil is primarily a PAO based lubricant. Nothing but Grp4 and higher components. We are currently attempting to break out and ID the complex and unique esters used in the formula. More later.

Our testing to date has included EI and CI mass spec work, currently we have another lab performing additional testing, hopefully that can catalog the complex hydrocarbons, and others we see. NMR and or Desorption capability is needed but may not be available for the additional testing.

The very exciting constituents we are encountering is that the esters used are unlike any you would find in Redline,Amsoil, or Mobil1 formulas. My hat is off to the formulator of Zoil that we are testing. No TCP or POE esters involved here. Elves indeed. I think that Doug Hillary's formula that left the Oz neck of the woods was developmental and that this formula was the answer."

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And then further down, this post from MolaKule:

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"These esters were developed in German labs between approx. 1991 and 2000 and have been improved upon since then. There are two flavors of these esters, both derived from PAO olefin polymers.

It is believed these esters are responsible for the AW and FM performance of GC wihout the inclusion of triborates and molys.

Not necessarily good, just different. With the levels of zddp and calcium, and the high viscosity PAO bases, the formulation appears to be a good one."

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And then further down, here's another nugget of info from Terry:

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"The key for now that I wanted to get across to all here is that this PAO based oil uses PAO based esters that are not normally seen in the popular GRP4 PCMO's."

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Another interesting bit of info from MolaKule:

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"First off, these esters are COMPLEX (see Interesting Articles section on white papers), and very viscous esters, and have been used in industrial gear lubes for at least the last decade.

My suspicion (theory) is that a German company is blending this for Castrol using those complex esters supplied by certain German additive (elf factory) companies. [Big Grin]

Germans seem to like motor oils with cutting-edge chemistry."

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All from this message thread:
Those interested in finding out GC's composition.....come in!!

 

[427Z06]

My understanding is that Green GC was made with PAO based oil and PAO based esters that are not normally seen in the popular Grp IV PCMO's. The esters are complex and very viscous, and have been used in industrial gear lubes for at least the last decade. I'm not a Chemist or a Tribologist so I can't talk at Tom's level, but maybe he can enlighten us all.

 

[Volvohead]

As usual, Tom brings nothing but outstanding technical content to this board. Many thanks for yet another great contribution.

 

[Tom NJ]

The word complex is, well, complex.

As it is used in esters for synthetic lubricants it means that the esters are made from multi-functional alcohols and multi-functional acids that react with each other, that is, polymerize into larger molecules. For example, a complex POE is one where some dibasic acid is added to the reaction and it links the polyol alcohols together until the dibasic acid runs out, then the monobasic acids complete the esterification.

If one complexes a TMP ester, you will create a mixture of monomers, dimers, trimers, tetramers, etc. The more the complexing, the higher the viscosity, but there will usually still be some level of the lower molecules (monomers, & dimers). The very large molecules may not show up on a G.C., but the lower ones certainly will. If one complexes to such a high viscosity that the lower molecules are totally, gone, then you basically have a VI improver, not a base oil. And even if the German Castrol contains some of these huge molecules, I would still expect to see some C=O absorbance on the FTIR.

If there is evidence of some completely unique high molecular weight esters in this formulation I would be interested to know the suspected structure so we can look for it. Frankly I have never heard of "PAO esters" - PAOs are made from alpha-olefins, which have no alcohol or acid functionality to make an ester. If one added such functionality, then they would no longer be PAOs. In any case I would expect to see some signs of it on a G.C., and all esters should show the C=O absorbance on the FTIR.

The Ketjenlube polymers fit some of the descriptions above, but again should show up on the FTIR.

Tom

 

[G-MAN]

I suspect that GC Gold and GC Green are different formulations, hence the differences in the spectro readings.

 

[Tom NJ]

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SCREETCH! Whoa horsey.. This is news.... Has Castrol again taken the low road to profitability, and tainted the elixer of life?

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If you want to send me a sample of the "green" stuff I'll take a look to see if the formulation changed.

Tom

 

[FD777]

How much do you need for a sample?
I don't have any open bottles right now, but I may in a few months.

 

[Tom NJ]

Hi FD777,

An ounce is plenty, or whatever is convenient.

You can send it to:

Tom Schaefer
Hatco Corporation
1020 King George Post Road
Fords, Nj 08863

Tom

 

[wantin150]

OK, I'm very GC ignorant. What exactly does all this mean (in plain English)?

Good, Bad, Indifferent?

 

[Nebraskan]

LOL Lookout!!

We'll ALL be sending Tom so many one ounce samples he'll be able to change oil in his car for the next 5 years!!

I've got some extra "green" stuff and will put it in a bottle for you. Plastic ok or do you need it in a glass container?

 

[G-MAN]

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OK, I'm very GC ignorant. What exactly does all this mean (in plain English)?

Good, Bad, Indifferent?

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Yes.

 

[427Z06]

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I've got some extra "green" stuff and will put it in a bottle for you. Plastic ok or do you need it in a glass container?

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Send one of each, but hurry up and send it. I can already feel the GC angst radiating out of my monitor.

Seriously, thanks for volunteering.

 

[bruce381]

Tom I had FTIR run on both the Green and Gold and they both had the same Trace.
bruce

 

[tdi-rick]

Quote:

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If one complexes a TMP ester, you will create a mixture of monomers, dimers, trimers, tetramers, etc. The more the complexing, the higher the viscosity, but there will usually still be some level of the lower molecules (monomers, & dimers). The very large molecules may not show up on a G.C., but the lower ones certainly will. If one complexes to such a high viscosity that the lower molecules are totally, gone, then you basically have a VI improver, not a base oil. And even if the German Castrol contains some of these huge molecules, I would still expect to see some C=O absorbance on the FTIR.

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Wasn't this what Terry and Molakule alluded to that made GC (and Castrols European derived gear oils) unique, that the esters were used as VII's while mimicing a base oil, and hence resisting shear. ?

Here's a PAO derived co-oligomer http://www.mitsuichemicals.com/luc.htm

 

[427Z06]

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Wasn't this what Terry and Molakule alluded to that made GC (and Castrols European derived gear oils) unique, that the esters were used as VII's while mimicing a base oil, and hence resisting shear. ?

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Doesn't EM use their SuperSyn for the same/similar purpose?

 

[Tom NJ]

Sorry for the confusion, I should have explained G.C.

Gas Chromatography is a technique for analyzing organic liquids to determine the ingredients. I’ll start with a plain-word analogy.

Imagine a mixture of different size balls, and you would like to know how many balls there are of each different size. You need to first separate the balls according to size, and then count the number of each size. One way to separate the balls is to roll them through a long tube, which is coated inside with a sticky coating. Each ball sinks into the sticky coating to a different depth depending on its size and shape, so each ball moves along at a different speed. As they move through the tube, the mixture of balls are separated because they move at different speeds, and by the time they make it to the end of the long tube they are separated into groups of balls. The smaller faster moving balls are all grouped together and reach the end of the long tube first. They are followed by a group of the next larger balls, and so on. In short, what the long tube did is slow down the balls according to their size and separate them into size groups, each of which then exits the tube as a group of equal sized balls.

This same principle can be applied to molecules. A motor oil is a mixture of different size and shape molecules, and to see and measure each type you first need to separate them. That’s what a G.C. does. Using a syringe, you inject about 1/1000th of a drop of the oil (a mixture of liquids) into the machine where it hits a very hot tube and boils into a mixture of gases. These gases are swept by an inert gas (helium) into a long thin tube that is coated with special chemicals. As the mixture of gases moves through the long tube, each gas dissolves into the coating and is then pulled out of solution by the helium, that is, they kind of roll through the tube like balls with the speed determined by their solubility in the coating. This separates the gases into groups, each group being a different set of molecules. As each group of molecules exit the tube they are measured and a “peak” is drawn on a graph.

By examining the graph, one can see a series of peaks, each representing a different molecule, and the size of the peak indicates how much is present. The mineral oil graph shows hundreds of peaks, all piled into a pyramid shape because they are a distillation cut containing similar size molecules. PAO looks totally different, showing discreet groups of peaks separated by a flat baseline between them. Esters can have many different looking graphs because there are many different esters. The point is, each base oil has its own unique set of peaks, and the graph serves as a thumbprint that identifies the product and its amount.

What’s it all mean? One could argue that the composition of a motor oil is not very important at all so long as it performs the way you want it to in your car. But on this forum it rises to a supreme level, an “elixir of life”!

I’m just reporting what I find, and I didn’t find esters in the Gold GC. This doesn’t mean it’s not G*d’s gift to car enthusiasts, only that it may achieve this status without esters.

Tom

 

[GMorg]

No esters, no ANs, no lower groups...What is keeping the seals soft? What is keeping the additives in solution?