Friend's Sister Bought new 2012 Camry

[Spector]

i almost pulled the trigger on a new Ford Hybrid this weekend. Got the Edmunds, Kelleys and Consumer reports invoice price and started with invoice price. Guess I went in too high as no negotiation, they accepted my offer which really scared me, like 3,100 under sticker.

What scared me more was went to service and spoke with a couple of techs that had previously worked at Toyota. Said a no brainer when it comes to hybrids, Toyota or nothing. Ford technology was not as good, CVT transmission issues etc.

Well, with gas prices Toyota is not dealing here, Prius C cannot be kept in inventory and even loaded Camry hybrids are flying out the door.

So, I walked and decided to keep current vehicle for now. Want a new car, don't need one

It is a major hassle though especially if you also have to get a quote from CarMax for their price on selling your car to compare with what dealer is offering on a trade, very time consuming. I have been on and off looking for several weeks not and have spent at least 8 hours at dealers so a huge hassle

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Most women don't want to drive a manual trans. Is it me or the Corolla and Camry are looking similar ?


Most people in general. Makes them more disconnected from their vehicles and their appreciation of the physics of driving. ATs and their effect on driving skill IMO is why so many complain about the inability to hit EPA numbers - too easy to mash the go pedal.

The backside of them struck me as the same. The corolla is BIG.

Without a doubt that is the funniest post I've seen in a long time. The Corolla is "BIG"? What does that make my Grand Marquis? Some of us who are taller than most might not agree with that.
I'm surprised - I didn't hear anything about entitlement though!

FWIW - as long as we are off topic here, I exceed the EPA MPG on my Mercury consistently in freeway driving. The wife's Camry has never came close - regardless of whether I, my wife or my college age daughter is driving. I've rented a couple of Camrys that got about the same as ours so I doubt there is anything "wrong" with ours.

Also off topic - but when I read the thread about "snobs on BITOG" the other day, the people who think that manual transmissions are SO much better than automatics came to mind. All those people seem to think they are "in touch" with their car so much more than those of us that drive the "sludgeboxes" and are so "disconnected from their vehicles".

WOW. Well take any cursory look at the current corolla versus older ones. What is it, smaller? Dont think so. The reality is that it is the size of older camries at this point.

And my wife and I ARE taller than most, and we fit fine in the front of the corolla - last gen. Then again, we are tall and muscular, Im 6ft4-5, and about 250. Could loose a few pounds, but arent obese or have a giant gut, which unfortunately is a determinant for many these days.


And Im sorry, you can feel that ATs are so wonderful, but let's face the reality. My MT has 140k on it and the clutch is perfect. I paid $1k less in acquisition to buy the car because I didnt pay for the optional AT, and Ive saved fuel the whole time. Its not a matter of being so much more magically connected with your car, but rather having more control and a sense of what is going on. Go to any place where there are a lot of lights and you see idiots gunning it just to slam on their brakes at the next red light. It is FAR easier to slam on the gas and brake on an AT where one does not have to think about shifting the gears to go faster, because it is just all done for you. In an MT, you actually realize that the RPMs are going way high, have to take the foot off the throttle, etc. There isnt any magic to it isnt any snobbery to it, just the reality that you DO have to think a bit more when accelerating an MT car. And my experience and even analyzing my own driving performance indicates that the lack of thought in driving an AT means harder acceleration and makes it easier to drive wastefully. Will everyone? Nope, but lots do. You can be plenty situationally aware driving an AT. But again, look at how many accelerate hard just to create heat and brake wear, and drive an MT and AT back to back and see which is easier to drive hard and acclerate hard, time after time.

If you cant analyze it critically and come up with your own opinion, not much I can do. No point in fighting and bringing up "snobs" or whatnot else if you dont have your own opinion and analysis.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Spector
i almost pulled the trigger on a new Ford Hybrid this weekend. Got the Edmunds, Kelleys and Consumer reports invoice price and started with invoice price. Guess I went in too high as no negotiation, they accepted my offer which really scared me, like 3,100 under sticker.

What scared me more was went to service and spoke with a couple of techs that had previously worked at Toyota. Said a no brainer when it comes to hybrids, Toyota or nothing. Ford technology was not as good, CVT transmission issues etc.

Well, with gas prices Toyota is not dealing here, Prius C cannot be kept in inventory and even loaded Camry hybrids are flying out the door.

So, I walked and decided to keep current vehicle for now. Want a new car, don't need one

It is a major hassle though especially if you also have to get a quote from CarMax for their price on selling your car to compare with what dealer is offering on a trade, very time consuming. I have been on and off looking for several weeks not and have spent at least 8 hours at dealers so a huge hassle


That's bull. The fusion and escape hybrids have not had a single engine, or battery failure in the taxi use. There was an article on it a while back

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

If you cant analyze it critically and come up with your own opinion, not much I can do. No point in fighting and bringing up "snobs" or whatnot else if you dont have your own opinion and analysis.


Again you missed the whole point, which really isn't too surprising.
I have decades of experience driving - both manual and stick shifts. I watch people do all the same stupid stuff - like you mention floor it from one stop light to another. Except I have noticed (at least in my area) it doesn't seem to matter if they are driving sticks or automatics. People drive the same regardless. It's very easy to tell what type of transmission they have especially if you have your window down, as I often do on these beautiful warm spring days.
Other than that I'm not quite sure how else you can "analyze it critically".

Personally I get tired of hearing about how "reliable" MT are - yet remember the thread we had here a while back? How many of us had A/T that went 200K miles and more with no repairs. As I've mentioned before - the transmission in my Aerostar is the A4LD - which has a bad reputation so far as transmissions go. Yet with minimum care look how long it lasted. Right now it shifts perfectly every gear, very smooth and no slippage.

But hey if you enjoy shifting gears through traffic, then go for it! You have my blessing! (Can I say that here?) I've done that for the last 50 (actually closer to 60 years) in everything from a Rambler to a Peterbilt.

6'4? You are a little shorter than I am.

As for snobbery - well I think it speaks for itself.

 

[JHZR2]

If snobbery is putting out one's own opinion based upon experience, whether it agrees or not with yours, then so be it.

Why not go re-read your post? You implied nowhere about all people doing the same stupid stuff. All you got on your soapbox about was MT snobs saying they are so much more "in touch". Where does that imply any of the other points you were apparently trying to make?

You can argue any lifecycle cost aspect you want, I know what is cheaper and better for me, and I know how I and others drive in cars with different transmissions. If I did a scientific study, you would still disagree, so why even start? (and I too have multiple vehicles with ATs and over 200k on them without service, so its not like Im going at it blind). As I said before, consistent:

Quote:
Its not a matter of being so much more magically connected with your car, but rather having more control and a sense of what is going on. Go to any place where there are a lot of lights and you see idiots gunning it just to slam on their brakes at the next red light. It is FAR easier to slam on the gas and brake on an AT where one does not have to think about shifting the gears to go faster, because it is just all done for you. In an MT, you actually realize that the RPMs are going way high, have to take the foot off the throttle, etc. There isnt any magic to it isnt any snobbery to it, just the reality that you DO have to think a bit more when accelerating an MT car.


If you cant recognize that it takes more thought and more involvement to have to shift for yourself, then so be it. It is vastly easier to stomp the go pedal on an AT car and leave it floored until I hit my target speed, versus doing it manually. You are right, people all do stupid things when driving, my point is that it takes a bit more thought and consideration to do it to the same extent when shifting manually.

And WRT the corolla, sorry if you think me being 6 ft 4 is irrelevant because Im shorter. Guess what, Im taller than most, and therefore if I fit, 95+% of the population also fits. They did a pretty good job, regardless of your height or girth. And if I fit well, it is a pretty good data point, as I can point out a lot of cars where my head is routinely against the headliner. BTW, the 12 corolla has 92.1 cu ft, versus 90 in the '07 model and 84 for the '91 model. A GM has 107.5 but it is an absolutely different vehicle from even a camry (102 cf) or a corolla. Why even bring it in the discussion? Irrelevant. The corolla has gotten big, like it or not. As has the camry. It is what it is. And neither may be for me, but both are comfortable rides for those who do not care to drive a taxicab everywhere they go.

Take your own brand of snobbery and keep it to yourself.

Back to my original question about MT, IMO it IS a shame that one cannot get it so equipped, in order to save some money in acquisition and have what is IMO a simpler vehicle. Hopefully the accord does not loose it.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Take your own brand of snobbery and keep it to yourself.



Pot - meet the kettle! LOL

I'm not the one always saying how much better one transmission is over the other.
So - when it comes to snobbery - same to you.

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

The corolla has gotten big, like it or not. As has the camry. It is what it is. And neither may be for me, but both are comfortable rides for those who do not care to drive a taxicab everywhere they go.

You are calling my car a "taxicab"? Nice! I'm not going to dignify that remark - other than to say it shows your level of maturity and may another thing or two I'm not going to mention!

I'm out of this thread. Have a nice day, Mr. JHZR2

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Back to my original question about MT, IMO it IS a shame that one cannot get it so equipped, in order to save some money in acquisition and have what is IMO a simpler vehicle. Hopefully the accord does not loose it.

It costs a lot of money to test the MT and DOT/EPA certified and sale volume is too low to justify the cost, that why many companies just drop the MT option for many cars. The sale volume is low because may potential customers either don't know how to drive a MT car or they don't want to bother with shifting in the stop and go traffic.

 

[JHZR2]

In well designed and geared MTs, shifitng in traffic is easy. I've driven some good and some bad, and it seems really flywheel and gearing related.

But your point on EPA costs is a good one, I think.

That said, it seems that these tests aren't even run by the EPA, ANC that the EPA may not even be spot checking them much, so I have to wonder if it is just an excuse to limit the various cars sold here...

 

[antiqueshell]

No manual option??!!!

Just when I thought the Camry might be getting interesting again, they disappoint yet again.