Fram orange can sounds pretty spiffy though. No death or doom implied.
Fram "Orange Can O' Death" - >1 year, >20k miles
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Show me the data that a full synthetic 0W-20 wouldn't be fine at -30 deg F. I've seen cars with conventional oil fired up at temps way below zero. They certainly didn't like it, but it happens.
You're not thinking about rapid metal expansion, coolant being super-cold and so forth. Heating the engine isn't just about the oil, it's about the engine. The warmer the engine is on a cold-weather day, the less damage there will be at startup, which is where an awful lot of engine wear (AND damage) takes place. So I stand by my statement: anyone foolish enough to cold-start an engine in -30 conditions without an engine heater deserves the engine damage. I don't care about anecdotes you may have, my own experience, both with automotive and piston-aircraft engines, demonstrated to me, if I lived in a frigid climate, I'd have a pan heater and a block heater. You can go ahead and start the personal attacks now.
Show me the data that a full synthetic 0W-20 wouldn't be fine at -30 deg F. I've seen cars with conventional oil fired up at temps way below zero. They certainly didn't like it, but it happens.
You're not thinking about rapid metal expansion, coolant being super-cold and so forth. Heating the engine isn't just about the oil, it's about the engine. The warmer the engine is on a cold-weather day, the less damage there will be at startup, which is where an awful lot of engine wear (AND damage) takes place. So I stand by my statement: anyone foolish enough to cold-start an engine in -30 conditions without an engine heater deserves the engine damage. I don't care about anecdotes you may have, my own experience, both with automotive and piston-aircraft engines, demonstrated to me, if I lived in a frigid climate, I'd have a pan heater and a block heater. You can go ahead and start the personal attacks now.
Change color of can. Problem solved
Originally Posted By: telecat
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Show me the data that a full synthetic 0W-20 wouldn't be fine at -30 deg F. I've seen cars with conventional oil fired up at temps way below zero. They certainly didn't like it, but it happens.
You're not thinking about rapid metal expansion, coolant being super-cold and so forth. Heating the engine isn't just about the oil, it's about the engine. The warmer the engine is on a cold-weather day, the less damage there will be at startup, which is where an awful lot of engine wear (AND damage) takes place. So I stand by my statement: anyone foolish enough to cold-start an engine in -30 conditions without an engine heater deserves the engine damage. I don't care about anecdotes you may have, my own experience, both with automotive and piston-aircraft engines, demonstrated to me, if I lived in a frigid climate, I'd have a pan heater and a block heater. You can go ahead and start the personal attacks now.
So where did you get the this idea that I said starting engines at -30 F without an engine heater was all perfectly OK? You read way too much in between the lines. Seems you're a bit crotchety and argumentative just for the sake of starting an argument - just an observation to consider for your future benefit.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Show me the data that a full synthetic 0W-20 wouldn't be fine at -30 deg F. I've seen cars with conventional oil fired up at temps way below zero. They certainly didn't like it, but it happens.
You're not thinking about rapid metal expansion, coolant being super-cold and so forth. Heating the engine isn't just about the oil, it's about the engine. The warmer the engine is on a cold-weather day, the less damage there will be at startup, which is where an awful lot of engine wear (AND damage) takes place. So I stand by my statement: anyone foolish enough to cold-start an engine in -30 conditions without an engine heater deserves the engine damage. I don't care about anecdotes you may have, my own experience, both with automotive and piston-aircraft engines, demonstrated to me, if I lived in a frigid climate, I'd have a pan heater and a block heater. You can go ahead and start the personal attacks now.
So where did you get the this idea that I said starting engines at -30 F without an engine heater was all perfectly OK? You read way too much in between the lines. Seems you're a bit crotchety and argumentative just for the sake of starting an argument - just an observation to consider for your future benefit.
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
My Napa Golds are made in USA.
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
My Napa Golds are made in USA.
Originally Posted By: Motorking
the majority of oil used in quick lubes does not meet 2010 and newer specifications.
Wow! That's a pretty wide brush!
Last I checked, the quick lubes in my area were using ILSAC GF-5, SN oil in the base package. That includes: Mobil 1 Express Lube, Valvoline Instant Oil Change (or Valvoline Express), Havoline Xpress Lube, Castrol Lube Express and of course Jiffy Lube.
Heck even the Walmart TLEs that I've been to have Pennzoil, Castrol GTX or Valvoline in their bulk tanks. All API SN.
If GF-5, SN doesn't meet 2010 or newer specifications, there must be a massive cover-up and conspiracy that makes grassy knolls and missing WMDs pale in comparison.
the majority of oil used in quick lubes does not meet 2010 and newer specifications.
Wow! That's a pretty wide brush!
Last I checked, the quick lubes in my area were using ILSAC GF-5, SN oil in the base package. That includes: Mobil 1 Express Lube, Valvoline Instant Oil Change (or Valvoline Express), Havoline Xpress Lube, Castrol Lube Express and of course Jiffy Lube.
Heck even the Walmart TLEs that I've been to have Pennzoil, Castrol GTX or Valvoline in their bulk tanks. All API SN.
If GF-5, SN doesn't meet 2010 or newer specifications, there must be a massive cover-up and conspiracy that makes grassy knolls and missing WMDs pale in comparison.
Originally Posted By: chainblu
Originally Posted By: Motorking
the majority of oil used in quick lubes does not meet 2010 and newer specifications.
Wow! That's a pretty wide brush!
Last I checked, the quick lubes in my area were using ILSAC GF-5, SN oil in the base package. That includes: Mobil 1 Express Lube, Valvoline Instant Oil Change (or Valvoline Express), Havoline Xpress Lube, Castrol Lube Express and of course Jiffy Lube.
Heck even the Walmart TLEs that I've been to have Pennzoil, Castrol GTX or Valvoline in their bulk tanks. All API SN.
If GF-5, SN doesn't meet 2010 or newer specifications, there must be a massive cover-up and conspiracy that makes grassy knolls and missing WMDs pale in comparison.
Have you ever known a salesman that tells the truth???
Originally Posted By: Motorking
the majority of oil used in quick lubes does not meet 2010 and newer specifications.
Wow! That's a pretty wide brush!
Last I checked, the quick lubes in my area were using ILSAC GF-5, SN oil in the base package. That includes: Mobil 1 Express Lube, Valvoline Instant Oil Change (or Valvoline Express), Havoline Xpress Lube, Castrol Lube Express and of course Jiffy Lube.
Heck even the Walmart TLEs that I've been to have Pennzoil, Castrol GTX or Valvoline in their bulk tanks. All API SN.
If GF-5, SN doesn't meet 2010 or newer specifications, there must be a massive cover-up and conspiracy that makes grassy knolls and missing WMDs pale in comparison.
Have you ever known a salesman that tells the truth???
Originally Posted By: steveh
Have you ever known a salesman that tells the truth???
I don't think the dishonesty in the oil change business is a rampant as much as we're led to believe here at BITOG. Sure there are always going to be unscrupulous businesses, but it doesn't mean they are ALL out to rip you off.
Have you ever known a salesman that tells the truth???
I don't think the dishonesty in the oil change business is a rampant as much as we're led to believe here at BITOG. Sure there are always going to be unscrupulous businesses, but it doesn't mean they are ALL out to rip you off.
Originally Posted By: chainblu
Originally Posted By: Motorking
the majority of oil used in quick lubes does not meet 2010 and newer specifications.
Wow! That's a pretty wide brush!
Last I checked, the quick lubes in my area were using ILSAC GF-5, SN oil in the base package. That includes: Mobil 1 Express Lube, Valvoline Instant Oil Change (or Valvoline Express), Havoline Xpress Lube, Castrol Lube Express and of course Jiffy Lube.
Heck even the Walmart TLEs that I've been to have Pennzoil, Castrol GTX or Valvoline in their bulk tanks. All API SN.
If GF-5, SN doesn't meet 2010 or newer specifications, there must be a massive cover-up and conspiracy that makes grassy knolls and missing WMDs pale in comparison.
All valid points. I've gotta say this one is a real head scratcher. I've read some complaints about quick lubes on bitog, but generally they have been service 'tech' related. First time reading that the majority of them are using substandard, ie., non API spec oil.
As noted, I'm sure there are 'some' unethical operators. Just as PQIA has exposed some non API spec, mostly unknown/uncommon brand motor oils, generally sold in convenience stores. But they are in the vast minority.
Until proven otherwise, this one dwells in the realm of the tin foil hat for me.
Originally Posted By: Motorking
the majority of oil used in quick lubes does not meet 2010 and newer specifications.
Wow! That's a pretty wide brush!
Last I checked, the quick lubes in my area were using ILSAC GF-5, SN oil in the base package. That includes: Mobil 1 Express Lube, Valvoline Instant Oil Change (or Valvoline Express), Havoline Xpress Lube, Castrol Lube Express and of course Jiffy Lube.
Heck even the Walmart TLEs that I've been to have Pennzoil, Castrol GTX or Valvoline in their bulk tanks. All API SN.
If GF-5, SN doesn't meet 2010 or newer specifications, there must be a massive cover-up and conspiracy that makes grassy knolls and missing WMDs pale in comparison.
All valid points. I've gotta say this one is a real head scratcher. I've read some complaints about quick lubes on bitog, but generally they have been service 'tech' related. First time reading that the majority of them are using substandard, ie., non API spec oil.
As noted, I'm sure there are 'some' unethical operators. Just as PQIA has exposed some non API spec, mostly unknown/uncommon brand motor oils, generally sold in convenience stores. But they are in the vast minority.
Until proven otherwise, this one dwells in the realm of the tin foil hat for me.
My guess is that motor king is referring to the fact that most people are using non dexos approved oil in their 2010 and newer GM products, for example. That maybe because the quick lube place doesn't carry it or they default to a conventional 5-30 change because that is what the customer asks for.
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a product that is sub-par compared to the competition. That's what makes you lose sales.
If you care to be a company that is responsible towards it's workers and want to add jobs rather than fire people: Make filters that are as good as Mahle, Mann or Purflux, and adhere to the principle of making filters that are as good as the original equipment of the car manufacturer.
OE filter has X square inches of paper? Don't make a filter that has less.
OE filter has a paper that filters with an efficiency of Y? Don't make a filter that uses lower quality paper.
OE filter has a silicone ADBV? Don't make a filter that has a nitrile one.
OE filter's bypass opens at Z psi? Don't make a filter that opens above or below that.
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a product that is sub-par compared to the competition. That's what makes you lose sales.
If you care to be a company that is responsible towards it's workers and want to add jobs rather than fire people: Make filters that are as good as Mahle, Mann or Purflux, and adhere to the principle of making filters that are as good as the original equipment of the car manufacturer.
OE filter has X square inches of paper? Don't make a filter that has less.
OE filter has a paper that filters with an efficiency of Y? Don't make a filter that uses lower quality paper.
OE filter has a silicone ADBV? Don't make a filter that has a nitrile one.
OE filter's bypass opens at Z psi? Don't make a filter that opens above or below that.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a subpar product. That's what makes you lose sales.
Subpar compared to the classics that have gaping holes?
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a subpar product. That's what makes you lose sales.
Subpar compared to the classics that have gaping holes?
Originally Posted By: chainblu
Originally Posted By: steveh
Have you ever known a salesman that tells the truth???
I don't think the dishonesty in the oil change business is a rampant as much as we're led to believe here at BITOG.
Are you sure you're talking about the petroleum business? Say, I've got a swamp in southern Arizona, You wanna buy it?
Originally Posted By: steveh
Have you ever known a salesman that tells the truth???
I don't think the dishonesty in the oil change business is a rampant as much as we're led to believe here at BITOG.
Are you sure you're talking about the petroleum business? Say, I've got a swamp in southern Arizona, You wanna buy it?
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a subpar product. That's what makes you lose sales.
Subpar compared to the classics that have gaping holes?
Subpar compared to everything else. Those classics with gaping holes are likely Frams.
Fram filters are so bad that they are actually illegal in the European Union and banned from import as each and every spare part sold in the EU has to guarantee that it is as good as the original part by law, that's why all European Fram filters are made in Poland by Sogefi to a much higher standard than the OCOD.
Now this is not the EU where they have law that taxes your feet and your toes, too, but luckily this is America where you can do whatever the [censored] you want in freedom.
However, the founding fathers believed in a right to pursue happiness, and with that also goes at least the requirement that nobody interferes with your right to pursue of happiness as well. Now you can do the bare minimum and just not interfere, or you can be a nice guy, go the extra mile, actually help your fellow men in their pursuit of happiness.
This thing looks cheap and ugly, too, like something that barely gets the job done and not like something that wants to aid me in my pursuit of happiness.
This one on the other hand is, besides being as good as Mann, Mahle and the OEM part anyways by law (and is actually, the OEM part on all French cars and Maseratis as well as some Fiats and Ferraris), also a work of art, beautiful in its own regard and gorgeous to look at. Something that makes you look forward to work with as its beauty gives you pleasure every time you take it out and put it on a car.
And for that, I like to aid them in their pursuit of happiness too, and buy their filter. Because it goes the extra mile for me. And that in and of itself is something that makes me happy.
Does Fram go the extra mile for us, or is Fram a company that just does the bare minimum and instead of hiring engineers to work on a nicer filter, hires a guy who blathers about workers in Ohio and Illinois (Wix has them too, your know. So does Purolator. And Champion Labs) and how the OCOD lasts a trillion miles on some Japanese ricecooker but only if you replace it twice a week or every 500mi, whichever comes first?
At least that's my metaphysics of industrial design. *tips his head and puts a wheat straw into his mouth*
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a subpar product. That's what makes you lose sales.
Subpar compared to the classics that have gaping holes?
Subpar compared to everything else. Those classics with gaping holes are likely Frams.
Fram filters are so bad that they are actually illegal in the European Union and banned from import as each and every spare part sold in the EU has to guarantee that it is as good as the original part by law, that's why all European Fram filters are made in Poland by Sogefi to a much higher standard than the OCOD.
Now this is not the EU where they have law that taxes your feet and your toes, too, but luckily this is America where you can do whatever the [censored] you want in freedom.
However, the founding fathers believed in a right to pursue happiness, and with that also goes at least the requirement that nobody interferes with your right to pursue of happiness as well. Now you can do the bare minimum and just not interfere, or you can be a nice guy, go the extra mile, actually help your fellow men in their pursuit of happiness.
This thing looks cheap and ugly, too, like something that barely gets the job done and not like something that wants to aid me in my pursuit of happiness.
This one on the other hand is, besides being as good as Mann, Mahle and the OEM part anyways by law (and is actually, the OEM part on all French cars and Maseratis as well as some Fiats and Ferraris), also a work of art, beautiful in its own regard and gorgeous to look at. Something that makes you look forward to work with as its beauty gives you pleasure every time you take it out and put it on a car.
And for that, I like to aid them in their pursuit of happiness too, and buy their filter. Because it goes the extra mile for me. And that in and of itself is something that makes me happy.
Does Fram go the extra mile for us, or is Fram a company that just does the bare minimum and instead of hiring engineers to work on a nicer filter, hires a guy who blathers about workers in Ohio and Illinois (Wix has them too, your know. So does Purolator. And Champion Labs) and how the OCOD lasts a trillion miles on some Japanese ricecooker but only if you replace it twice a week or every 500mi, whichever comes first?
At least that's my metaphysics of industrial design. *tips his head and puts a wheat straw into his mouth*
Last edited:
Inserting images is so hard to learn!
Originally Posted By: GreenFocus
Inserting images is so hard to learn!
Quite hard, forum jockey...
Inserting images is so hard to learn!
Quite hard, forum jockey...
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Subpar compared to everything else. Those classics with gaping holes are likely Frams.
That doesn't even make sense.
Subpar compared to everything else. Those classics with gaping holes are likely Frams.
That doesn't even make sense.
Good looking filter!
I have no problems with Frams. In fact I think the fiber end caps are a benefit (think flexing, better bonding and better sealing). If the Fram has tight even pleats it's as good as any filter. This design has been used by reputable OEMs (Honda, Subaru) and the auto world has not imploded.
I have no problems with Frams. In fact I think the fiber end caps are a benefit (think flexing, better bonding and better sealing). If the Fram has tight even pleats it's as good as any filter. This design has been used by reputable OEMs (Honda, Subaru) and the auto world has not imploded.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a subpar product. That's what makes you lose sales.
Subpar compared to the classics that have gaping holes?
Subpar compared to everything else. Those classics with gaping holes are likely Frams.
Fram filters are so bad that they are actually illegal in the European Union and banned from import as each and every spare part sold in the EU has to guarantee that it is as good as the original part by law, that's why all European Fram filters are made in Poland by Sogefi to a much higher standard than the OCOD.
Now this is not the EU where they have law that taxes your feet and your toes, too, but luckily this is America where you can do whatever the [censored] you want in freedom.
However, the founding fathers believed in a right to pursue happiness, and with that also goes at least the requirement that nobody interferes with your right to pursue of happiness as well. Now you can do the bare minimum and just not interfere, or you can be a nice guy, go the extra mile, actually help your fellow men in their pursuit of happiness.
This thing looks cheap and ugly, too, like something that barely gets the job done and not like something that wants to aid me in my pursuit of happiness.
This one on the other hand is, besides being as good as Mann, Mahle and the OEM part anyways by law (and is actually, the OEM part on all French cars and Maseratis as well as some Fiats and Ferraris), also a work of art, beautiful in its own regard and gorgeous to look at. Something that makes you look forward to work with as its beauty gives you pleasure every time you take it out and put it on a car.
And for that, I like to aid them in their pursuit of happiness too, and buy their filter. Because it goes the extra mile for me. And that in and of itself is something that makes me happy.
Does Fram go the extra mile for us, or is Fram a company that just does the bare minimum and instead of hiring engineers to work on a nicer filter, hires a guy who blathers about workers in Ohio and Illinois (Wix has them too, your know. So does Purolator. And Champion Labs) and how the OCOD lasts a trillion miles on some Japanese ricecooker but only if you replace it twice a week or every 500mi, whichever comes first?
At least that's my metaphysics of industrial design. *tips his head and puts a wheat straw into his mouth*
If you're going to post pics at least be fair. Why post the seam side of the Fram and the non-seam side of the fancy French filter? lol
BTW, does the spring on the French filter have a groove to sit in? Pull the filter out of the can, show us the whole filter for review. It is pretty, but is it functional?
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Motorking
OCOD!
Do you know that FRAM employs over 3500 well paid workers and engineers in Ohio and Illinois?
Every time you or anyone else causes us to lose a sale because you refer to our product as OCOD, somebody may lose their job. I could really wrap my arms around this if there were any truth whatsoever to the story. We make over 320 million filters per year. We are a major OE supplier with many OE's using our designs and now that the patent has expired, many other filter companies doing the same. We stand behind our product 110%. If we fail and engine due to manufacturing issue, we buy it. We get letters every day from users with 500k, 600k and even 720k on an Infinity J20 all using the nefarious OCOD. Just asking for this to go away, it is hurting our business and lets competitors point to internet anecdotes as proof of our quality. The only proof is in oil analysis and we always come out of that smelling like a rose.
You, sir, are mistaken.
People call it OCOD because you guys deliver a subpar product. That's what makes you lose sales.
Subpar compared to the classics that have gaping holes?
Subpar compared to everything else. Those classics with gaping holes are likely Frams.
Fram filters are so bad that they are actually illegal in the European Union and banned from import as each and every spare part sold in the EU has to guarantee that it is as good as the original part by law, that's why all European Fram filters are made in Poland by Sogefi to a much higher standard than the OCOD.
Now this is not the EU where they have law that taxes your feet and your toes, too, but luckily this is America where you can do whatever the [censored] you want in freedom.
However, the founding fathers believed in a right to pursue happiness, and with that also goes at least the requirement that nobody interferes with your right to pursue of happiness as well. Now you can do the bare minimum and just not interfere, or you can be a nice guy, go the extra mile, actually help your fellow men in their pursuit of happiness.
This thing looks cheap and ugly, too, like something that barely gets the job done and not like something that wants to aid me in my pursuit of happiness.
This one on the other hand is, besides being as good as Mann, Mahle and the OEM part anyways by law (and is actually, the OEM part on all French cars and Maseratis as well as some Fiats and Ferraris), also a work of art, beautiful in its own regard and gorgeous to look at. Something that makes you look forward to work with as its beauty gives you pleasure every time you take it out and put it on a car.
And for that, I like to aid them in their pursuit of happiness too, and buy their filter. Because it goes the extra mile for me. And that in and of itself is something that makes me happy.
Does Fram go the extra mile for us, or is Fram a company that just does the bare minimum and instead of hiring engineers to work on a nicer filter, hires a guy who blathers about workers in Ohio and Illinois (Wix has them too, your know. So does Purolator. And Champion Labs) and how the OCOD lasts a trillion miles on some Japanese ricecooker but only if you replace it twice a week or every 500mi, whichever comes first?
At least that's my metaphysics of industrial design. *tips his head and puts a wheat straw into his mouth*
If you're going to post pics at least be fair. Why post the seam side of the Fram and the non-seam side of the fancy French filter? lol
BTW, does the spring on the French filter have a groove to sit in? Pull the filter out of the can, show us the whole filter for review. It is pretty, but is it functional?
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