Fram Ultra 3614 cut open. 4 years/24,350 miles.

[ZeeOSix]

I said I have no faith in marketing numbers. Marketing departments generally aren't burdened with technical facts.

At least BITOG got a first hand taste of some independant testing by Ascent on the ISO 4548-12 efficiency of some oil filters to see how they stacked up and compared to the manufacturer's efficiency claims.

 

[JeePing]

I said I have no faith in marketing numbers. Marketing departments generally aren't burdened with technical facts. If the manufacturer says the filter passes test x for standard y, then I'm good with that.

The butter knife isn't testing anything, just looking for visible debris.

I dont know this reads as a sure fire way to see how loaded your filter is:

scrape the filter with a butter knife or similar. If you get debris on the scraper, you have a pretty loaded filter.

 

[wwillson]

I dont know this reads as a sure fire way to see how loaded your filter is:

It's not. I do it only to look for visible debris. It's non-scientific, not repeatable, it measures nothing. The only question is answers is, "Can I see anything".

 

[notharry]

An experiment is fine. However... How often does this crowd feel about these other filter life intervals? Like when to change their Engine air filter? Cabin air filter? HVAC filter at home? Paint respirator when painting a vehicle indoors with no paint booth? Water filter on their refrigerator and icemaker? Heating oil Tank filter on their oil fired boiler? Hydraulic pump filter on the 100,000 dozer? I don't want an answer, Just asking if some things are worth the dough to be "Safe". Outside design limitations can be risky. Filters are cheap. oil is not as much. That said this is interesting that a filter would hold together this long. was this all highway? I'm in Boston and City driving is tough on everything. Lots of idling a stop start.

 

[pbm]

I have this same filter (one of the older Fram Ultra 3614's that was rated for 15K on the box) on my 2014 Focus right now. It's coming up on it's 2nd run of 4.5K miles (9K total on filter). I'm deciding if I'll run one more 4.5K run (which would be 13.5K total on the filter.) I'm usually a 1 OCI per filter guy but the PITA to remove belly shield that Ford uses has led me to using a Mityvac and doing 2 (or maybe 3) short OCI's on a higher quality filter. Thoughts on the 3rd run on this filter?

As I stated in previous posts the 2.0 Duratec in my GDI Focus turns the oil dark (soot) much sooner than the 2.5 non-GDI Duratec in my 2016 Escape. This is why I've shortened the OCI on the Focus to 4500 miles (I have no problem running 7K OCIs on the Escape because of the cleaner port injection and also the larger sump (4.5 quarts in the Focus vs. 5.7 quarts in the Escape)...I actually run 6 quarts in the Escape and use the oversized 3600 filter because the longer filter is protected on the Escape unlike on the Focus. The Escape also has the PITA to remove bellypan. I wished Ford had an access cover in the bellypan like our Mazda CX-30 which makes OC's a breeze but it seems Ford wants us to bring it in for 'service' by making it difficult for the DIY guy.

 

[Bellavita]

Fram variously rates them for 20k and 25k miles. I/we live in an extraordinarily mild climate and time is just not a factor, practically.

That said, in the past the car was doing 15k to 20k miles a year, so I was leaving them on 1.5 years max. Covid and new driver/low miles changed that. I had previously done 2x 20k+ miles intervals with them and I knew they had no issues doing that/doing what Fram said they would. My goal is 3x 7.5k oil changes for 21.5k total miles, but I forgot and this did get a little long vs. my intention. It had Rotella Gas Truck 5w-30 in it the last two fills, so I didn’t worry about the oil going over a little or the filter, either.

I agree with you, that for those of who grew up tossing a filter every 3k miles, it sounds insane. But the design and technology makes it possible. It took me a little while to get used to the idea initially. I didn’t start doing the long interval until I had seen others do it, and had cut them open and shown the results.

Hi Or,
The Ultras are rated at 20,000 miles, why is your OCI plan to take it to 21,500 miles?

 

[Revving2Redline]

Just a quick inquiry...had a vehicle been using AMSOIL, REDLINE, etc religiously would it have been clean enough to do a filter change only every 20k miles? I've seen lots of people run the EC30 and have superb results to where it would be clean enough to just use one of the @High Performance Lubricants or something comparable and not have to worry again. Seems like the Fram TG, ST 20K,Napa Gold might be the happy medium between filtering and cost.

 

[Oro_O]

Hi Or,
The Ultras are rated at 20,000 miles, why is your OCI plan to take it to 21,500 miles?

This is a fair question because it’s likely not well-understood how product lifespans and intervals are calculated. Overall, I do this for four reasons; two trivial but two serious.

Serious reasons:
1) The filter is in fact good for way more than 20,000 miles. I’ve both studied and taught statistics and I’m familiar with the methodology that manufacturer’s use to determine warranty period and recommended usage lenghts (Kaplan-Meier estimator, etc.). You put a change interval or failure estimate WELL below the statistical point failure becomes likely. Fram has used both a 20k and 25k recommendation on these over time since they were introduced. In fact, 30k is probably still a conservative interval unless in a very stressed application.
2) I worked up to doing 3x OCIs by doing prior ones at 2x OCIs (15k miles) and cutting them open and inspecting. I was conservative even when I knew I didn’t really have to be.

Less Serious reasons:
3) I do 7.5k OCIs so the math just comes out to 22.5k. I roll with that for convenience.
4) Changing filters on the toyota xMZ-fe engine is very annoying (have two in the fleet). Skipping as many as possible is desirable.

Just a quick inquiry...had a vehicle been using AMSOIL, REDLINE, etc religiously would it have been clean enough to do a filter change only every 20k miles? I've seen lots of people run the EC30 and have superb results to where it would be clean enough to just use one of the @High Performance Lubricants or something comparable and not have to worry again. Seems like the Fram TG, ST 20K,Napa Gold might be the happy medium between filtering and cost.

Sounds practical, presuming you’ve done one cleaning cycle first. I wouldn’t put one in with a fresh fill full of ester oil (for the first time) and never check it. I’d for sure use a sacrificial cheaper filter for a few k first, or do a cleaning cycle before settling into a long OCI with an ester oil (I use ester additive in my oil).

 

[Bellavita]

This is a fair question because it’s likely not well-understood how product lifespans and intervals are calculated. Overall, I do this for four reasons; two trivial but two serious.

Serious reasons:
1) The filter is in fact good for way more than 20,000 miles. I’ve both studied and taught statistics and I’m familiar with the methodology that manufacturer’s use to determine warranty period and recommended usage lenghts (Kaplan-Meier estimator, etc.). You put a change interval or failure estimate WELL below the statistical point failure becomes likely. Fram has used both a 20k and 25k recommendation on these over time since they were introduced. In fact, 30k is probably still a conservative interval unless in a very stressed application.
2) I worked up to doing 3x OCIs by doing prior ones at 2x OCIs (15k miles) and cutting them open and inspecting. I was conservative even when I knew I didn’t really have to be.

Less Serious reasons:
3) I do 7.5k OCIs so the math just comes out to 22.5k. I roll with that for convenience.
4) Changing filters on the toyota xMZ-fe engine is very annoying (have two in the fleet). Skipping as many as possible is desirable.



Sounds practical, presuming you’ve done one cleaning cycle first. I wouldn’t put one in with a fresh fill full of ester oil (for the first time) and never check it. I’d for sure use a sacrificial cheaper filter for a few k first, or do a cleaning cycle before settling into a long OCI with an ester oil (I use ester additive in my oil).

Good Morning Oro_o,
Thank you for the detailed and complete answer on your thought process for your OCI! Also thank you for sharing the C&P of your filter. I was always curious how a filter would look taken to its advertised limit with multiple oil changes.

BTW, do you know the system automatically converts the last 3 characters of your name to the "er..what?" emoticon? I noticed this in my question in #66. In my Good Morning salutation I did not capitalize the last O of your name so it wouldn't convert it!