Fram OCODs filter better then WIX

[Soobs]

Originally Posted By: Jakegday
yep, thats how its looking to me....
according to frams website, their Extra Guard filter(orange can of death), sizes ph8a, and ph3387A, both filter 95% @ 20 microns.
according to wix's website, their equivalent to the ph8a, the 51515 filters 95% @ 23 microns, and their ph3387a equivalent, the 51040 filters even worse at 95% @ 31 microns....

is it just me, or is that kinda.... sad?


FRAM uses ISO 4548-12 multi-pass testing standards to generate efficiency data. Wix uses SAE J806 single-pass testing standards. Therefore, the advertised efficiency and holding capacities can't be compared apples to apples. They don't run the same tests.

Don't buy the marketing. Buy what is best for your application.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Chef2
I've got a 2000 Dodge Caravan w/144000 or approx. 90000miles on it.I typically change the oil every 5000km/3000miles. Is it beneficial to change the oil to a synthetic this late in life and get a filter to match so I can go 15000miles or whatever between oil changes or will stuff build up in that time that needs to be flushed? I just bought some Castrol GTX 10w30 and a Fram Extra guard filter. Should I take them back and re-evaluate.?


Keep the Castrol. Replace the FRAM with a Purolator Classic. Good to go.

 

[yaris0128]

Those kind of lies are why FRAM still exists!!! STOP HELPING THEM ---- IT!!! ----!

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Chef2
I've got a 2000 Dodge Caravan w/144000 or approx. 90000miles on it.I typically change the oil every 5000km/3000miles. Is it beneficial to change the oil to a synthetic this late in life and get a filter to match so I can go 15000miles or whatever between oil changes or will stuff build up in that time that needs to be flushed? I just bought some Castrol GTX 10w30 and a Fram Extra guard filter. Should I take them back and re-evaluate.?


Keep the Castrol. Replace the FRAM with a Purolator Classic. Good to go.

or P1!

Originally Posted By: yaris0128
Those kind of lies are why FRAM still exists!!! STOP HELPING THEM ---- IT!!! ----!

I see your a FRAM lover too, good lol

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Jim_Beverlin
Fram Tough Guards filter 99% @ 20 microns. Decent filter for under $6 at Walmart.


@ is not the same as >

 

[yaris0128]

Just bought the best filter on the market, da purolator!!! for only 5.89 a piece!!! Still think that FRAM is a good deal?

 

[river_rat]

$3.49 for most Purolator Classics in my neighborhood. I could pay a buck more for a Fram, but they aren't built as well as the Puros.
The Fram media is OK, but the overall construction leaves me wanting. I'm running a Honeywell Defense (same as OCOD) right now, on the van, because I got it at a farm store on the way home for $2.50. It'll do, but I won't make a habit of it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Soobs
Originally Posted By: Jakegday
yep, thats how its looking to me....
according to frams website, their Extra Guard filter(orange can of death), sizes ph8a, and ph3387A, both filter 95% @ 20 microns.
according to wix's website, their equivalent to the ph8a, the 51515 filters 95% @ 23 microns, and their ph3387a equivalent, the 51040 filters even worse at 95% @ 31 microns....

is it just me, or is that kinda.... sad?


FRAM uses ISO 4548-12 multi-pass testing standards to generate efficiency data. Wix uses SAE J806 single-pass testing standards. Therefore, the advertised efficiency and holding capacities can't be compared apples to apples. They don't run the same tests.

Don't buy the marketing. Buy what is best for your application.



SAE J806 isn't a filtering efficiency test, per se~. It's a holding capacity test, iirc. The ISO 4548-12 has no holding capacity component to it AFAIK. It's just what efficiency the filter has at the time the holding capacity threshold is reached.

If I ever get flush enough and can work it into the hierarchy of discretionary spending, I'll pay the ante to download the specifics of all the pesky test standards.

 

[Mokanic]

Fram's target market is the china-Mart do-it-yourselfer that is looking for the cheapest price. Roll the dice,you only paid a small fortune for the car.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Fram's target market is the china-Mart do-it-yourselfer that is looking for the cheapest price. Roll the dice,you only paid a small fortune for the car.


So they sell Frams only at Walmart?

I'd better go tell every other place to stop selling them.

Glad you have no bias in your postings...

Bill

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Fram's target market is the china-Mart do-it-yourselfer that is looking for the cheapest price. Roll the dice,you only paid a small fortune for the car.
And because of Fram's "Fram it before you slam it" marketing most think it's the best filter out there.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Fram's target market is the china-Mart do-it-yourselfer that is looking for the cheapest price. Roll the dice,you only paid a small fortune for the car.
And because of Fram's "Fram it before you slam it" marketing most think it's the best filter out there.

Well we know they may not be the "best" but they do work.

Sad that people can not understand that running a Fram is NOT going to "roll the dice" any more than any other brand of filter.

Also placing folks who DO run a Fram filter into a certain segment is not very factual either.

If you don't like their product fine, don't run it but lets stop with the non-factual postings that are going on. More engines out there ARE running FRAM filters and having NO problems. For thousands and thousands of miles.

That is a fact.

Bill

PS: I don't run Frams anymore (due to only one reason, cost, but still use one here or there when bought to me) but have for hundreds of thousands of TROUBLE FREE miles. So unlike most of you I have EXPERIENCE that I am referring to. If you PERSONALLY HAVE destroyed engines due to the FRAMS then post them here.

 

[StevieC]

Bill,

Agreed Fram does get the job done, even if not as good as others. What bothers me is that people thinks it's better than a Purolator or OEM filter because of the fancy colour and the mass marketing.

I have used Fram for many years in beater vehicles without incident and I used it for 400K KM's in my Mitsubishi 2.6L 4 Cylinder I had in my dodge caravan and it lived a very long life and was a bad engine to begin with.

Now because I'm a Canadian

and we get screwed on filters I really steer away from Fram's because for the price I would rather have a no-name Wix made filter for the same price or an OEM filter.

 

[Mokanic]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Fram's target market is the china-Mart do-it-yourselfer that is looking for the cheapest price. Roll the dice,you only paid a small fortune for the car.
And because of Fram's "Fram it before you slam it" marketing most think it's the best filter out there.

Well we know they may not be the "best" but they do work.

Sad that people can not understand that running a Fram is NOT going to "roll the dice" any more than any other brand of filter.

Also placing folks who DO run a Fram filter into a certain segment is not very factual either.

If you don't like their product fine, don't run it but lets stop with the non-factual postings that are going on. More engines out there ARE running FRAM filters and having NO problems. For thousands and thousands of miles.

That is a fact.

Bill

PS: I don't run Frams anymore (due to only one reason, cost, but still use one here or there when bought to me) but have for hundreds of thousands of TROUBLE FREE miles. So unlike most of you have EXPERIENCE that I am referring to. If you have PERSONALLY HAVE the destroyed engines due to the FRAMS then post them here.

Bill, I started my career as an auto tech with Ford many years ago(80s). Fram did in fact kill many small block Ford engines and when they came in knocking we were instructed to check for the orange can of death and if the engine had one on it we were to verify that the engine was clean inside and if it was it was removed with the oil still in it and shipped back to For. Fram in fact did re-imburse Ford for a number of dead engines because of their filters. Do I have proof? No that was a long time ago.We saw oil pressure problems when I was at Toyota for over 12 years that were directly related to Fram filters. Given the number of filters that Fram sells , it was not a huge number of problems(I guess) but that's why I say you are rollong the dice. I simply believe that it is foolish to cheap out on something that is so vital to an expensive engine. Yes, I know paying more for a filter does not automatically garantee you that the filter won't have a defect but it does lessen the odds. I don't trump one brand of filter at the exclusion of others. Purolator,Champ,Baldwin,Wix,Donaldson all make high quality filters at a decent price. Even Fram's better made filters are acceptable. Funny how their better made filters have steel end caps (which they say are neccessary on the cheap models). My reference to them being marketed toward the do-it-yourselfer was not an insult,rather, it's just a fact. I'm all for getting the most for my money but as a tech that has made my living for 25yrs working on cars,i've seen enough to say no thanks to the orange can of death.

 

[Soobs]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Bill,

Agreed Fram does get the job done, even if not as good as others. What bothers me is that people thinks it's better than a Purolator or OEM filter because of the fancy colour and the mass marketing.


I think something many folks are forgetting are that many OEM filters are now made by FRAM (Honeywell). I've been using the Honeywell OEM filter in my Subaru for 65,000 miles just fine. My last Subaru saw basically nothing but cheap aftermarket Champ and FRAM filters and went 450,000 miles before a drunk smashed into me one night. It only burned about 1.5qt of oil every 1,000 miles at that mileage.

In my experience, I've had the worst luck with Purolater out of any brand. For instance.... Every Motorcraft (Purolator built) filter I checked at Walmart yesterday for my dad's F150 had a ridiculous amount of metal shavings, black grit, and overspray on the endcap than any filter I've ever seen. Obviously a bad batch, as I've never so many new filters this bad looking before, but why would they even ship them in that condition? I've had a Purolator Classic and PureOne media separation from the endcap both after low-mileage OCIs. I've had a defective ADBV in a PureOne. All that in the span of a year. I'm sure I've just had some bad luck with the brand, but still, I don't feel like Purolater is the end-all superior quality filter that many people have hyped it up to be here.

The consistently best looking filters I've used (after I cut them open from oil changes) have been Honeywell OEMs, DENSO filters, and Wix. Again, that's just my experience and I'm sure everyone has their own.

 

[StevieC]

There is a TSB for my vehicle that says that some aftermarket filters will cause knocking and a lack of oil pressure. When you talk to the mechanics at the dealership they all tell you it's FRAM that is the problem but can't name it for legal reasons.

I used a Fram before I knew this and had knocking and went back to an OEM which doesn't have the problem and isn't a repackaged FRAM.

I agree that Honeywell (FRAM) is making some filters for some companies but I'm sure they have input on the design and requirements.

Where the problem is that FRAM isn't meeting the specifications of the OEM filters it is trying to replace with it's generic off the shelf filters and this is causing problems because engines are a bit more fussy today.

 

[Soobs]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
There is a TSB for my vehicle that says that some aftermarket filters will cause knocking and a lack of oil pressure. When you talk to the mechanics at the dealership they all tell you it's FRAM that is the problem but can't name it for legal reasons.

I used a Fram before I knew this and had knocking and went back to an OEM which doesn't have the problem and isn't a repackaged FRAM.

I agree that Honeywell (FRAM) is making some filters for some companies but I'm sure they have input on the design and requirements.

Where the problem is that FRAM isn't meeting the specifications of the OEM filters it is trying to replace with it's generic off the shelf filters and this is causing problems because engines are a bit more fussy today.


I agree and I've even had brands other than FRAM cause knocking. That's why I always recommend using the best oil filter for your application instead of buying a filter based on the wild advertising campaigns that these companies run. You can either experiment with different aftermarkets or just go with OEM. I typically just go with OEM. Newer Subarus, for instance, are particular about oil filters so I stick with OEM. Other vehicles can run just about anything well.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I think something many folks are forgetting are that many OEM filters are now made by FRAM (Honeywell).


But that is a Fram custom ordered to the OEM spec's. Just like a Motor Craft is assured to meet 100% of Ford's spec's for those engine. That term, "meets or exceeds" is a license to skin the cat any way you choose and shouldn't be confused with conforming to the OEM spec.

I mean, every Ecore filter meets or exceeds OEM spec's, yet obviously doesn't conform to any of them (I don't think). The unspoken fine print is "meets or exceeds OEM performance specifications". The OEM aftermarket Honeywell/Fram also meets their material spec's too. That may well specify or allow fiberboard endcaps.

 

[StevieC]

Sound advice...

 

[Soobs]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
I think something many folks are forgetting are that many OEM filters are now made by FRAM (Honeywell).


But that is a Fram custom ordered to the OEM spec's. Just like a Motor Craft is assured to meet 100% of Ford's spec's for those engine. That term, "meets or exceeds" is a license to skin the cat any way you choose and shouldn't be confused with conforming to the OEM spec.

I mean, every Ecore filter meets or exceeds OEM spec's, yet obviously doesn't conform to any of them (I don't think). The unspoken fine print is "meets or exceeds OEM performance specifications". The OEM aftermarket Honeywell/Fram also meets their material spec's too. That may well specify or allow fiberboard endcaps.



Yes, but I was only trying to make the point that many folks won't touch a Honeywell OEM just because it's a Honeywell.