Fram Fan Wanted For Abuse

[csandste]

OK-- Every so often someone will mention that they use Fram oil filters and everyone else will pile on them quoting the MiniMopar survey showing they are crap.

I do this too. We all need hobbies.

I have read, however, that Consumer Reports ranked Fram as one of the best filters--never saw the actual report, however.

Fact is, that Fram sells more filters than anyone--cardboard ends or not. Since engines aren't falling apart all over the place, maybe these filters aren't as bad as we all think.

In fact maybe that engineer who wrote the expose on the MiniMopar site was fired for pissing in the coffee or some other nefarious deed.

So, is there anyone out there who actually uses Fram filters and is happy with them? Come on 'fess up. Maybe you know something we don't.

 

[Patman]

I happily used them from 1986 until about 1992 or 1993, at which point I started using the Amsoil filters, and then after that I realized how lucky I was that I didn't have any problems with Fram (that I was aware of, although I'm sure many of those filters went into bypass mode right away). I later cut one open and was appaled at the shoddy construction. I can't believe there are so many people out there that still think they are the best. I see people all the time at Walmart grabbing these things and I feel like giving them a lecture right there in the store!

[ June 20, 2002, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Patman]

By the way, I've been reading your posts on the Edmunds board, I like how you stick those
NO FRAM messages in your car at oil change time!

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

when discussing lubrication with people, one of the things I like to ask in class and out.

Have you ever heard an engine that rattles when you first start it in the morning but quickly quites down?

Many say yes (including myself).

So what kind of mechanical failing part is causing this problem I ask.

So many mechanics give me answers from weak oil pumps, weak or bleeding down lifters, (most common answers).

I have run across more people who tell me that Mine does that right now. My question is what kind of oil filter do you have on? 9 times out of ten, fram or one of the jiffy/quakerlube filters (all made by fram).

Once I tell them to try a different filter, I always get a call thanking me, as this was a problem they never could understand.

I'm not so much concerned with the cardboard, but quite frankly, They are not up on the quality that they once was and with them having more leaking antidrainback valves than most, I personally don't recommend nor use them.

I like the m1 filter and from apperances it looks as the oil stays cleaner longer than when I used a common paper filter.

Just my opinion.
bob

 

[widman]

I have had the same experience as Bob. And many people who complained after changing to oil I sold complained of noise and taking longer to start. When I asked what filter they used, all said that since they were switching to a good oil they wanted a good filter, and Fram must be good because it is American.
When I saw the minimopar study, I cut open a dozen filters and started explaining what the real problem was. I finally posted the pictures on my site.
http://american.netfirms.com/filtros.html

 

[satterfi]

I've been using Honda OEM filters on my CRX for 14 years. Recently I learned that Canadian made Honda filters aren't of the best quality. Now I feel like a dumbass because I assumed Honda products were top notch.

I've learned a leason.

Jon

 

[Maverick]

Satterfi -

There are two different Honda OEM filters. There are those made by Filtech which are supposedly very good. They say "Filtech" on the casing. They are made in the USA and have the following serial number on the UPC sticker they give you with the filter: 15400-POH-305.
The other one is made by Fram and say "Made in Canada". Some dealers carry the Filtechs, some carry the Frams, some carry both. Be sure and ask to see the filter before you purchase. I just bought 2 more the other day and they service guy looked at me like I was nuts and gave me some bs like "We only got Honda filters..." so I had to explain the situation to him... ;->

Maverick
'01 Accord Coupe
Mobil 1 5w-30 Honda Filtech Filters

 

[Canuk]

Satterfi-

Like Maverick says, the "Made in USA" Honda OEM filters are made by Filtech and the "Made in Canada" filters are I assume made by Fram here in Canada. I assume because, I've personally cut both apart to see their internals. The Canadian one has the typical Fram cheap cardboard endcaps on the filter media and the cheap stamped tin bypass valve body with the cheap plastic valve. Also, I noticed that the bypass valve spring seems weaker than the Filtec unit. The only thing that seems different from an actual Fram is that the media looks thicker (more depth).

The Filtec unit, on the other hand, is made with much better materials and quality. The endcaps are metal that are well glued to the filter media. The Bypass valve is much more substantial and is built right in to the media endcap. Also, the filter can itself seems to be made of thicker metal.

You can identify the cheap one by looking directly down the center tube and if you see a black plastic "button" down near the bottom (the bypass valve), then its likely a Fram in disguise.

So, if you stick to the Filtec units, you'll be ok.

 

[satterfi]

My solution to the Honda/Fram filter is a Mobil 1 filter.

I cut open the Honda/Fram and calculated that the bypass valve will open a 10 psi pressure differential. Seems a bit low. I've heard that 15-20psi is about normal for most cars.

While I was at it I cut open a Toyo Roki and an M1 for a bike and a Mazda. Their bypass valves worked out to be 21psi and 17psi.

 

[Bror Jace]

I just can't justify spending $10 on a filter.

That's right, me, the loon who blows $8 per quart on Red Line oil won't spend an extra $5 on a Mobil 1 filter.

Despite the extra-thick metal in the canister and the supposedly super-duper filter media, I just can't see spending that much above and beyond another Champion-labs-built filter.

Same with the $10 K&N oil filters. I supposed if I raced or need a guaranteed GPM flow of oil I might uase one ... but there are others that will do an as-good or perhaps even better job of filtering my oil for almost 1/2 the price.

I was all set to go with Purolator's Pure-One ($6 + tax here) and then I found a Hastings dealer which sells their comparable LF-402 for $5 ... delivered.

I hacked one apart. Despite it being not much (if any) bigger than stock, the filter cartridge unit inside was as big as it could possibly have been and the build quality (all the components) was excellent.

 

[Patman]

For the last few years I was using all the expensive filters (Mobil 1, K&N, Ultraguard Gold) however when I had to do 3k oil changes because of that warranty I switched to the $3 AC Delcos. Besides, I can only get the K&Ns up here (I bought the others in the US in the past, when I used to go down there for a lot of car related events)

After Terry mentioned that the premium oil filters don't show any benefits on the oil analysis, I was sold. My wife's car now has a K&N on it, and it will get one for the next change too since I have an extra one, but after that her car will get the AC Delco PF1127 (I'm not going with the Honda filter since up here it's Fram!)

Besides, people have been going hundreds of thousands of miles with their engines long before the premium filters came out.

 

[Bror Jace]

Patman, I think that if you change your oil & filter every 3,000 miles, you could get away with a hollow canister in place (no filter media) instead of a regular spin-on filter.

It would certainly get your car to 100,000 miles ... long out of most warranty periods.

So, that's why Fram can make cheap junk filters and get away with it for so long. Many people claim their filters spend a great deal of time in bypass mode ... when the filter really isn't filtering at all.

Stuart, hack one open and see if you think Hastings are as well made as Wix and other top-notch filters.

 

[UncleS2]

Re: Hastings filters. They're very difficult to find around here, but a local chain(ABC Auto Parts) carries Pronto for their house brand, & both the boxes and filters say "Made by Hastings". Price? Most of them, including the ones for my car, ~$2.

A few others may cost a whopping $3-$4. I haven't cut one apart yet, but do have one in the carport closet.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Patman, I think that if you change your oil & filter every 3,000 miles, you could get away with a hollow canister in place (no filter media) instead of a regular spin-on filter.

It would certainly get your car to 100,000 miles ... long out of most warranty periods.

So, that's why Fram can make cheap junk filters and get away with it for so long. Many people claim their filters spend a great deal of time in bypass mode ... when the filter really isn't filtering at all.

---

I agree, when I had my Dodge Shadow Turbo, I used to change my oil every 2000 miles with Castrol XLR 10w30 and a Fram PH3614 filter. Never had a problem, but then again I bet that oil was in perfect shape, especially since I drove about 600 miles a week with that car! Yes, I was changing the oil every 3 wks! I started out using Mobil 1 in that car, however they only had 5w30 M1 back then, and that car didn't like the 5w30 at all, it had a nasty cold start valvetrain rattle on that thin stuff.

What oil filter do you use Bror?

 

[Spector]

I will bet that the majority of people that use Frams and have never had a problem change their oil every 3000 miles. As noted above, you can get 100,000 miles easily without a filter if you change every 3000.

Makes one wonder why all of us are debating the various filters, oils etc when over the long run it may not make a hill of beans difference!

 

[Canuk]

Spector:

I've read on the net from various people how they related having engine failures because of the poor quality media in the Fram. Specifically, the media/cardboard endcaps disintegrated and ended up going into the engine and clogging up the oil galleries, with the resultant lack of oil pressure starving the bearings. The vehicles involved were Volkswagen Golfs/Jettas if memory serves correctly.

This is one of the main reasons I don't use Frams anymore, even though I do frequent oil changes. (every 5000 kms/3 months). What I do is, when I get a new car, I check out the required filter for the car by cutting a new one apart to ensure that it is a decent quality unit. Then, I purchase several years supply of them. That way, I don't have to worry if the manufacturer changes/cheapens the design.

 

[Bror Jace]

Canuck: "I check out the required filter for the car by cutting a new one apart to ensure that it is a decent quality unit. Then, I purchase several years supply of them. That way, I don't have to worry if the manufacturer changes/cheapens the design."

I wish I was that smart. Then I'd still have a good supply of Filtech OEM Honda filters for my Civic. Currently I use Hastings. But, they are probably not any better, they are a little harder to find and a little more expensive.

 

[dragboat]

csandste,
As requested here is my post that I am a happy Fram filter user but I only use them on Ford Motor Company products. They have always served me and my motors just fine.
The SJ Mobil 10/30 and a Fram PH8 went to 6k with all highway use with no apparent problems.
Many years ago I read where a Fram filter was good to 8k miles. Yes I understand they use a glue but the Chevy truck door hinges since 1988 are glued to the body also-glue can be a good thing

In my opinion that mini mopar study/story should not be taken too seriously. Just my opinion though

I use Wix on my Chevy but some don't know that where the filter spins on there is a bypass that can bypass with as little as 4 lbs of pressure on some of the earlier small and big blocks. I epoxy those things shut and make the oil run through the filter
Funny how the Mazda guys are into the factory only filters,,,made in USA right on the canister with Japanese writing on the box.There is something to the anti drain back valve issue between various filters. I have domestics so never much cared about that and our new car, well I hurt the dealer pretty good after the price haggling was near over late on a Satureday I said OK but you gotta throw in 40 factory filters,,the sales manager agreed but found out on Monday the factory filters cost them a chunk !

Supertech filters from Walmart. I have not quite figured out. The one for a Ford is quite heavy and seems to be a quality piece,,the Super tech for a Chevy small block seems to be a different make?

I posted a topic for us to try to make a list of known manufactures and the brand names that was put on them for all of our benefit,,it went over like a lead balloon!

[ July 02, 2002, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[csandste]

As far as I know, all Super Tech filters are made by Champion Labs. I think they're identical to all of the other non-premium Champion Labs filters--Deutsch, STP, etc.

Interestingly enough, I don't think all AC Delco filters are made by AC Delco, just common GM makes with outside suppliers for the rest of them.

The Edmunds oil filter thread has had a fair amount of discussion about different manufacturers. I hope that regulars here continue to visit-- less activity in last few weeks-- since continued postings with occasional hints about this forum will be a good way to continue to get new posters over here.

 

[bottgers]

Patman has a good point, but I think something needs to be added to it. He said cars were going hundreds of thousands of miles before there was such a thing as "premium" filters. True, but I think you'd probably find that most of those cars that lasted for several 100K miles had their oil changed at 3-4K mile intervals religously. Before "premium" filters and oils, people weren't using the extended drain intervals (5-7.5K for dino, and 10-15K for syn) they use today. If I changed my oil every 3K, and refused to leave it in any longer, I'd use the cheapest oil and filters I could find. But I, like many others, like to use the extended drain intervals. Therefore I think it's important to use at least a very good quality oil, and the best filter you can get. I don't mind spending $6 for a PureOne for a couple of reasons. I know it's good for at least 5K miles, and it's just about the best, if not THE best filter money can buy.