Four People Die Trapped in Burning Tesla

[CarlB]

What I find interesting is the whole lot of opinion from people who don't own Teslas. It's not that difficult, especially for someone who would be a member here which would mean they're a lot better versed on vehicle function than the average person. At this point it's just being intentionally obtuse.


I showed everybody here where it is located. I even posted a picture. It's better located and designed than GM's electronic latch system. It doesn't require pulling a lever on the floor like GM did. I'd do a demonstration video if that helped, but I just picked up my car from getting the windows tinted and I'd prefer not to jack up the tint rolling the window down a bit to line the seal up after using the manual latch.

Both designs "suck", but I'm not ditching my Vette just because GM can't figure out how to door mount the release on a plastic body car.

It's just something to understand as a owner. If the main complaint on here of a Tesla or a Corvette is the door release, then holy hell they are both excellent cars.

 

[Torrid]

I was just replying to your statement that you said people need to be trained

Instead, now you’re saying you have to ask to be trained
So if you have to be familiar with a product, I don’t know if you could call that proper
training

What car is the same as the next though? Most people tend to own the same brands over and over again. Those vehicles share similar traits most of the time. I will say it took a quick lesson for my kids to show them how to operate the exterior door latches on our first Tesla. It's basically a manual version of the electronic Jaguar design. It just doesn't present itself to you on unlock. They haven't had a problem with them at all.

Those that don't find any of this intuitive just haven't used one. It's second nature pretty quick. It's almost the difference between latches that can only be pulled underhand and the bar style handles that can be grabbed either way. It's just a different grip to operate it.

 

[Torrid]

Both designs "suck", but I'm not ditching my Vette just because GM can't figure out how to door mount the release on a plastic body car.

It's just something to understand as a owner. If the main complaint on here of a Tesla or a Corvette is the door release, then holy hell they are both excellent cars.

Absolutely my point. The gripe is coming from people that have no intention of owning either of them so it's essentially a non issue. I don't have a problem with either of them. They work the same way as well. Anyone here is more than smart enough that they'd understand how these emergency latches work. I've used the Corvette's emergency latch to test what happens and it appears just the same, it doesn't pop the window down a half an inch to clear the seal. That's the only reason for the electronic latch system, to coordinate this window function in the proper sequence with the door pop.

 

[Vercingetorix]

It would simply be better to integrate the two functions into one handle. Like most manufacturers do. It is a better design from the end user point of view. Less to learn, less potential of human error.

 

[edyvw]

What I find interesting is the whole lot of opinion from people who don't own Teslas. It's not that difficult, especially for someone who would be a member here which would mean they're a lot better versed on vehicle function than the average person. At this point it's just being intentionally obtuse.


I showed everybody here where it is located. I even posted a picture. It's better located and designed than GM's electronic latch system. It doesn't require pulling a lever on the floor like GM did. I'd do a demonstration video if that helped, but I just picked up my car from getting the windows tinted and I'd prefer not to jack up the tint rolling the window down a bit to line the seal up after using the manual latch.

Seriously? I mean, how hard is it to understand this?
1. AGAIN, the human brain, in case of an emergency, blocks other functions and ONLY remembers what it repeatedly does. I posted a photo of the F15EX and F86 cockpit. There is a GOOD reason why both airplanes have same lever for ejection, regardless that they are separated by 75 years of technological progress. In a situation like that, a pilot whose training is worth millions of dollars and knows all buttons and gauges in sleep still MUST be able to bail out. How to do that? Design lever that is same in all similar cockpits and easily accessible.
The same goes for the door handle! If your car, god forbid, caught fire, and the door did not want to open, the first thing your passenger would do is to grab a handle THEY are familiar with, and that is one that can be found in 99% of vehicles.
2. As for GM, two wrongs do not make it right.

 

[Torrid]

Seriously? I mean, how hard is it to understand this?
1. AGAIN, the human brain, in case of an emergency, blocks other functions and ONLY remembers what it repeatedly does. I posted a photo of the F15EX and F86 cockpit. There is a GOOD reason why both airplanes have same lever for ejection, regardless that they are separated by 75 years of technological progress. In a situation like that, a pilot whose training is worth millions of dollars and knows all buttons and gauges in sleep still MUST be able to bail out. How to do that? Design lever that is same in all similar cockpits and easily accessible.
The same goes for the door handle! If your car, god forbid, caught fire, and the door did not want to open, the first thing your passenger would do is to grab a handle THEY are familiar with, and that is one that can be found in 99% of vehicles.
2. As for GM, two wrongs do not make it right.

Maybe you would bother to actually say this instead of "people should be privileged to burn in Tesla" I might actually take anything you say seriously. I still completely disagree with you considering my first reaction and everyone's first reaction that has got in either of our cars is to pull the emergency release to get out of the car anyway. It's more obvious than the door pop button itself when sitting in the vehicle.

If door handle location was so important every vehicle would use the exact same design in the exact same location hinged exactly the same way. We don't have that though.

 

[edyvw]

Maybe you would bother to actually say this instead of "people should be privileged to burn in Tesla" I might actually take anything you say seriously. I still completely disagree with you considering my first reaction and everyone's first reaction that has got in either of our cars is to pull the emergency release to get out of the car anyway. It's more obvious than the door pop button itself when sitting in the vehicle.

If door handle location was so important every vehicle would use the exact same design in the exact same location hinged exactly the same way. We don't have that though.

I actually said this in my first post and got an answer: did you see stock price. Hence my answer as it seems some really think it is privalge.

As for location, it is very important. But we tend to not regulate common sense until someone without one shows up.
Hence new regulation in EU when it comes to wiper stalk, turn signal stalk etc. because of, guess who? Tesla.

 

[Torrid]

I actually said this in my first post and got an answer: did you see stock price. Hence my answer as it seems some really think it is privalge.

I make sure to look at stock prices before I buy any car.

 

[CarlB]

Maybe you would bother to actually say this instead of "people should be privileged to burn in Tesla" I might actually take anything you say seriously. I still completely disagree with you considering my first reaction and everyone's first reaction that has got in either of our cars is to pull the emergency release to get out of the car anyway. It's more obvious than the door pop button itself when sitting in the vehicle.

If door handle location was so important every vehicle would use the exact same design in the exact same location hinged exactly the same way. We don't have that though.

Plus it's being ignored the cost spent on fighter plane development vs a car. Also the cost they are willing to spend on pilots. It's not the same ball game, hell it's not even the same sport.

 

[edyvw]

Plus it's being ignored the cost spent on fighter plane development vs a car. Also the cost they are willing to spend on pilots. It's not the same ball game, hell it's not even the same sport.

That IS THE point! The cost of developing and unit cost of airplanes today is insane, and YET they have the same ejection lever as the ones 75 years ago. And it is designed for pilot that costs millions in training and knows all functions in an cockpit in his/her sleep. Yet, coming out of burning airplane must be as simple as possible, same as coming out of burning car.

 

[Torrid]

That IS THE point! The cost of developing and unit cost of airplanes today is insane, and YET they have the same ejection lever as the ones 75 years ago. And it is designed for pilot that costs millions in training and knows all functions in an cockpit in his/her sleep. Yet, coming out of burning airplane must be as simple as possible, same as coming out of burning car.

Lets take it out on Tesla instead of every other manufacturer that has done this before them then with frameless windows.

This site has become nearly unbearable with this stupidity lately.

 

[97prizm]

I don't think this is a conspiracy in the least bit. I'd be curious how many Polestars, Rivians, bolts etc have caused fatalities by fire per 1,000 or 10,000 people? This keeps a level playing field for tracking purposes. I don't see nearly the fatalities due to fires on other makes compared to Tesla. Either Tesla owners drive considerably more aggressively (which seems the case to me after observation over the last several years) or their battery chemistry seems more fire prone (which is why GM went with a different battery chemistry on the bolt). Another fatality by fire on a Tesla model 3 happened 3ish weeks ago back east after a model 3 struck an apartment complex killing a lady and her daughter in law right after dropping off two kids at school.

 

[Torrid]

I think a lot of the people feel like they're going to be forced down the EV route they don't want to go down and Tesla were the first manufacturer to sell a half-decent EV.

I forgot to reply to this part of it earlier. It's not ok to take it out on EV owners if this is what people think is going to happen(this is an in general statement and not directed at you, you've been more than polite and courteous). Just because I like EVs doesn't mean I want ICE vehicles to be banned and assuming so and using that as firepower to attack EV drivers is uncalled for. This is the most common conversation I have happen in person. Apparently I work with a lot of opinionated people and this is their first complaint.

It shouldn't be considered an acceptance of this behavior when buying an EV. Some people need to really control themselves. Buying a car isn't a vote for political policies or an endorsement of a political party and if it was it doesn't make it ok to attack that person for their choice.

 

[Torrid]

It would simply be better to integrate the two functions into one handle. Like most manufacturers do. It is a better design from the end user point of view. Less to learn, less potential of human error.

I have thought of that too. Make it a two stage switch that triggers the window before hitting the latch itself. Heck it could even just use the location of the current emergency switch since I think that's a better location than where the popper button is. It seems they copied the Corvette while putting the emergency handle in a better location.

I keep wanting to say the location of the emergency handle reminds me of the Mazda RX7, but I haven't been in one in nearly 20 years so I might be misremembering that information. 90's Mazda or Ford comes to mind, which would make sense with them being affiliated at the time.

 

[Torrid]

I don't think this is a conspiracy in the least bit. I'd be curious how many Polestars, Rivians, bolts etc have caused fatalities by fire per 1,000 or 10,000 people? This keeps a level playing field for tracking purposes. I don't see nearly the fatalities due to fires on other makes compared to Tesla. Either Tesla owners drive considerably more aggressively (which seems the case to me after observation over the last several years) or their battery chemistry seems more fire prone (which is why GM went with a different battery chemistry on the bolt). Another fatality by fire on a Tesla model 3 happened 3ish weeks ago back east after a model 3 struck an apartment complex killing a lady and her daughter in law right after dropping off two kids at school.

Considering Tesla is almost half of the whole EV market(48%), I think it's just by sheer number of cars on the road that there would be more stories than other manufacturers. They also do happen to be some of the fastest cars on the market so that may contribute. Beyond that the battery is structural to the chassis of the car so that's a risk with a crash hard enough to crush the battery.

 

[OVERKILL]

What car is the same as the next though? Most people tend to own the same brands over and over again.

Up until 3 weeks ago, my dad had never owned an FCA/Stellantis product, and his newest vehicle was 21 years old. Yet he had no problem using the door handles (inside and out) on his new Grand Cherokee L without any training or guidance because it's intuitive, which it's supposed to be, in case you have to do it in a hurry/emergency.

Now, he did get a couple of hours of orientation on the vehicle, mostly to go over the cameras, navigation/infotainment, self-driving, adaptive cruise...etc, but he didn't need any of that to get in/out, or drive the vehicle.

 

[Torrid]

Up until 3 weeks ago, my dad had never owned an FCA/Stellantis product, and his newest vehicle was 21 years old. Yet he had no problem using the door handles (inside and out) on his new Grand Cherokee L without any training or guidance because it's intuitive, which it's supposed to be, in case you have to do it in a hurry/emergency.

Now, he did get a couple of hours of orientation on the vehicle, mostly to go over the cameras, navigation/infotainment, self-driving, adaptive cruise...etc, but he didn't need any of that to get in/out, or drive the vehicle.

I didn't need guidance on how to get in and out of a Tesla either, so I still don't understand what the problem is here. The car even told me when I pulled the emergency handle instead of using the button. My natural reaction was to use the manual handle as many do the first time.

 

[OVERKILL]

I didn't need guidance on how to get in and out of a Tesla either, so I still don't understand what the problem is here. The car even told me when I pulled the emergency handle instead of using the button. My natural reaction was to use the manual handle as many do the first time.

See, when I test drove a Model 3, I had no idea how to get out, I had to glance around until I saw the little button that opened the door. I thought it was a bit stupid, and still do, what's wrong with a conventional handle that everyone is familiar with? Same with eliminating the turn signal stalk, it's ridiculous. And, as you know, I'm not anti-Tesla or anti-EV, but IMHO, these are just dumb design decisions.

 

[Torrid]

See, when I test drove a Model 3, I had no idea how to get out, I had to glance around until I saw the little button that opened the door. I thought it was a bit stupid, and still do, what's wrong with a conventional handle that everyone is familiar with? Same with eliminating the turn signal stalk, it's ridiculous. And, as you know, I'm not anti-Tesla or anti-EV, but IMHO, these are just dumb design decisions.

I'm not a fan of the lack of the turn signal stalk or removal of the shifter stalk. Then again both of my cars still have the stalks.

 

[edyvw]

Lets take it out on Tesla instead of every other manufacturer that has done this before them then with frameless windows.

This site has become nearly unbearable with this stupidity lately.

No one here prevents you from opening a topic about people not being able to get out of burning vehicles of other manufacturers.