Woman died inside burning SUV that started 'going crazy'; doors wouldn't unlock

[leadcounsel]

I'm trying to understand the scenario where this is even a possible outcome. Thinking back to all my vehicles one of five things was true.
1. The interior door handle would unlock the door on the first, or the second pull. Back doors could be child locked to prevent this feature (and windows). I think every vehicle I've owned made since 1990 has had this feature.
2. Most cars had some type of physical button, tab, or lever to lock/unlock the door manually, either on the top of the door or near the door handle. I can think of only 1 that the lock knob fully recessed inside the door, but that one definitely would open using the door handle itself.
3. While manual windows are long gone, if the battery works the windows should work unless broken mechanism.
4. It's glass. Life or death = bust it out. I always have something capable of busting out a window.

Horrifying and tragic, but how does this even happen?

 

[MrGraybeard]

How odd. My ‘94 530i had a mechanical linkage at each door for both the handle and the lock button. You could open the door with a complete electrical failure.

And how did you roll down the window?

The car had remote locks that never worked in the 15 years I owned the car. I locked/unlocked it with the key, which was a signal to the car to "double lock" the door. When double locked, the door couldn't be opened from inside.
Normally I drove with the doors unlocked. But I did something (can't remember what) that double locked the door while I was inside. The car functioned normally otherwise, so I could turn the key in the ignition and start the car, open the windows, play the radio, etc.

BMW had a crazy array of antitheft systems at the time. Alpine in the early '90s, my car had EWS 1 with a DWA immobilizer. After Jan 1, 1995 came EWS 2, with a transponder chip in the key and an antenna coil around the ignition lock. A lot of cars of the period have had the systems disabled because they became troublesome as they aged

 

[edhackett]

Why would any car company build a car that did not have a manual door handle?

I did a google search of 2009 Dodge Journey interior. Every picture that shows the relevant areas show a door handle and manual lock knob both driver and passenger side. Please fact check me by doing the same search and see if you come up with something that shows differently.

Not a 2009 Journey, but my 2014 Ram opens the door with the handle when locked and holding down the lock button has no effect of the door opening or ability to unlock the door with the manual knob.

Ed

 

[Skippy722]

Been awhile since I drove a Journey, but going back to 2004 in a Grand Caravan if the front doors are locked you can feel it in the handle when you pull it as it forces it to unlock and then another step where it actuates the door latch. All the Chrysler vehicles I’ve driven and owned since then have been the same way.

 

[kschachn]

The car had remote locks that never worked in the 15 years I owned the car. I locked/unlocked it with the key, which was a signal to the car to "double lock" the door. When double locked, the door couldn't be opened from inside.
Normally I drove with the doors unlocked. But I did something (can't remember what) that double locked the door while I was inside. The car functioned normally otherwise, so I could turn the key in the ignition and start the car, open the windows, play the radio, etc.

BMW had a crazy array of antitheft systems at the time. Alpine in the early '90s, my car had EWS 1 with a DWA immobilizer. After Jan 1, 1995 came EWS 2, with a transponder chip in the key and an antenna coil around the ignition lock. A lot of cars of the period have had the systems disabled because they became troublesome as they aged

Well you had to specifically double lock it with the key, a normal “key lock” wasn’t double locked. And yes only a malfunction would cause that from the inside as there was no way to double lock the doors from inside the vehicle.

You could of course lock your wife in the car from the outside.

 

[Chris142]

Some are, some aren't. Ford vehicles from what I've seen would always unlock if you pull the inside handle.

Our Toyota does. My Jeep does not

 

[JeffKeryk]

I did a google search of 2009 Dodge Journey interior. Every picture that shows the relevant areas show a door handle and manual lock knob both driver and passenger side. Please fact check me by doing the same search and see if you come up with something that shows differently.

Not a 2009 Journey, but my 2014 Ram opens the door with the handle when locked and holding down the lock button has no effect of the door opening or ability to unlock the door with the manual knob.

Ed

View attachment 135741View attachment 135743

I don't know anything about this specific vehicle. It is possible that the lady, in her state of emotion, just know about the manual door handle.
Who knows if she could have used a window hammer?

 

[MrGraybeard]

Well you had to specifically double lock it with the key, a normal “key lock” wasn’t double locked. And yes only a malfunction would cause that from the inside as there was no way to double lock the doors from inside the vehicle.

You could of course lock your wife in the car from the outside.

My '95, build date 10/94, would double lock automatically if the car was locked with the key. No special "double lock" procedure required.

 

[edhackett]

I don't know anything about this specific vehicle. It is possible that the lady, in her state of emotion, just know about the manual door handle.
Who knows if she could have used a window hammer?

The Dodge Journey isn't a high end vehicle. I don't think there's anyway to open the door other than the handle.

Elgefino mentioned the possibility of a constant signal to the lock solenoid preventing the handle from moving. I don't know anything about how these mechanisms are designed or if any regulations govern the design. I can see how it could be a possibility. Holding down the lock knob on my truck blocks the door handle movement. There's not much leverage on that Jeep door handle. There were three other doors to try, but it was a panic situation.

I'd planned on placing an Amazon order later tonight. I'm going to add an automatic center punch to keep in the console of my truck.

Ed

 

[Al]

Horrible. I smell a lawsuit

 

[michaelluscher]

I don't remember DC/FCA products of that era having dead locks (handles that disengage)

A tragedy nonetheless, a recall could result

 

[Cujet]

The lock and alarm system in my Jag X-Type regularly malfunctions by unlocking itself. However, one day I found myself unable to open the door, even when I manually unlocked the door lock and pulled the handle. I tried all 4 doors, NOPE. , the next time it happened, the very first thing I did was to roll down all the windows. Before I checked anything else.

Shutting the car off, pulling the key out, and restarting fixes it.

Of course, with the right tools, it's easy to break a car window out.

 

[clinebarger]

I know very little about MoPar products, but the Dane County Sheriff's office report says the vehicle had a Totally Integrated Power Module, or TIPM, which had been the subject of a recall because associated wiring could "become contaminated, potentially causing the connector to melt and/or catch fire." The VIN of the vehicle that burned was not on the recall list, but the model and year is.

A Recall dated March of 2009 for the Inverter Connector melting & catching fire, Relocate Inverter Connector & remove it's fuse in the TIPM.

TIPM's across many Chrysler platforms spanning many years are problematic/failure prone.

 

[2EHA]

lots of euro cars have superlock/deadlock bmw is the most notorious

really funny to put your friend in motorized jail

 

[edyvw]

The first thing I do when I get a vehicle is to disable automatic locking. If it is not an option, I will find a way to code it out.

 

[CR94]

... I know my Toyota's, I think all of them, if the door is locked, the inside door pull will *not* unlock it. I consider that a major oversight, major major design fail. ...

That's not true of my Toyota front doors. I don't think it was true of my mother's 2000 Camry, either. Also, the manual lock control would always work, regardless of any electrical failure.

 

[SeanE]

I'd be tempted to dismiss the story, but I know my Toyota's, I think all of them, if the door is locked, the inside door pull will *not* unlock it. I consider that a major oversight, major major design fail. My prior VW, first pull wouldn't do anything, second pull would unlock and open the door--I thought that was wisely designed. When seconds count, rational thinking is the first thing to quit.

I think both my Honda and Toyota's do that, come to think of it. Not sure how they've gotten away with it. One more thing we "need" a law for, door pulls that do their job. Yeah if I manually flip the lock lever all is well--but see comment about thinking above.

My 2013 Camry will unlock if the interior door handle is pulled, but only on the front doors.
My 1997 Accord did not do this at all
I keep a utility knife with a spring loaded window breaker in my console, hope I’ll never need it though.

 

[DriveHard]

Invest in a combo seatbeltcutter glassbreaker too. Smash the door window and crawl out. Inhalation is a terrible way to die.

Practice. Pop hood, lock yourself in the car, and have someone disconnect battery. See how big of a trap your car becomes.

I'm supposed to practice breaking my windows???
I agree 100% with practice, as I am a life long athlete, but there are some things that are just not practical to practice.

 

[SeanE]

I'm supposed to practice breaking my windows???
I agree 100% with practice, as I am a life long athlete, but there are some things that are just not practical to practice.

Perhaps a junkyard? I’d pick a car that has multiple similar models in the yard, that way you’re not screwing over someone who needed a window for their car and the only one in the yard is smashed out (I found the first gen Ford Focus to be very populated at my local pick-n-pull, about a dozen of them)

 

[supton]

That's not true of my Toyota front doors. I don't think it was true of my mother's 2000 Camry, either. Also, the manual lock control would always work, regardless of any electrical failure.

Just tested this morning. 1999 Camry, made in Japan, power locks naturally. Doors locked, inside door pulls do nadda. Tested both left side doors.

Was made painfully aware of this "problem" this morning. My usual to-do when starting is to leave the door open while starting (I long ago disabled the seatbelt chime), that way the locks don't do their thing. BUT because of this little test, the doors locked. Drove 10 miles from home, realized I forgot my phone. Doubled back, stopped, and... bobcat in my yard! slammed car into park and the MF'ing door would not open for me.

Yes, the little door lock thing can be manually flipped. I've owned the car for 6 years now, driven 110k in that time, in and out twice a day. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used the manual lever as opposed to either the key (in the door) or the electric button.

The first thing I do when I get a vehicle is to disable automatic locking. If it is not an option, I will find a way to code it out.

I've long wanted to on this one, but it's not in code. Supposedly if I crawl up under the dash I can cut some wire. I recall looking for it and giving up, it's not that comfortable of a job. Now I have more reason to go find it I guess.