Here is another take on EV developments at Ford. The interesting takeaway from this article is how Ford misread their own market and how concentrated EV sales are to a very narrow demographic niche. Actually it is the intersection of three demgraphics, two of which most anyone could have guessed. https://robertbryce.substack.com/p/fords-351-billion-ev-fiasco
Ford's $35.1 Billion EV Fiasco
- Thread starter Astro_Guy
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Toyotas low risk approach as a major manufacturer adopting EVs could prove out to be one of their best decisions. As for some of their recent engineering missteps, well....Tundra, I'm talking about you.
People deny buying EVs because V-signalling but that has to be a chunk of it.
Oddly I am not in that group fully - like hardly. YET we buck the trend, because we will be buying the right EV. It makes sense where we live. Not many fuel stations close (and hate gas stations), easy to do 100% home charging, short county travel distances, relatively low electric rates, etc. Point being don't label everyone who owns an EV with the L loser group.
Oddly I am not in that group fully - like hardly. YET we buck the trend, because we will be buying the right EV. It makes sense where we live. Not many fuel stations close (and hate gas stations), easy to do 100% home charging, short county travel distances, relatively low electric rates, etc. Point being don't label everyone who owns an EV with the L loser group.
This.
Going down the middle then advancing where market trends go is never a bad idea.
Put in simpler terms: "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
If as predicted this April, California gas prices will go north of $8/gal following the retreat of major oil producers. We might see an inversion of the rationale for buying EVs. Virtual signaling will give way to economic reality. The cost of keeping an ICE will simply be way more expensive than plugging in an EV. Plus gas scarcity also could be a concern. This will be an interesting experiment.
4wd
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The Western Gateway pipeline can bring relief - but it’s a few years out there …
Ford took the short path (easy path?) to electrification; they put electric drivetrain in their cash cow F-150. GM did the same with the Bolt; they used an existing platform. Neither are pure play architecture. And neigher have ever made a penny. The "Wait till the big boys get in" mantra has proven to be much ado about nothing. It was supposed to be easy.
I give Ford kudos for breaking out the EV financials; others bury their losses in the numbers.
I wish Ford well in their endeavours; they will get there.
$8 gallon? Please. I just paid $3.59 for rag at Costco. Of course that's the lowest in quite a while.
I give Ford kudos for breaking out the EV financials; others bury their losses in the numbers.
I wish Ford well in their endeavours; they will get there.
$8 gallon? Please. I just paid $3.59 for rag at Costco. Of course that's the lowest in quite a while.
Throw in some rolling blackouts, from a hot summer and more EVs, and it'll get super interesting.
If an EV works for you, great, buy it and use. The problem is where the government decided we are going to step in and force everyone to use EVs, whether they actually fit your use or not. There are so many cases where they are a terrible choice yet we were suppose to just accept the new EV reality. Reality is, EVs are still terrible in a lot of categories and they aren't going to fit every use case without significant improvements.
There are people on both side with irrational views of both ICE and EVs. ICE drivers blocking EV charging spots and keying EV cars, while EV drivers with the mentality that their choice of vehicle somehow makes them above those filthy, low class ICE drivers and that they should just accept that EVs are great and run on unicorn farts.
Only way I would consider an EV would be if I could get a very cheap one that I could use to drive around town and charge it at home on a 120 volt outlet. And by very cheap I mean like $5-7K. I own multiple vehicles already with no car payments, there is no sense in me buying a $70-$100K EV to replace my truck that can't do what my truck does. And yes, I do haul and tow stuff with my truck on top of using it as a general purpose vehicle.
There are people on both side with irrational views of both ICE and EVs. ICE drivers blocking EV charging spots and keying EV cars, while EV drivers with the mentality that their choice of vehicle somehow makes them above those filthy, low class ICE drivers and that they should just accept that EVs are great and run on unicorn farts.
Only way I would consider an EV would be if I could get a very cheap one that I could use to drive around town and charge it at home on a 120 volt outlet. And by very cheap I mean like $5-7K. I own multiple vehicles already with no car payments, there is no sense in me buying a $70-$100K EV to replace my truck that can't do what my truck does. And yes, I do haul and tow stuff with my truck on top of using it as a general purpose vehicle.
AZjeff
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They're out there. If I had room I'd have a cheap Leaf for a town car.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...modelCode=LEAF&numRecords=25&sortBy=relevance
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/d/phoenix-christmas-deals-ho-ho-ho2015/7902049154.html
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/d/laveen-2012-nissan-leaf-sv/7896826565.html
Ford mildly had my interest when it was first announced as a contractor stripper truck but it was still a hard sell at $40k. Greed then quickly took over, I dont remember what $40k starting turned into, but the end result was gaslighting themselves. No sympathy here.
Now add that the EU has backtracked on their 2035 ice ban. It will be interesting to see where that goes.
Same as the original Cybertruk. No sympathy here, either.
Years ago before this nutbaggery I thought trucks just can’t be EVs. Certainly not consumer pickups or OTR trucks.
Ford kinda got it but failure ultimately
Ford kinda got it but failure ultimately
+1 IIRC it was last winter many people were complaining how the cold weather messed with their EVs and public charging. It was all over the news, so hot summer is not only a problem season, the winter can be worse.
Early on, Ford and Tesla were in casual talks about using the Tesla drivetrain architecture for the F150.
If that had happened, the F150 EV would have been a huge success. Not to mention a great learning experience for both companies.
But let's face it, pouch cells in a box are tempting due to high energy density and it's no surprise they are difficult to manage. Furthermore, reinventing every part has a cost that may be impossible to bear.
We get numb to hearing about 'billions' in losses (or gains), but the fact remains companies like Ford don't have 1/3 of a Trillion dollars to 'throw away'. Never did, never will.
If that had happened, the F150 EV would have been a huge success. Not to mention a great learning experience for both companies.
But let's face it, pouch cells in a box are tempting due to high energy density and it's no surprise they are difficult to manage. Furthermore, reinventing every part has a cost that may be impossible to bear.
We get numb to hearing about 'billions' in losses (or gains), but the fact remains companies like Ford don't have 1/3 of a Trillion dollars to 'throw away'. Never did, never will.
The first Tesla after the original Roadster was a joint effort between Tesla, Toyota and Panasonic, the RAV4 EV 2nd gen.
Toyota foolishly invested in the Tesla snotty nosed kid, soon to be belly up. Toyota made money on their investment and then got out. Had they stayed, they would have faired crazy well and who knows where the EV market would be today.
My neighbors had one. I think they were all white. Not many were made.
At the time all the majors were going all in on EVs, I thought they were making a big mistake. You can't make people buy something they don't want or can't use.
Except for health insurance, apparently.
They are being flooded with Chinese EV's at low prices.
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