Are you assuming a 40% percent to losses to require a 1.5MW connection?To deliver 75kWh in 5 minutes requires a 1.5MW connection.
Are you assuming a 40% percent to losses to require a 1.5MW connection?To deliver 75kWh in 5 minutes requires a 1.5MW connection.
More like where are the all the raw materials to build these batteries if batteries become our main fuel source?Where are the EV batteries that can do low to full charge in 5 min?
where is the infrastructure?Where are the EV batteries that can do low to full charge in 5 min?
95% of existing can be recycled, including power tool, cell phone, and other batteries. A lot better than oil burning and it’s got to be harvested new all the time. If a million car batteries are made , 950,000 of those eventually go back into making new batteries.More like where are the all the raw materials to build these batteries if batteries become our main fuel source?
Eventually, maybe.95% of existing can be recycled, including power tool, cell phone, and other batteries. A lot better than oil burning and it’s got to be harvested new all the time. If a million car batteries are made , 950,000 of those eventually go back into making new batteries.
It’s numbers, 950,000 out of 1,000,000 , if recycling is implemented and stays, means 950,000 new batteries don’t have to use new material. Thats a lot. Compare that to oil,where 100% needs to be replaced as far as combustion goes. We have motor oil recycling, why is that? It doesn’t mean there will be no more oil drilling but that much less. 95% lithium ion battery recycling is fantastic.Eventually, maybe.
There are 1.4 billion vehicles in the world.
That number will only increase. EV’s are a bandaid over a sucking chest wound.
I'll tell you what a black hole is: using truck and ship to haul liquid fuel from deep ocean drilling platform, to a terminal, with a pipeline to a refinery, to a truck and haul it all the way to the top of Rocky Mountain, to a dedicated plot of land that people drive their cars to and then all to burn at 20-30% efficiency (typical gasoline engine). Yet we are doing it because it is more popular than the alternatives (horses or public transit).Many cities are already making changes to emphasize other forms of transit. In some cases you can start by re-striping roadways. Simple and cheap.
Throwing money into a black hole of incredibly expensive and ever expanding roadways that will never meet induced demand is a major reason why EV’s will not succeed. There are simply too many car trips being made. And every year means more and more are added.
There is neither the will power, nor money to continue to expand roadway infrastructure AND improve the electrical grid to support infinite EV growth. It’s a zero sum game. Something has to give.
Urbanization is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Incentivizing alternate forms of transport to reduce overall number of car trips. Dedicated bus lanes, sidewalks where people actually want to be, safe bikelanes, etc. all very cheap compared to our ever growing expenditures on roadways that will never meet induced demand.I'll tell you what a black hole is: using truck and ship to haul liquid fuel from deep ocean drilling platform, to a terminal, with a pipeline to a refinery, to a truck and haul it all the way to the top of Rocky Mountain, to a dedicated plot of land that people drive their cars to and then all to burn at 20-30% efficiency (typical gasoline engine). Yet we are doing it because it is more popular than the alternatives (horses or public transit).
What you are suggesting is urbanization, it is a trend all over the world for sure, yet this is a very different subject than whether gasoline engine is better or battery EV is better. People will not jump from gasoline engine to urban living because gasoline has high infrastructure cost. People has picked suburb living when they have the money and choices due to higher quality of life and reasonable commute distance. If anything the work from home trend is going to increase that move. Yes, they will reduce their commute frequency and live further away, but that is not because of EV vs gasoline vehicles.
Will we run out of electrical generation capacity to power everything? It is unlikely if the EV popularity gradually increase. We didn't handicap our power plant when the internet started, or when people migrate to heat pump heating from natural gas, or when people migrate from gas stove to induction stove. Eventually the generation capacity will match (with the addition of natural gas plants).
The problem of transmission or scheduling though, we would likely need time of use and battery charging off-vehicle (battery swap) to really address that (because commute time may land on low-demand hours). Also with off-vehicle charging you can reduce demand for urban charging infrastructure, you can carry spare batteries for road trips, you can lease them for long trips only, you can sell low range used batteries to 3rd world for local use (say solar panel in rural off grid homes only to power the fridge and light at night), and you can have cheap batteries sent to non-auto use when they are retired without expensive custom infrastructure specific to vehicles.
I don't think the infrastructure strain is big if you design EVs correctly, it will be sorted out eventually and I think Europe and China would have the incentive to make it happen.
The question was not if it can be recycled but where will the "initial" raw materials come from? Will California allow mining?95% of existing can be recycled, including power tool, cell phone, and other batteries. A lot better than oil burning and it’s got to be harvested new all the time. If a million car batteries are made , 950,000 of those eventually go back into making new batteries.
If you believe people are gonna start riding busses, riding bikes and walking, well good luck with that.Urbanization is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Incentivizing alternate forms of transport to reduce overall number of car trips. Dedicated bus lanes, sidewalks where people actually want to be, safe bikelanes, etc. all very cheap compared to our ever growing expenditures on roadways that will never meet induced demand.
But hey, EV’s are the answer. Good luck with that.
Build more roads then. That seems to be handling our traffic needs, right? EV’s don’t solve the fundamental problem with cars. Emissions are a bi-product. We are trying to cure a symptom, not the disease, and we are killing our electrical grid in the meantime.If you believe people are gonna start riding busses, riding bikes and walking, well good luck with that.
Urbanization is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about Incentivizing alternate forms of transport to reduce overall number of car trips. Dedicated bus lanes, sidewalks where people actually want to be, safe bikelanes, etc. all very cheap compared to our ever growing expenditures on roadways that will never meet induced demand.
Build a natural gas plant in California right now. Do it. I dare you. It took a declaration of emergency to even authorize construction of “temporary” gas plants this year. (Hint: They will never turn those off.) Gas plants are going offline, not the other way around. They are being replaced by renewables that remove off peak demand so gas plants can’t make money, and then can’t meet peak demand when needed. Enter battery storage demands - it won’t be enough.
Also, EV popularity isn’t “gradually increasing” it’s being mandated wholesale. Let’s not pretend this is some organic or incentivized adoption process. California is mandating EV’s after 2035. 13 years to build out everything needed to never sell another new ICE or hybrid in California.
There were several ways to deal with emissions. The government decided draconian mandates were the easiest way to do so, and ended up kicking the can (transportation and electrical infrastructure) down the road. Meanwhile, affluent early adopters get to look down their noses at the plebes who can afford neither the cost nor inflexibility of EV’s.
“The performance!” “Just buy solar” “I have 4 other cars to cover my needs, why can’t you get by on just one EV you poor person.”
But hey, EV’s are the answer. Good luck with that.
FYI, people want higher quality of life voted for more roads, pay for suburb development, gated community, driving everywhere, parking lot everywhere, etc. I can't even believe people want a crew cab when a more comfortable minivan or sedan is the obvious better choice, but hey, that's what they want and they are paying for it.Build more roads then. That seems to be handling our traffic needs, right? EV’s don’t solve the fundamental problem with cars. Emissions are a bi-product. We are trying to cure a symptom, not the disease, and we are killing our electrical grid in the meantime.
Productive.
The only way to do that is.... traffic jam..... not even $7 a gallon is going to do it.If you believe people are gonna start riding busses, riding bikes and walking, well good luck with that.
how about h2 ?
because these ev typical metals are getting expensive,
Bingo. The electrical grid has grown every single day since the early 1900s and will continue to grow as needed.Killing our electrical grid? Don't be silly. New homes are build and new powerlines are laid all the time and they didn't "kill" the grid, they just pay to expand it when they can make a buck off of it, and they just pay more for power plant somewhere, one way or another.
Except for the initial cost of a new EV. Even with some of the buyer credits/incentives they are still going to cost more than an ICE in the same basic sized vehicle. Then if you don't want a partial charge with 12 hrs of charging on 120V/15A house power, a bunch of money will have to be spent to get 240V charging at home.People used to say the same thing about hybrid being a waste of money and it was rich eco-nut people looking down on poor gas-burner people, now it is just a tool commercial delivery uses, taxi driver uses, long distance commuter uses, and cheap skate uses. Nothing sexy and nothing cool, just plain old money savings.
Except for the initial cost of a new EV. Even with some of the buyer credits/incentives they are still going to cost more than an ICE in the same basic sized vehicle. Then if you don't want a partial charge with 12 hrs of charging on 120V/15A house power, a bunch of money will have to be spent to get 240V charging at home.
Electricity cost at some point may become way more expensive for EV specific charging, so that part of owning an EV may also diminish as time goes on. The early adopters are the ones who made out with big buying incentives and cheap power for charging. As time goes on some of those "perks" will diminish. The only way EVs will be bought by lower/middle class people is when they can buy one for for $25 to $30K that's decent enough to have good range and last 10+ years.
Go to near the end of the video (28:00 mark) where she talks about the price of these two EVs. I wouldn't call these EVs "high end" in today's EV market. Talking about base prices of $42K+ and the price goes up quickly from there.