ford-teases-a-new-cable-capable-of-charging-evs-in-5-minutes

Model Q would likely compete with the (pre pandemic) 20k segment cost wise. I can see it totally screw the Audi A3 and Mazda 3S demand but my main doubt is if Tesla would have really want to sell it at the 25k price, but instead try to sell mainly packages that add up to 30-35k price in reality. Model 3 in reality is more of a 40-45k car instead of a 35k one, so I'm not counting on Model Q / 2 being only 25k pre-pandemic (or whatever a loaded up Corolla cost afterward).
 
If I lived in a cold northern climate, I sure wouldn't invest in a $50K EV and the money needed to 240V charge or solar panels for charging at home. Plus if you don't have any other place to charge it, those are the only options that make sense. EVs are more suited for warmer all year climates (including more sun for solar panels if desired) and areas where there are lots of charging options. And I wouldn't invest all that money into and EV if it couldn't be used all year round without some of the pains involved when using one in very cold climates, and then rely on my ICE because the EV couldn't cut-it. There would be a lot of people needing/wanting both an ICE and EV in cases like that. I wonder if someone who owns and EV in CA or FL would own and use it the same in Minnesota or Montana ... I doubt it.
 
If I lived in a cold northern climate, I sure wouldn't invest in a $50K EV and the money needed to 240V charge or solar panels for charging at home. Plus if you don't have any other place to charge it, those are the only options that make sense. EVs are more suited for warmer all year climates (including more sun for solar panels if desired) and areas where there are lots of charging options. And I wouldn't invest all that money into and EV if it couldn't be used all year round without some of the pains involved when using one in very cold climates, and then rely on my ICE because the EV couldn't cut-it. There would be a lot of people needing/wanting both an ICE and EV in cases like that. I wonder if someone who owns and EV in CA or FL would own and use it the same in Minnesota or Montana ... I doubt it.
Depends on the use case. Just like any car. A soccor Mom is better off with an Odyssey than a Corvette, right?
 
Depends on the use case. Just like any car. A soccor Mom is better off with an Odyssey than a Corvette, right?
I'm talking about environmental conditions and infrastructure concerns ... not what vehicle is best for what they want to use it for.
 
I'm talking about environmental conditions and infrastructure concerns ... not what vehicle is best for what they want to use it for.
Agreed. That's part of the use case. One of the 1st thing I ask prospective buyers is, "How ya gonna charge?"
You might be surprised at the look on some of their faces.
I also tell them, "Personally, I would not own an EV if I could not charge at home."
 
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I'm talking about environmental conditions and infrastructure concerns ... not what vehicle is best for what they want to use it for.
People wouldn't live in the rural and commute 120 miles a day to work if there's "environmental and infrastructure concerns". Yet people still live in the rural and commute 120 miles a day to work.

The thing is, people like to live with quality of life they can afford. We all know it is hard on the environment but we still try our best to live the highest quality of life we can afford to get, that's human nature.

EV is a quality of life to some, it may not be more eco friendly and it may not be easier on the infrastructure (nor are pickup trucks and SUVs getting only 20mpg in 2021, a Chevy Bolt is likely way better). However many still like EV because they like their cars to be quiet, they like how smooth it is (which is why many buy V6 or V8 instead of 4 cylinder), and charging is more convenient if you don't have the range issue in your commute.

I don't believe EV will save the world but IMO it can't be worse than drilling oil in the deep ocean (Exxon Valdez, BP Deepwater Horizon, etc), hauling it to shore to refine (every couple of years we get a refinery fire), then pump it up 6000 above sea level, and then use a truck to haul it to a gas station 1 mile away from your house, and finally, you have to drive 1 mile to pump it into your tank. Electricity has way less pumping loss going uphill than liquid fuel for sure. Plus, a fraction of the electricity is generated from nuclear, wind, solar, hydro, and natural gas is way cleaner than gasoline in local emission.
 
People wouldn't live in the rural and commute 120 miles a day to work if there's "environmental and infrastructure concerns". Yet people still live in the rural and commute 120 miles a day to work.
Or on the other hand, they will never buy an EV if that was the case because it would be way too much cost and trouble for them. Or they would have to have an ICE for the majority of their driving, and just have the EV as an expensive play toy. That was my whole point, and that's why ICE won't be going away for a long time.

At this point in time, EVs are mainly suited for heavily populated areas where there's lots of infrastructure to support them (charging stations, more sun for home solar panels, etc), and where people don't have super long commutes every day. And I'd bet if you could show a map of the USA of the "EV population", most of them live in the more warmer states. And another interesting thing would be to determine the use of EVs in the colder northern states as a function of the month of the year. My bet is the people who do own them in states with very cold winters don't use them as much in Nov- Feb as they do in Mar- Oct for instance. The ICE is still probably their main vehicle in the dead of winter.
 
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You make some good points. Not to mention the time for oil changes or other maintenance item that also add up throughout the year that doesn't need done on an EV. I think time would equal out in the end if you have a level 2 charger and an insulated garage.

I wouldn't classify my pitsops as nascar style. Haha But I don't loaf around either. It bugs me to no end when I have to go more than a mile off the interstate to get gas, food or potty break though.

What about the service centers if an owner has an issue? For me the closest one is about 100mi away (Omaha, NE and I live 100mi north of that), does Tesla pickup the car and give you a loaner at no cost if it's under warranty? That's something I think a lot of rural customers consider as well. I'm not even in a rural area and that's my situation.

Most guys with these I know have a 50 amp dryer or rv plug put in, dont know if thats considered level 2 or not?

On pit stopping = the supercharger network is well placed being right off main exits as opposed to electrify americas network which are often in malls or big box store parking lots (no one mentions that)

I typically mix a fuel/ charge stop with a short break coffee or a snack in either type of auto.
When doing it this way the charging time goes mostly un noticed and in the 15 or 20 minutes you take to do that its ready to roll.
The only time I spend more than 15 or 20 minutes charging is when I need to arrive at a destination without any access to power at all (rare) then I'll spend a few more minutes building additional charge.

My experience with p85/100 Model 3 and now a Y is that my 470 mile trip each way is the same time as an ice car.
I stop twice. 3 time max each way. Ive had employees that have them for about a decade now, and often do a swap when they need a truck occasionally and been lucky enough to be able to take them on trips. Ive also driven leafs and volts.

Service might be an issue - but there is a lot less to go wrong with no engine/ trans, and problems tend not to be catastrophic.
IF you dont live in a city now you'll have the same problem finding and scheduling service.
Im 40 minutes away from Honda service and have to wait because there is no uber service back home - and they dont comp loans.

As far as I know only lexus gives you a comp loaner car -at least they did for me.
 
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I don't believe EV will save the world

I don't care how green it is or isn't.

Its a better performing more practical and easier to live with car than i get for the same dollar in an ice car 80% of the time.

I filled up both my rigs Saturday - drove to Sacramento yesterday for a steak dinner and some big box shopping did about 170 miles.

Now I have to make a second run to the gas station this week.

If I drove a EV, it'd be full every morning.
 
Most guys with these I know have a 50 amp dryer or rv plug put in, dont know if thats considered level 2 or not?

On pit stopping = the supercharger network is well placed being right off main exits as opposed to electrify americas network which are often in malls or big box store parking lots (no one mentions that)

I typically mix a fuel/ charge stop with a short break coffee or a snack in either type of auto.
When doing it this way the charging time goes mostly un noticed and in the 15 or 20 minutes you take to do that its ready to roll.
The only time I spend more than 15 or 20 minutes charging is when I need to arrive at a destination without any access to power at all (rare) then I'll spend a few more minutes building additional charge.

My experience with p85/100 Model 3 and now a Y is that my 470 mile trip each way is the same time as an ice car.
I stop twice. 3 time max each way. Ive had employees that have them for about a decade now, and often do a swap when they need a truck occasionally and been lucky enough to be able to take them on trips. Ive also driven leafs and volts.

Service might be an issue - but there is a lot less to go wrong with no engine/ trans, and problems tend not to be catastrophic.
IF you dont live in a city now you'll have the same problem finding and scheduling service.
Im 40 minutes away from Honda service and have to wait because there is no uber service back home - and they dont comp loans.

As far asI know only lexus gives you a comp loaner car -at least they did for me.
Level 2 is limited to about 6.6 kw, which is why they have a 10 gauge 30 amp charging cord. Any more and the charging cord has to be thicker. The 50 amp service with 6 gauge wire is overkill for level 2 but good for the future. I charge at these things all the time, Chargepoint stands give the exact readout in kw. Sometimes I see a Teslan or Bolt drawing 6.8-6.9 kw, but then also it seems the station goes down. I think the internal circuit breaker trips. On a number of occasions I have used the wall switch to disconnect then connect again and the charging station lights up again, resetting the breaker. Most don’t have a wall switch box but some do. Because anything out exposed to the public, the public is going to start playing with it or try to break it.
 
I filled up both my rigs Saturday - drove to Sacramento yesterday for a steak dinner and some big box shopping did about 170 miles.

Now I have to make a second run to the gas station this week.

If I drove a EV, it'd be full every morning.
Exactly. The time saved by charging at home is a big deal. No more gas stations! But we must remember, most Americans can't charge at home, for all the known reasons (rentals, apartments, city parking and zoning, parking in parking garages/spaces, etc)

Unfortunately, I rent a place in PA, and drive 100 miles roundtrip to the airport. Rental places are not EV friendly. Nor can I charge at work. Plus I leave the car here in the North all winter. I want the performance of an EV so badly!! But just can't see how it can work.

My house in Jupiter, FL can charge an EV. But I'm not there as much anymore.
 
Exactly. The time saved by charging at home is a big deal. No more gas stations! But we must remember, most Americans can't charge at home, for all the known reasons (rentals, apartments, city parking and zoning, parking in parking garages/spaces, etc)

Unfortunately, I rent a place in PA, and drive 100 miles roundtrip to the airport. Rental places are not EV friendly. Nor can I charge at work. Plus I leave the car here in the North all winter. I want the performance of an EV so badly!! But just can't see how it can work.

My house in Jupiter, FL can charge an EV. But I'm not there as much anymore.

Im 100% agreed If you have an apartment it's probably tough or not possible.

Best you can do is charge elsewhere - just like you fuel elsewhere - and take the time hit.

Pretty sure there are more families living in homes than apartments so I'm not sure "most" Americans cant charge at home, I have a bit of data on this from an earlier discussion elsewhere, but Id love to see better data.

Id guess pretty much every suburban and rural EV driver can and does charge at home.

I wouldnt buy an EV if I couldnt charge at home.

Screen Shot 2021-12-06 at 4.08.43 PM.webp
 
In our SF Bay Area, more and more condos are looking into installing charging capabilities due to demand.
Of course, Silicon Valley companies commonly have subsidized charge-at-work or even free benefits.

Charge-in-the-garage ain't a bad way to go either...
Saw a DROP DEAD GORGEOUS dark gray Taycan earlier today.
 
Exactly. The time saved by charging at home is a big deal. No more gas stations! But we must remember, most Americans can't charge at home, for all the known reasons (rentals, apartments, city parking and zoning, parking in parking garages/spaces, etc)

Unfortunately, I rent a place in PA, and drive 100 miles roundtrip to the airport. Rental places are not EV friendly. Nor can I charge at work. Plus I leave the car here in the North all winter. I want the performance of an EV so badly!! But just can't see how it can work.

My house in Jupiter, FL can charge an EV. But I'm not there as much anymore.
Do you mean most as "more than half"? If you use that definition you have to factor in whether "most" people include people who doesn't have a car in the first place as well. Parking garage do have chargers these days, most of them have limited numbers and are pretty often occupied and you sort of have to wait, try your luck mid day. This is why they are usually charged by time as well as kwh, so you will move when you are done. I think you are thinking too far ahead that nobody will put up enough chargers. I have seen new chargers coming up all the time and at the moment everyone who has an EV still has a way to charge (even my apartment living friends), at work, at super charger in the strip mall, at Target, etc.

I have never seen one city zoning code that bans EV charging, ever. Just because they don't see a profit putting one up now doesn't mean they will never in the future. At the moment many high end apartments have chargers, but don't expect to see them in cheap apartment in low income area until low income families have EVs.

Maybe you should wait till it is time to buy one, but it doesn't mean we won't get there.
 
In our SF Bay Area, more and more condos are looking into installing charging capabilities due to demand.
Of course, Silicon Valley companies commonly have subsidized charge-at-work or even free benefits.

Charge-in-the-garage ain't a bad way to go either...
Saw a DROP DEAD GORGEOUS dark gray Taycan earlier today.

With the whole scuttlebutt about Taycan storage parameters, it doenst seem as beautiful to me as it once did.
 
We are all going to enjoy our miserable traffic, just with electric cars. Yay.
 
Do you mean most as "more than half"?
I wish I had some concrete data. Maybe someone here has some better info. I'm sure we could fund a study.... Anyway, I did read that many homeowners can't charge an EV, and not for the reasons one might think. City homes, such as brownstones, duplexes, quads and condos are considered homes and not rentals. A great many of them have community style parking, that is not adjacent to a building. This means community investment is required for chargers.

It will happen over time, I'm fairly sure.

Here is an example of "homes" that are owned, not condos and drivers have no way to charge. These are really common in Florida.

db7d94e3b96b7b02b2b7be14dc7c7326l-m2412706126od-w480_h360.jpg
 
I wish I had some concrete data. Maybe someone here has some better info. I'm sure we could fund a study.... Anyway, I did read that many homeowners can't charge an EV, and not for the reasons one might think. City homes, such as brownstones, duplexes, quads and condos are considered homes and not rentals. A great many of them have community style parking, that is not adjacent to a building. This means community investment is required for chargers.

It will happen over time, I'm fairly sure.

Here is an example of "homes" that are owned, not condos and drivers have no way to charge. These are really common in Florida.

db7d94e3b96b7b02b2b7be14dc7c7326l-m2412706126od-w480_h360.jpg
I have one of those. Former owner just hang a 110V 30' extension and charge it outside. Is it the best? Not really, but it was in a good neighborhood (i.e. 3M for 4 bedrooms house, 1M for a 2 bedroom "condo/townhouse") and in the HOA are full of old ladies and young engineering families, so nobody went stealing the cord and charger. I do agree it is hard to charge with that kind of setting but if you are living like this your priority is likely saving up and move from a starter home to a bigger SFH, rather than a 40k EV.

"Currently" EV is upper middle class enjoyment, it may take some time before it becomes affordable and charging infra everywhere, and eventually most homeless "campers" would be EV as well.
 
It takes time to develop new energy sources for the public. No one has a gas pump at home so they can leave every day with a full tank. Maybe Jay Leno does. It is not impossible to install ev chargers in many parking spots though, free of oil tanks and all the contamination oil brings to a locality. It's not impossible to have central charging stations like gas stations, and they are much cleaner.
 
Cable? So the power source and battery have nothing to do with it.

Was this on Breitbart? 😁
 
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