FWD's cheaper to manufacture, has lower drivetrain loss, better fuel economy, and is typically better in rain/snow(RWD, not AWD). I just don't see any real high power performance cars using FWD. The Cobalt SS, SRT-4,(Mini Cooper?), and the MazdaSpeed series(excluding MX-5) are the only sporty cars I'm familiar with, that use FWD. Most of the higher end stuff is mid engine, RWD/AWD, and the rest is front engine RWD/AWD.
Ford Taurus vs Crown vic (speed)
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Fun videos....
Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Whereas RWD seems to kinda push the rear end around if you overcook the throttle a bit.
Yeah that's the fun part
Honestly it's totally a preference thing when it comes to "fun" or "feel" and it's been brought up that there are well sorted and poorly sorted cars in both categories. But the fact remains that just like FWD is generally more efficient (in terms of drivetrain loss) RWD is generally better able to handle more power and better at absolute "performance".
Still I'll take my 4 cylinder FWD vehicle over my big block V8 RWD vehicle any day if given the choice (that is... Civic vs Suburban )
Well, if you are trying to spin the rear end around that is fine. But I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw the 360 controller through the window because I lost the race because the rear end wouldn't behave. Then I would reload the race with a FWD car and I would finish it first try by a large margin with much less frustration. Maybe I just suck at it, but it has a bit turned me off RWD cars. You don't need to tell me that a game isn't exactly comprable to real life but you know....
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Fun videos....
Said they weren't very exciting, just trying to demonstrate how much quicker even the base Taurus PI will be compared to the crown vic.
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Whereas RWD seems to kinda push the rear end around if you overcook the throttle a bit.
Yeah that's the fun part
Honestly it's totally a preference thing when it comes to "fun" or "feel" and it's been brought up that there are well sorted and poorly sorted cars in both categories. But the fact remains that just like FWD is generally more efficient (in terms of drivetrain loss) RWD is generally better able to handle more power and better at absolute "performance".
Still I'll take my 4 cylinder FWD vehicle over my big block V8 RWD vehicle any day if given the choice (that is... Civic vs Suburban
)Well, if you are trying to spin the rear end around that is fine. But I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw the 360 controller through the window because I lost the race because the rear end wouldn't behave. Then I would reload the race with a FWD car and I would finish it first try by a large margin with much less frustration. Maybe I just suck at it, but it has a bit turned me off RWD cars. You don't need to tell me that a game isn't exactly comprable to real life but you know....
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Fun videos....
Said they weren't very exciting, just trying to demonstrate how much quicker even the base Taurus PI will be compared to the crown vic.
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Taurus Ecoboost 3.5L (About 5.2 seconds 0-60)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zcWyafk8o
I found it very distressing that a Taurus would accelerate that quickly until I looked at the MSRP. $38,000. I don't know about you, but that's a fortune for a car. That car.
Taurus Ecoboost 3.5L (About 5.2 seconds 0-60)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zcWyafk8o
I found it very distressing that a Taurus would accelerate that quickly until I looked at the MSRP. $38,000. I don't know about you, but that's a fortune for a car. That car.
A skilled driver can put a FWD vehicle through the ropes very well, but at the end of the day there is a reason that most high performance vehicles are based on a RWD platform. High speed control is it. Anybody who has needed to push vehicles to their limits have felt the difference. I am in no way saying a FWD is incapable, but the RWD platform will yield better results, even with a lowered-skill driver (within reason, of course).
FWD vehicles are great daily drivers, and good for the spirited drive, but a person has to understand that when there is a better tool for a specific job, you use it.
I think police departments will be fine with a FWD designed vehicle. I am more concerned about the highway and wide open spaces departments like State Troopers and Sheriff departments. Of course, I beleive Ford understands this concern, and that's why they offer the AWD.
Aside from police departments, and we are just talking personal vehicles. I don't mind FWD one bit. I've come to enjoy it.
FWD vehicles are great daily drivers, and good for the spirited drive, but a person has to understand that when there is a better tool for a specific job, you use it.
I think police departments will be fine with a FWD designed vehicle. I am more concerned about the highway and wide open spaces departments like State Troopers and Sheriff departments. Of course, I beleive Ford understands this concern, and that's why they offer the AWD.
Aside from police departments, and we are just talking personal vehicles. I don't mind FWD one bit. I've come to enjoy it.
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Taurus Ecoboost 3.5L (About 5.2 seconds 0-60)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zcWyafk8o
I found it very distressing that a Taurus would accelerate that quickly until I looked at the MSRP. $38,000. I don't know about you, but that's a fortune for a car. That car.
The dollar is not what it used to be
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Taurus Ecoboost 3.5L (About 5.2 seconds 0-60)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_zcWyafk8o
I found it very distressing that a Taurus would accelerate that quickly until I looked at the MSRP. $38,000. I don't know about you, but that's a fortune for a car. That car.
The dollar is not what it used to be
I don't know why Ford want's to go FWD for Police Vehicles. Most Deputies that I work with, have boatloads of "stuff" in the trunk. When I was on-duty, the CVPI was stable and had good traction on wet FL roads, when there was 500# of junk in the trunk. The handling was much different if the trunk was empty. I would rather have that weight over the drive axle.
Just my .02
Dave
Just my .02
Dave
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Ok so I want one person to sit here and honestly tell me that in everyday driving, unless you literally drive with your foot to the floor every single second, that you can tell a difference in driving... Between a FWD car, and a RWD car. Because you know what? I can't tell a darn thing different. Tell me why FWD is the devil? Is it less reliable? No. Can you get better performance out of a FWD car than some RWD ones? Yes. Heck in games like Forza 2,3 (you know, the good ones that actually make an effort to put forth some realistic phsyics) I HATE the RWD cars, I stick with FWD and AWD if I can, because they just control better. To quote my favorite game critic, "they control like (insert swear word meaning rear end here)! A fat one to be precise, on stilts with rollerskates on the ends" translates into real life, but I'm willing to bet it's someone on the mark.
If you have 2 drivers of equal ability, and one drove a RWD car, and one drove a FWD car in a race, I would bet they would be evenly matched.
I can tell the difference and I would rather have the FWD than a RWD any day. My Jeep and Xterra were RWD but had 4WD as an option. In RWD in snow was horrible without 4x4. I managed to go throw the same snow conditions in my 01 Impala LS with traction disabled with no problems. Front end heavy. The TC was just as good in the snow, specially using stick to control rpm's and gear load.
In heavy cornering I prefer a rwd, in a fwd I feel way to much in the wheel(power, vibrations, bumps). But day to day normal driving you won't tell the difference except in how the car behaves suspension and weight distribution wise. But FWD is good for about 99% of the year, don't need to invest in any snow tires or sand bags unless you want to.
Ok so I want one person to sit here and honestly tell me that in everyday driving, unless you literally drive with your foot to the floor every single second, that you can tell a difference in driving... Between a FWD car, and a RWD car. Because you know what? I can't tell a darn thing different. Tell me why FWD is the devil? Is it less reliable? No. Can you get better performance out of a FWD car than some RWD ones? Yes. Heck in games like Forza 2,3 (you know, the good ones that actually make an effort to put forth some realistic phsyics) I HATE the RWD cars, I stick with FWD and AWD if I can, because they just control better. To quote my favorite game critic, "they control like (insert swear word meaning rear end here)! A fat one to be precise, on stilts with rollerskates on the ends" translates into real life, but I'm willing to bet it's someone on the mark.
If you have 2 drivers of equal ability, and one drove a RWD car, and one drove a FWD car in a race, I would bet they would be evenly matched.
I can tell the difference and I would rather have the FWD than a RWD any day. My Jeep and Xterra were RWD but had 4WD as an option. In RWD in snow was horrible without 4x4. I managed to go throw the same snow conditions in my 01 Impala LS with traction disabled with no problems. Front end heavy. The TC was just as good in the snow, specially using stick to control rpm's and gear load.
In heavy cornering I prefer a rwd, in a fwd I feel way to much in the wheel(power, vibrations, bumps). But day to day normal driving you won't tell the difference except in how the car behaves suspension and weight distribution wise. But FWD is good for about 99% of the year, don't need to invest in any snow tires or sand bags unless you want to.
As a long time owner of Panther-platform cars, I will conceed that FWD has many advantages, as mentioned in previous posts.
A few thoughts: The new Taurus isn't a light car, heavy FWD vehicles seem to be harder on the front tires, especially in city service. I am also eager to see how the front suspension of the Taurus handles jumping a few curbs.
The cost and availability of parts is another concern. Maybe not for the police, but certainly for all the Taxi companies that love to scoop up the used CVPI's.
A few thoughts: The new Taurus isn't a light car, heavy FWD vehicles seem to be harder on the front tires, especially in city service. I am also eager to see how the front suspension of the Taurus handles jumping a few curbs.
The cost and availability of parts is another concern. Maybe not for the police, but certainly for all the Taxi companies that love to scoop up the used CVPI's.
IMO Ford makes the best handling cars of the ex-big-3. Maybe not the escort but the contour, taurus, and panther, I've had one of each. My Grand marquis went silly-fast around rotaries on cheap 70-series tires. Part of it may have been the RWD but I think part of it was the unequal front wishbones, that made the tires properly lean into the corners for best grip.
Most FWD cars have the cheezy macpherson strut setup (except some older Civics etc) because they're made to a price point. Of course Ford tuned 'em okay on the aforementioned contour/taurus...
There were FWD Impala cop cars. Suburban departments liked them for a spell here. But these were the same guys who took the DARE minivans out in snow storms because the CVs got stuck.
Most FWD cars have the cheezy macpherson strut setup (except some older Civics etc) because they're made to a price point. Of course Ford tuned 'em okay on the aforementioned contour/taurus...
There were FWD Impala cop cars. Suburban departments liked them for a spell here. But these were the same guys who took the DARE minivans out in snow storms because the CVs got stuck.
I'd like to know what police departments have the budgets for changing their fleets over to new and much more expensive cars that are untested, and don't have mechanical track records. This will be a huge financial hit for communities that are already very cash strapped. My town has already laid off police and is keeping cars much longer. They have quite a motley fleet of old and newer CVPIs, a few Impalas, and a couple of SUVs of some sort. I think they will go for the cheapest bid, not necessarily the best car. I bet they'll be hanging onto the CVPIs as long as possible.
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Ok so I want one person to sit here and honestly tell me that in everyday driving, unless you literally drive with your foot to the floor every single second, that you can tell a difference in driving... Between a FWD car, and a RWD car. Because you know what? I can't tell a darn thing different.
...then you are not paying close attention. 'nuff said.
Ok so I want one person to sit here and honestly tell me that in everyday driving, unless you literally drive with your foot to the floor every single second, that you can tell a difference in driving... Between a FWD car, and a RWD car. Because you know what? I can't tell a darn thing different.
...then you are not paying close attention. 'nuff said.
Tell me what's different then. If you have the exact same car, but one version is FWD and other is RWD, in everyday normal driving... What is the difference? I'm dying to know.
The NYC Taxi FWD Escapes seem to take a beating pretty well, essentially they're 3500lb car-based wagons.
You can cry till the cows come home, but the CVPI is a orphan platform bought only by fleet. The civillian customer bypassed this car years ago, and Ford cannot/will not retool $$ a platform with no civillian appeal. The fleet Tauri will be much less than $38k esp. when purchased in quanity.
You can cry till the cows come home, but the CVPI is a orphan platform bought only by fleet. The civillian customer bypassed this car years ago, and Ford cannot/will not retool $$ a platform with no civillian appeal. The fleet Tauri will be much less than $38k esp. when purchased in quanity.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Originally Posted By: CharlieJ
My daily driver is FWD as well, I am reminded of that everytime I press the accelerator...
Very true. One thing I absolutely detest about the ES and the Camry.
After driving my sisters 07 Camry awhile back [now she has a 07 Grand Marquis LS] I much perfer RWD any day...I drove my friends 02 Accord a few times and did not like driving that one either...So I will have to agree with Flacon_LS and CharlieJ.
I just can not get comfortable in any car anymore unless [year does not matter] I am in a Panther.
Originally Posted By: CharlieJ
My daily driver is FWD as well, I am reminded of that everytime I press the accelerator...
Very true. One thing I absolutely detest about the ES and the Camry.
After driving my sisters 07 Camry awhile back [now she has a 07 Grand Marquis LS] I much perfer RWD any day...I drove my friends 02 Accord a few times and did not like driving that one either...So I will have to agree with Flacon_LS and CharlieJ.
I just can not get comfortable in any car anymore unless [year does not matter] I am in a Panther.
I would say in everyday civilian driving, fwd/rwd makes little difference except in snow. For police? Well, I know that many times they must go over obstacles like curbs and such. I would imagine that a fwd car may have a more sensitive or damage prone result after doing that for several years. Maybe not....just thinking. The speed thing is really not an issue at all. Most pursuits are not like the movie stuff. 0-60 times are not the most critical of criteria for a police car. Stability, reliability, room, some heft to the platform, and yes, the familiar aspects and predictability of rwd while cornering in a metro environment are more important. Just my opinions.
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I wonder if FWD wheel bearings are stronger than a the front bearings on a rear wheel drive vehicle?
Ford is saying that the new Taurus is able to hit curbs going 40mph. They mention the rims are very strong. I would say the tires, suspension and steering needs to be up to the task as well.
Ford is saying that the new Taurus is able to hit curbs going 40mph. They mention the rims are very strong. I would say the tires, suspension and steering needs to be up to the task as well.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I wonder if FWD wheel bearings are stronger than a the front bearings on a rear wheel drive vehicle?
Ford is saying that the new Taurus is able to hit curbs going 40mph. They mention the rims are very strong. I would say the tires, suspension and steering needs to be up to the task as well.
I doubt there are many tires that could withstand a curb impact at 40MPH.
I wonder if FWD wheel bearings are stronger than a the front bearings on a rear wheel drive vehicle?
Ford is saying that the new Taurus is able to hit curbs going 40mph. They mention the rims are very strong. I would say the tires, suspension and steering needs to be up to the task as well.
I doubt there are many tires that could withstand a curb impact at 40MPH.
Well it's a bit puzzling they would say the rims can take a forty MPH hit. But they don't say anything about the tire, wheel bearing, tie rods, or other suspension parts.......
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