2022 Volkswagen Taos SE, FWD - 3,000 mile review

K.Aoi

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
705
Location
Eastern NC
I believe the 1.4 and 1.5 use a dry belt. Also, the 1.4 was originally a chain design.
It seems like you're right. I'm losing my mind because I swear to god I had multiple times read the EA211 was a belt-in-oil timing belt, but now I can't find anything about it.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
782
Location
Toronto
Are you kidding? I see more timing chain issues now than ever before. GM 2.4, 3.6, loads of Ford 3.5's, VW/Audi 1.8 and 2.0 some early Honda 2.4's, Mini (of course) among others. I see nothing wrong with a properly designed timing belt. There are many ea211 timing belt equipped engines running around with over 150K and not an issue.

GM 2.4, 3.6, loads of Ford 3.5s, VW/Audi 1.8, 2.0 early K24s you mentioned above are all old platforms. They are all replaced by newer platforms or heavily updated. Modern timing chains are maintenance free and as long as you change oil on time, they'll last forever and they don't have any interval.

But nothing is invulnerable in an IC engine. Maintenance is the key point. If you skip/extend your OCI, of course you will have to deal with stretched timing chain/worn guides and tensioner. I'm curious how durable those new oil dipped belts will be once people put a lot of miles and start skipping/extending their OCIs.

It is true that some timing chains are hard on the tensioner. For instance early F20/F22 engines had timing chain tensioner problem (as they rev 9000 rpm) which literally takes less than 30 minutes to replace for a DIYer. Not to mention that's almost a 25-year-old platform, but you can't compare that to a modern 1.5 engine that barely revs over 6000 rpm, of course they will wear out faster.

Again, there is a reason why majority of auto manufacturers still use timing chain, including almost all Japanese brands even though it cost significantly more than a belt design.

Long story short I'd still prefer to change the tensioner every 100-150k (if I ever have to) rather than disassembling half of the engine to change the whole belt/pump/thermostat every 100-150k, or dealing with snapped timing belt and potentially a destroyed engine. Time will tell if belt-in-oil design is "maintenance-free" like a properly designed timing chain.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
8,564
Location
FL, USA
GM 2.4, 3.6, loads of Ford 3.5s, VW/Audi 1.8, 2.0 early K24s you mentioned above are all old platforms. They are all replaced by newer platforms or heavily updated. Modern timing chains are maintenance free and as long as you change oil on time, they'll last forever and they don't have any interval.

But nothing is invulnerable in an IC engine. Maintenance is the key point. If you skip/extend your OCI, of course you will have to deal with stretched timing chain/worn guides and tensioner. I'm curious how durable those new oil dipped belts will be once people put a lot of miles and start skipping/extending their OCIs.

It is true that some timing chains are hard on the tensioner. For instance early F20/F22 engines had timing chain tensioner problem (as they rev 9000 rpm) which literally takes less than 30 minutes to replace for a DIYer. Not to mention that's almost a 25-year-old platform, but you can't compare that to a modern 1.5 engine that barely revs over 6000 rpm, of course they will wear out faster.

Again, there is a reason why majority of auto manufacturers still use timing chain, including almost all Japanese brands even though it cost significantly more than a belt design.

Long story short I'd still prefer to change the tensioner every 100-150k (if I ever have to) rather than disassembling half of the engine to change the whole belt/pump/thermostat every 100-150k, or dealing with snapped timing belt and potentially a destroyed engine. Time will tell if belt-in-oil design is "maintenance-free" like a properly designed timing chain.
The VW 1.8 tsi and 2.0 tsi are both current designs. (Ea888).
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
21,238
Location
...
The biggest issue with either timing belts or chains is the access. If they were readily accessible and could be changed in short order then we wouldn’t need this discussion. This shouldn’t be a surprise though as automakers have been cramming engines into cars for a few decades now. It’s a long cry from a Chevy in-line six.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
1,550
Location
open range
I believe the 1.4 and 1.5 use a dry belt. Also, the 1.4 was originally a chain design.

1.4 TSI as found in late (Euro spec) Golf Mk5 and (again Euro spec) Golf Mk6 is EA111
using a timing chain. Turbo and exhaust on front, intake on rear. Higher powered versions
(from 140 HP up) had both supercharger and turbo. Introduced in 2005/6. This engine is a
POS and VW for sure didn't do itself a favour with it. Audi tried to avoid this engine as good
as possible, only using it in a limited number of A1 and a 125 HP version only in the A3 8P.

1.4 TSI from 2012 on (Golf Mk7 etc.) is an actually completely new design called EA211 and
using a timing belt, while 1.5 TSI is the revised design called EA211evo, again with a timing
belt. All EA211 use a turbo only, no supercharger. Intake sitting on front, turbo sitting on rear
(quite similar to its bigger EA113 and EA888 brothers). Both generations of the EA211 basically
are flawless. Seems they learned their lesson. Nice little engines, perhaps the best ~70 HP (1.0
3-pot NA) to 158 HP engines currently available.

On a side note:

VTG turbo and Budack cycle on the 148/158 HP model? I never ever came across that and
I wonder if it's even true. When Volkswagen introduced the evo version of the EA211 in late
2016/early 2017 (which started in Europe with the facelifted Golf Mk7) only its 130 HP version
came with a VTG turbo and Budack cycle principle. The 150 PS/HP retained a conventional
wastegate turbo and relinquishes Budack cycle as it's hard to reach elevated power levels with
it. Same reason why you don't see Budack cycle on EA888 3Gs in a GTI or R but on 180 to 204
HP versions only. Same reason why the successor of the 1.8T required two liters of displace-
ment to retain similar power levels since it uses Budack cycle. Remember the latest revision of
the EA888 3G 1.8T had 192 HP in the Polo GTI and stage 1 Polos easily make like 250 HP.
.
 

K.Aoi

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
705
Location
Eastern NC
1.4 TSI as found in late (Euro spec) Golf Mk5 and (again Euro spec) Golf Mk6 is EA111
using a timing chain. Turbo and exhaust on front, intake on rear. Higher powered versions
(from 140 HP up) had both supercharger and turbo. Introduced in 2005/6. This engine is a
POS and VW for sure didn't do itself a favour with it. Audi tried to avoid this engine as good
as possible, only using it in a limited number of A1 and a 125 HP version only in the A3 8P.

1.4 TSI from 2012 on (Golf Mk7 etc.) is an actually completely new design called EA211 and
using a timing belt, while 1.5 TSI is the revised design called EA211evo, again with a timing
belt. All EA211 use a turbo only, no supercharger. Intake sitting on front, turbo sitting on rear
(quite similar to its bigger EA113 and EA888 brothers). Both generations of the EA211 basically
are flawless. Seems they learned their lesson. Nice little engines, perhaps the best ~70 HP (1.0
3-pot NA) to 158 HP engines currently available.

On a side note:

VTG turbo and Budack cycle on the 148/158 HP model? I never ever came across that and
I wonder if it's even true. When Volkswagen introduced the evo version of the EA211 in late
2016/early 2017 (which started in Europe with the facelifted Golf Mk7) only its 130 HP version
came with a VTG turbo and Budack cycle principle. The 150 PS/HP retained a conventional
wastegate turbo and relinquishes Budack cycle as it's hard to reach elevated power levels with
it. Same reason why you don't see Budack cycle on EA888 3Gs in a GTI or R but on 180 to 204
HP versions only. Same reason why the successor of the 1.8T required two liters of displace-
ment to retain similar power levels since it uses Budack cycle. Remember the latest revision of
the EA888 3G 1.8T had 192 HP in the Polo GTI and stage 1 Polos easily make like 250 HP.


 
Last edited:

K.Aoi

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
705
Location
Eastern NC
Edit Edit: Ok that was all incorrect, the 1.5T in the NA market is the new 1.5T Evo2 model, which does have those features, it specifically says its the 118KW (158HP) model of the 1.5T, and was also introduced in China, and almost all the articles I can find are in Chinese lol.
https://daydaynews.cc/en/car/758384.html

 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
8,564
Location
FL, USA
1.4 TSI as found in late (Euro spec) Golf Mk5 and (again Euro spec) Golf Mk6 is EA111
using a timing chain. Turbo and exhaust on front, intake on rear. Higher powered versions
(from 140 HP up) had both supercharger and turbo. Introduced in 2005/6. This engine is a
POS and VW for sure didn't do itself a favour with it. Audi tried to avoid this engine as good
as possible, only using it in a limited number of A1 and a 125 HP version only in the A3 8P.

1.4 TSI from 2012 on (Golf Mk7 etc.) is an actually completely new design called EA211 and
using a timing belt, while 1.5 TSI is the revised design called EA211evo, again with a timing
belt. All EA211 use a turbo only, no supercharger. Intake sitting on front, turbo sitting on rear
(quite similar to its bigger EA113 and EA888 brothers). Both generations of the EA211 basically
are flawless. Seems they learned their lesson. Nice little engines, perhaps the best ~70 HP (1.0
3-pot NA) to 158 HP engines currently available.

On a side note:

VTG turbo and Budack cycle on the 148/158 HP model? I never ever came across that and
I wonder if it's even true. When Volkswagen introduced the evo version of the EA211 in late
2016/early 2017 (which started in Europe with the facelifted Golf Mk7) only its 130 HP version
came with a VTG turbo and Budack cycle principle. The 150 PS/HP retained a conventional
wastegate turbo and relinquishes Budack cycle as it's hard to reach elevated power levels with
it. Same reason why you don't see Budack cycle on EA888 3Gs in a GTI or R but on 180 to 204
HP versions only. Same reason why the successor of the 1.8T required two liters of displace-
ment to retain similar power levels since it uses Budack cycle. Remember the latest revision of
the EA888 3G 1.8T had 192 HP in the Polo GTI and stage 1 Polos easily make like 250 HP.
.
Ok so the original 1.4 was a chain. Then they made a new one with a belt, a new design and named it the ea211. As I said earlier, I believe it utilizes a dry belt, not an oil bathed one as was previously stated.
 

dishdude

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
12,947
Location
Phoenix
Timing belts suck, the only major repair I've ever had was a timing belt. Also not a fan of sub 2.0 turbos unless it's in a shoebox of a car.
 

K.Aoi

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
705
Location
Eastern NC
Timing belts suck, the only major repair I've ever had was a timing belt. Also not a fan of sub 2.0 turbos unless it's in a shoebox of a car.
Legitimate question not a dig, but have you driven any of them? The Hyundai/Kia 1.6T, the VW 1.4 or 1.8TSI...? Any Ecoboost engine? They feel more powerful than most high revving N/A V6s because they make all their torque down low.
 

dishdude

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
12,947
Location
Phoenix
Legitimate question not a dig, but have you driven any of them? The Hyundai/Kia 1.6T, the VW 1.4 or 1.8TSI...? Any Ecoboost engine? They feel more powerful than most high revving N/A V6s because they make all their torque down low.

Driving a 1.4T Jetta took me back to my 1995 Neon with a 2.0 N/A.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
19,560
Location
NH
Timing belts suck, the only major repair I've ever had was a timing belt. Also not a fan of sub 2.0 turbos unless it's in a shoebox of a car.
Was it a repair, after it snapped, or maintenance? when it’s a repair it sure can be expensive! although some of the prices to do the job would scare me, would want to know that price when I bought so I could start saving early….
 

dishdude

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
12,947
Location
Phoenix
Was it a repair, after it snapped, or maintenance? when it’s a repair it sure can be expensive! although some of the prices to do the job would scare me, would want to know that price when I bought so I could start saving early….

Bearing on the tensioner pulley froze.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
1,550
Location
open range
Edit Edit: Ok that was all incorrect, the 1.5T in the NA market is the new 1.5T Evo2 model, which does have those features, it specifically says its the 118KW (158HP) model of the 1.5T, and was also introduced in China, and almost all the articles I can find are in Chinese lol.
https://daydaynews.cc/en/car/758384.html



Thanks for this update. So we currently have the EA211evo2, which makes
me wonder if 150 HP Mk8 Golf 1.5 TSI also come with this latest revision.
.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
846
Location
NJ
Driving a 1.4T Jetta took me back to my 1995 Neon with a 2.0 N/A.

My daughter has a 2017 jetta SE 1.4t, while not a rocket it is more than adequate for the intended job of keeping up with traffic.
 
Last edited:

K.Aoi

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
705
Location
Eastern NC
The more I drive this car the more I like it- I definitely think if VW offers a performance model with the 2.0T in the future I'll trade for that. That extra 40-50HP+ would be the icing on the cake.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
8,737
Location
Mahzurrah!
Is there a tune available for the one you have? Or maybe will be one soon? I know the 1.5 is brand new to this market.
 

K.Aoi

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
705
Location
Eastern NC
Is there a tune available for the one you have? Or maybe will be one soon? I know the 1.5 is brand new to this market.
Not yet as far as I can tell since the 1.5 EA211 Evo2 is so new. And even if there was I'd probably not get one in warranty, and if I keep it past the 4/50k warranty I'll probably get the extended warranty from VW. I'm also leery of a tune possibly overwhelming the VGT with high EGTs. I'm confident VW has it dialed in well enough but I don't think enough people know what a tune would do to EGTs and how that would affect the turbo for me to risk it.
 
Top