Ford Super Duty Luxury Vehicles

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
You might be surprised to hear that big ticket items, be they expensive cars, trucks, houses, etc., are in fact often bought outright.


https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/09/25/nearly-7-in-10-americans-have-less-than-1000-in-sa.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...m=.8a3f6d5bcfdb

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-have-less-than-1000-in-savings-2015-10-06

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense...savings-at-all/

"66 MILLION Americans have zero dollars saved for an emergency expense -ZERO."

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/most-am...0000-a-yea.html

"And 44 percent of Americans making $100,000 to $149,999 have less than $1,000 saved, while 60 percent of those in that income bracket have less than $5,000 in savings. Even among those fortunate enough to make $150,000 or more a year, 29 percent have less than $1,000 saved."

I'm not one to deny facts. So perhaps you can enlighten me. Just where are all of these "successful" cash buyers coming from who, "often buy expensive cars, trucks, and houses outright"?

 

[Mr Nice]

Lots of well paid professionals are affluent and can easily pay cash.

But they are 5% of the American population. There is a doctor here on BITOG with a Lamborghini and Ferrari.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: 02SE
You might be surprised to hear that big ticket items, be they expensive cars, trucks, houses, etc., are in fact often bought outright.


https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/09/25/nearly-7-in-10-americans-have-less-than-1000-in-sa.aspx

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...m=.8a3f6d5bcfdb

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-have-less-than-1000-in-savings-2015-10-06

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense...savings-at-all/

"66 MILLION Americans have zero dollars saved for an emergency expense -ZERO."

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/most-am...0000-a-yea.html

"And 44 percent of Americans making $100,000 to $149,999 have less than $1,000 saved, while 60 percent of those in that income bracket have less than $5,000 in savings. Even among those fortunate enough to make $150,000 or more a year, 29 percent have less than $1,000 saved."

I'm not one to deny facts. So perhaps you can enlighten me. Just where are all of these "successful" cash buyers coming from who, "often buy expensive cars, trucks, and houses outright"?





I have to agree with this. I think it comes down to a lot of these people being roped into consumerism and being terrible with money.

My GF used to be a nanny when she lived in Boston. She worked for a family that had a combined income of over $400,000. Their cars were always breaking down (they weren't all that new), and they never seemed to have the money to pay her on time. She would go weeks without being paid before they could come up with the money.

A lot of this family's friends were from the same area and had similar situations. Plenty of income, terrible about managing it.

 

[DoubleWasp]

But as previously stated, there's nobody in those statistics who is going to get a 90k auto loan.

The 90k auto loan crowd isn't digging through their couch for change. They get those loans because a bank has pretty much established the individual doesn't really need one. 2005 was a long time ago. You're not getting that kind of loan on a vehicle because your situation looks ok.

May as well post statistics about speedo bikinis in a thread about Eskimos.

With regards to my springs, I have air helpers in the rear, but I don't want support to become completely reliant on them, as opposed to the packs themselves. Might be going into a new Ram after the holidays. Not sure. I kinda like stacking up the miles on what I already have.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
But as previously stated, there's nobody in those statistics who is going to get a 90k auto loan.

The 90k auto loan crowd isn't digging through their couch for change. They get those loans because a bank has pretty much established the individual doesn't really need one. 2005 was a long time ago. You're not getting that kind of loan on a vehicle because your situation looks ok.

May as well post statistics about speedo bikinis in a thread about Eskimos.

With regards to my springs, I have air helpers in the rear, but I don't want support to become completely reliant on them, as opposed to the packs themselves. Might be going into a new Ram after the holidays. Not sure. I kinda like stacking up the miles on what I already have.




I have first hand knowledge of this. If you have assets-and could liquidate them to pay cash for whatever you want to borrow money for-the bank is more than happy to give you a loan. It's a good feeling when you want to buy something and banks are standing in line to give you money.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I have to agree with this. I think it comes down to a lot of these people being roped into consumerism and being terrible with money.


That's exactly what it is. Along with poor financial priorities. Today it is easier than ever to separate people from their money. It's why so few have any. Before I retired, I worked with guys who had $500.00+ car lease payments. The latest edition I-Phones with $250.00 a month service. Along with every electronic do dad known to mankind. Then they would tell me how they, "can't afford" to get into the company 401K. When I told them to stop buying junk, and drive a car they can afford, they looked at me like I was crazy. Today most people do not possess an ounce of financial common sense.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of well paid professionals are affluent and can easily pay cash.


Define "lots of".

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
But as previously stated, there's nobody in those statistics who is going to get a 90k auto loan.

The 90k auto loan crowd isn't digging through their couch for change. They get those loans because a bank has pretty much established the individual doesn't really need one. 2005 was a long time ago. You're not getting that kind of loan on a vehicle because your situation looks ok.

May as well post statistics about speedo bikinis in a thread about Eskimos.

With regards to my springs, I have air helpers in the rear, but I don't want support to become completely reliant on them, as opposed to the packs themselves. Might be going into a new Ram after the holidays. Not sure. I kinda like stacking up the miles on what I already have.


Yep, again.

I'll use my own experience as an example: I bought a 'fancy' truck earlier this year. It stickered at close to 80k, but nobody is paying sticker unless they are a sucker. I had planned to buy it outright as a business vehicle. But there was a 0% APR deal going at the time, so I'm making payments for 3 years at 0%. I can easily earn more then 0% on my money, so I'll come out ahead making payments vs just paying up front.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of well paid professionals are affluent and can easily pay cash.


Define "lots of".


People that made right decisions in life with their money.
Its really not that hard to save and invest, then enjoy the money later on.

This is exactly when I'm doing with my money.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Its really not that hard to save and invest, then enjoy the money later on. This is exactly when I'm doing with my money.


I agree with you, and I get that part. I'm doing the same thing. What I'm saying is we are a very small percentage of what's out there. A minuscule amount in fact. Wealth has to be owned, not borrowed. If most people today had to liquidate their assets, and pay off their liabilities, they would be standing naked in the street owing money. And that is the problem with most, but not all people.

Fewer and fewer people are able to retire today. Because most have nothing to retire on. They keep turning over 30 year mortgages, because they're moving every 15 minutes. Whatever little equity they may accumulate, is eaten up paying real estate sales commission and moving expenses, as they bounce from home to home. And most have never lived without a car payment. And for many 2 of them. As we speak you have over 7.4 MILLION homeowners, or 13%, who are under water with their mortgages.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-es...rtgages-n401081

And this is all happening with an improving economy. So yeah, you have a very small percentage of people. Many of which are baby boomers, who are like us, and are enjoying a financially secure retirement. Or soon will be. But as far as "Generation X", and all of these Millennials, the bulk of them don't have a prayer. They are spending faster than they are earning. And many are coming out of college educated for jobs that are either hard to find. Or else are virtually non existent. They're looking at over 20 years in the work force paying off student loans, before they have any chance of breaking even. If modern medicine doesn't come up with a way real soon, to get life expectancy up to 100 years. Most of these people aren't going to have a prayer at any kind of retirement. And the last thing that will help them is buying some overpriced, depreciating $85K truck, car, or SUV that is dropping in value faster than their odds for a prosperous retirement.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
I bought a 'fancy' truck earlier this year. It stickered at close to 80k, but nobody is paying sticker unless they are a sucker. I had planned to buy it outright as a business vehicle. But there was a 0% APR deal going at the time, so I'm making payments for 3 years at 0%. I can easily earn more then 0% on my money, so I'll come out ahead making payments vs just paying up front.


The only way you will get 0% financing is by paying more for the truck. Dealers aren't stupid. If they're not making any money on the financing, they're making it up on the purchase price. You are not getting something for nothing. If you walk in and negotiate a cash purchase price. Then turn around and tell them you want 0% financing instead, you will not get the vehicle for the price you negotiated. It cost the dealer money to lend money. Just like any bank. They're not going to do it for free. Cash buying will get you a good price. 0% of that price over time is "free money". Dealers don't give you anything for "free". You're paying one way or the other.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I bought a 'fancy' truck earlier this year. It stickered at close to 80k, but nobody is paying sticker unless they are a sucker. I had planned to buy it outright as a business vehicle. But there was a 0% APR deal going at the time, so I'm making payments for 3 years at 0%. I can easily earn more then 0% on my money, so I'll come out ahead making payments vs just paying up front.


The only way you will get 0% financing is by paying more for the truck. Dealers aren't stupid. If they're not making any money on the financing, they're making it up on the purchase price. You are not getting something for nothing. If you walk in and negotiate a cash purchase price. Then turn around and tell them you want 0% financing instead, you will not get the vehicle for the price you negotiated. It cost the dealer money to lend money. Just like any bank. They're not going to do it for free. Cash buying will get you a good price. 0% of that price over time is "free money". Dealers don't give you anything for "free". You're paying one way or the other.



There you go again, thinking you know everyone's situation, and/or their understanding of finances. Rest assured I'm well versed.

Rather than tell my life story, I'll just say I got the best price being offered from ANY Dealer in the USA, AND easily qualified for the manufacturers 0% financing offer. Of course the Dealer still made money on the deal. They just made less off of me then other Dealers were willing to accept. Their business model must be working for them, as they do a lot of business with buyers from all over the USA.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: billt460

The only way you will get 0% financing is by paying more for the truck. Dealers aren't stupid. If they're not making any money on the financing, they're making it up on the purchase price. You are not getting something for nothing. If you walk in and negotiate a cash purchase price. Then turn around and tell them you want 0% financing instead, you will not get the vehicle for the price you negotiated. It cost the dealer money to lend money. Just like any bank. They're not going to do it for free. Cash buying will get you a good price. 0% of that price over time is "free money". Dealers don't give you anything for "free". You're paying one way or the other.


Huh? The 0% financing typically comes from the manufacturer's finance arm. And it's only available to "well qualified" buyers, typically 700-750+ credit score. Now I don't buy cars often but when I have the price has been decided then you go see the finance guy. The price does not change depending on the financing. If it does you walk. When the wife bought her car 2 years ago she told them she wanted the 0%, they ran her through Ford Credit, made a remark that they don't often see such high scores and printed out the paperwork.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
The 0% financing typically comes from the manufacturer's finance arm. And it's only available to "well qualified" buyers, typically 700-750+ credit score. Now I don't buy cars often but when I have the price has been decided then you go see the finance guy. The price does not change depending on the financing. If it does you walk. When the wife bought her car 2 years ago she told them she wanted the 0%, they ran her through Ford Credit, made a remark that they don't often see such high scores and printed out the paperwork.


Credit scores and who is, "well qualified" or not has nothing to do with the price. If you take on the purchase of a new vehicle with 0% financing, you will pay a higher price for it, than if you negotiate and pay with a cash deal. Dealers do not loan money for nothing. Regardless of where the money comes from. If it doesn't come from the purchaser, they will pay more.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: billt460

Credit scores and who is, "well qualified" or not has nothing to do with the price. If you take on the purchase of a new vehicle with 0% financing, you will pay a higher price for it, than if you negotiate and pay with a cash deal. Dealers do not loan money for nothing. Regardless of where the money comes from. If it doesn't come from the purchaser, they will pay more.


You will not. Dealers don't loan money, banks do. In the deals I've been part of the price is determined before any financing terms came into play. You decide the cost then go to the finance guy and talk payment. The # never changed no matter what. Even when I had the dealer beat the rate I got from my credit union.

When the wife bought her car, she took the 0% and the price was the same down to the penny. In her case, Ford Credit paid the dealer the balance of the cost - our downpayment. The dealer didn't care as they got their $$.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
When the wife bought her car, she took the 0% and the price was the same down to the penny.


Then she paid too much. One of the most important jobs of a salesman in a automotive dealership is to make you think you got a good deal. In her case they were successful.

 

[billt460]

http://www.bcsalliance.com/zero_percent_financing.html

"Even if you do qualify for zero percent financing, sellers often make up for the lost profits by jacking up the price of the product. They can do this quite easily because the customer is so thrilled with the zero percent financing that he forgets or overlooks the fact that he is overpaying for the product.

"The truth is that paying for a new vehicle or any other item for that matter with zero percent financing is nothing more than a really good marketing tool that is dishonest, very misleading, and borders on qualifying as a credit scam."

"If you reread points 1 through 4 above, you realize that zero percent financing always works best for the seller and not the buyer. For the rest of the people -- about 97 percent of Americans -- zero percent financing is nothing more than a really good gimmick to lure customers in to the showroom and pay significantly more for the items they purchase."

 

[Mr Nice]

Can you ever negotiate the price of vehicle when dealership offers 0% financing ?

If not, then its better to haggle the purchase price and finance through your credit union.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: itguy08
When the wife bought her car, she took the 0% and the price was the same down to the penny.


Then she paid too much. One of the most important jobs of a salesman in a automotive dealership is to make you think you got a good deal. In her case they were successful.


Oh, OK whatever you say. We did get a good deal as far as we can tell comparing invoice prices and what we could figure for her trade. However you really have no idea how this all works or are easily scammed.

We went in, she picked the car, we discussed price and trade. There was some negotiation and then we agreed on price. We went in to the finance guy and she said she wanted 0%. They ran the info, and printed out the contract with the same numbers we discussed.

Should someone be dumb enough not to read over the contract they are signing and have someone jack up the price they are a moron and deserve to pay more. I'm not sure how this is so hard to understand for you?

When I bought out last TV the price was the same at Best Buy, Vizio.com, Amazon and Walmart. I took BB's 0% for 24 months. Didn't pay one cent more than any of the other outlets. They hope you don't pay it off by the time allotted as interest (21.9%) accrues from day 1. I always pay the month before it's due. They also hope you miss a payment as IIRC that triggers the interest to be billed and accrue from Day 1.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Can you ever negotiate the price of vehicle when dealership offers 0% financing ?

If not, then its better to haggle the purchase price and finance through your credit union.


Sure you can. Happens all the time, day in and day out. In my experience purchase price is negotiated well before any discussion on how to pay for it.