Smaller is lighter perhaps.
Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
- Thread starter LouDawg
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Smaller is lighter perhaps.
I for one am glad to hear that Ford's quality is improving. This is not just good for Ford, but increases the pressure on all manufacturers to improve quality.
Me too. Of the domestics, I like Ford offerings the best (save for perhaps the Corvette).
It doesn't seem to matter which carmaker Ford or GM, they stop building what I like.
I liked the Contour, they decontented it and eventually stop building it.
I liked the Chevy Beretta, they decontented it and eventually stopped building it.
I had 3 variants of each of those, trying single handedly to support the car it seems. Still, production stopped.
LOL
It doesn't seem to matter which carmaker Ford or GM, they stop building what I like.
I liked the Contour, they decontented it and eventually stop building it.
I liked the Chevy Beretta, they decontented it and eventually stopped building it.
I had 3 variants of each of those, trying single handedly to support the car it seems. Still, production stopped.
LOL
Their are two kinds of reliability.
One would be how well it holds up to normal driving and the other how well it holds up to hard abuse.
I just watched a police chase on TV forget what they call the show wildest video's or something like that.
This cop was driving a Mustang 5.0 and he was chasing a all wheel drive import that they said was turbo charged.
I'm not sure what the car was but he could not pull away from the Mustang and after several minutes of chase the import overheated and expired and they took him to jail.
Caught by a low tech JUNK FORD.
Their is a moral to this story. Don't try to outrun American muscle with a motorized skateboard powered by a turbo charged chain saw engine.
reliability can be judged in different ways
One would be how well it holds up to normal driving and the other how well it holds up to hard abuse.
I just watched a police chase on TV forget what they call the show wildest video's or something like that.
This cop was driving a Mustang 5.0 and he was chasing a all wheel drive import that they said was turbo charged.
I'm not sure what the car was but he could not pull away from the Mustang and after several minutes of chase the import overheated and expired and they took him to jail.
Caught by a low tech JUNK FORD.
Their is a moral to this story. Don't try to outrun American muscle with a motorized skateboard powered by a turbo charged chain saw engine.
reliability can be judged in different ways
Of course, you cannot outrun the Motorola either
As a former owner of two 5.0 Mustangs (I currently drive a 4.6, which is great) I couldn't agree more. Those cars would go and go.
Back in the '80s, the Utah Highway Patrol used 5.0 Mustangs as their pursuit vehicle. I knew a couple of officers. They always said, "Pursuit doesn't take us long in these babies!"
These days, the UHP is using Dodge Chargers...
New York State was using LT1 and LS1 Camaros for quite a while, not sure if they're still using them or if they've been replaced by another high speed pursuit vehicle.
Here in Oklahoma I've seen a few Dodge Chargers. Usually they're just picking people up in the usual Crown Vic's and Impala's, though.
Here in Oklahoma I've seen a few Dodge Chargers. Usually they're just picking people up in the usual Crown Vic's and Impala's, though.
When the numbers are so small, any statistical difference will yield a high percentage. 0.000002 is 50% higher than 0.000001.
For example - Mercury had 1.51 problems compared to 1.79 for Toyota, thus Mercury is 19% more reliable than Toyota. Mercury is 28% more reliable than Honda - that is a A+ vs a C-
Mercury is 28% more reliable than Honda.
Moral of the story. Punk #@$%! criminal cant out drive well trained cops...
The disadvantage that the domestics have compared to Toyota and the other Japanese automakers is simple:
It doesn't matter who the head of Toyota is. Bet you can't name him, except to guess that his last name might be Toyoda. No, I don't know off the top of my head either. But no matter who runs Toyota, the priority at the company is a quality product and quality engineering for the price.
Now let's use Ford as an example. In the mid-1990s, Ford had billions of dollars in the bank, and the Taurus was the best-selling car in the US. Now here comes Jacque "Jerk" Nasser as head of Ford. Within a few years all the money in the bank was squandered. Where'd it all go? Who knows? It certainly didn't go into the products, which were cheapened across the board in those years. (In fact, the story of how Ford went from having tens of billions to a huge flow of red ink while Nasser was head might be worthy of a criminal investigation.)
The products suffered in short order. I saw the fuss and complaints with the newer products made under Nasser firsthand when I was active on Blueovalnews.com several years ago. By the time Bill Ford took over and canned him, Ford was in the red and the damage was done financially and to the reputation of the company. Now it is trying to get back to where it was 10-12 years ago. It should never have left!
Who ran Ford should never have mattered: the company should never have cheapened its cars and design. Toyota, Honda, and the other Japanese manufacturers would never have. Engineering missteps, maybe, but a deliberate across-the-board cheapening of quality and content, never.
The US automakers appear to get hung on management fads such as the now-debunked Total Quality Management and its fad successor, Six Sigma, whatever the deuce that is. Instead, they should have been taking to heart Dr. Demings's quality teachings, also echoed by Philip B. Crosby in his 1979 book Quality Is Free. That's what Toyota et al. did. When you adopt Demings's methods or some other rational commitment to quality, it doesn't matter who's in charge then.
It doesn't matter who the head of Toyota is. Bet you can't name him, except to guess that his last name might be Toyoda. No, I don't know off the top of my head either. But no matter who runs Toyota, the priority at the company is a quality product and quality engineering for the price.
Now let's use Ford as an example. In the mid-1990s, Ford had billions of dollars in the bank, and the Taurus was the best-selling car in the US. Now here comes Jacque "Jerk" Nasser as head of Ford. Within a few years all the money in the bank was squandered. Where'd it all go? Who knows? It certainly didn't go into the products, which were cheapened across the board in those years. (In fact, the story of how Ford went from having tens of billions to a huge flow of red ink while Nasser was head might be worthy of a criminal investigation.)
The products suffered in short order. I saw the fuss and complaints with the newer products made under Nasser firsthand when I was active on Blueovalnews.com several years ago. By the time Bill Ford took over and canned him, Ford was in the red and the damage was done financially and to the reputation of the company. Now it is trying to get back to where it was 10-12 years ago. It should never have left!
Who ran Ford should never have mattered: the company should never have cheapened its cars and design. Toyota, Honda, and the other Japanese manufacturers would never have. Engineering missteps, maybe, but a deliberate across-the-board cheapening of quality and content, never.
The US automakers appear to get hung on management fads such as the now-debunked Total Quality Management and its fad successor, Six Sigma, whatever the deuce that is. Instead, they should have been taking to heart Dr. Demings's quality teachings, also echoed by Philip B. Crosby in his 1979 book Quality Is Free. That's what Toyota et al. did. When you adopt Demings's methods or some other rational commitment to quality, it doesn't matter who's in charge then.
There is quality, reliability, durability, and probably a few other -ities. I think the domestics hold an edge in durability, but not necessarily the other two.
You're right, for a few years Ford essentially forgot about cars and spent a lot on pickups. If gas were still $1.40 a gallon, there would be no crisis. I haven't noticed any cheapening of content or quality, but a definite lack of new development. Isn't that new 3.5L V6 the first "significant" new engine since the modular V8? That's a long, long time.
You're right, for a few years Ford essentially forgot about cars and spent a lot on pickups. If gas were still $1.40 a gallon, there would be no crisis. I haven't noticed any cheapening of content or quality, but a definite lack of new development. Isn't that new 3.5L V6 the first "significant" new engine since the modular V8? That's a long, long time.
Say what you will, but put the shoe on the other foot. If the cops traded in their Crown Vics for turbo-charged four cylinder cars... my opinion is that they'd more often be beside the road with the hood up and smoke pouring out instead of catching the crook. Just my opinion.
The problem with American cars has always been the accessories not necessarily the drive train. For example water pumps, alternators, fuel pumps, master cylinder, power steering pump... well you get the point. Also, don't forget that transmission problems in many American models has been a serious problem. For example the Crown Vic likes to eat transmissions.
And to address the OP. This link you gave is from the DETROIT News. We can't seriously take one article and say that it is the absolute. Long story short NO, Ford is not even with Toyota. No way no how.
Edit: Read close and you will see that this study was conducted by FORD. LOL... you can't seriously take the story seriously. It's PROPAGANDA at its finest.
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And to address the OP. This link you gave is from the DETROIT News. We can't seriously take one article and say that it is the absolute. Long story short NO, Ford is not even with Toyota. No way no how.
Edit: Read close and you will see that this study was conducted by FORD. LOL... you can't seriously take the story seriously. It's PROPAGANDA at its finest.
If this were the only source (your "one article") that had reported improving quality, then it would be easy to dismiss as propaganda. However, there are other reports that are showing the same trends, not just with Ford but with GM as well. And the study was not "conducted" by Ford, it was "commissioned" by Ford to be conducted by an independent group. There is a difference, but the results are nonetheless statistically valid.
Are they even with Toyota? I don't know...don't really care. I'm just glad to see signs of life, at least in the area of quality.
I know there are many who just sit back and pray for the demise of our auto industry. How sad. There's a lot of "propaganda" about Japanese quality just as you assume there is about domestic quality. I still believe that the doms have some catching up to do, but I also believe they have come a long way and have made legitimate progress. I own both, so I'm not a "hater" or a basher either way. I am just open-minded, unbiased, and simple enough to recognize improvement when I see it.
When looking for a car the Japanese vs domestic decision was a moot point on the first cut for us as we needed bench seats front and back. We're on our third Taurus, which will obviously be the last, and now that the kids are getting poised to move out our options for smaller cars are open. The 99 Taurus which is used for short trips just got 33 mpg on a 250 mile trip :^) So far I'm considering diesels for a car, which again makes Japanese vs others a moot point. We did buy a truck a few years back, a 3/4 ton and a diesel, which yet again made considering Japanese vehicles a moot point. Our first Japanese car, a Honda Civic, only lasted 120k miles, which is hard to ignore when someone says that I should spend more to get a smaller, more relaible vehicle. It was more reliable, it had fewer problems, but again it's a moot point if it only lasts half as long.
I don't see Accords or Camrys being used like we did the Taurus; car camping with five, trunk full, luggage rack, running up and down hills on long trips. I assume that the Japanese cars get used that way, but I just don't recall seeing it at campgrounds. A friend that we camped with had an 'ultra reliable' Toyota Land Cruiser, it wasn't, and at about 100k miles the mileage dropped to about 10mpg, the dealer couldn't fix it, so he got rid of it.
Maybe it's easier for us to make decisions like these as our vehicles have been chosen for utility, not fashion, while most around us seem to consider their vehicles some sort of image statement of who they are.
I don't see Accords or Camrys being used like we did the Taurus; car camping with five, trunk full, luggage rack, running up and down hills on long trips. I assume that the Japanese cars get used that way, but I just don't recall seeing it at campgrounds. A friend that we camped with had an 'ultra reliable' Toyota Land Cruiser, it wasn't, and at about 100k miles the mileage dropped to about 10mpg, the dealer couldn't fix it, so he got rid of it.
Maybe it's easier for us to make decisions like these as our vehicles have been chosen for utility, not fashion, while most around us seem to consider their vehicles some sort of image statement of who they are.
I just hope that Ford can pull itself out of the deep financial situation they are in. They need more fuel efficient vehicles that consumers would consider. Toyota on the other hand has several now.
I think that depends on what turbo-charged four cylinder car you're talking about. Anything European ought to have no problem given that they're run hard on the Autobahns in Germany and likely designed for that use.
Incidentally, I saw very few Toyotas and Hondas in the 2300 miles I drove in Europe (Sweden/Denmark/Germany/Austria, mostly in Germany). Hyundai seems to have more of a market presence than either of those two. Heck, I even saw more Fords in Europe than Toyotas and Hondas.
But of the Asian manufacturers that regularly use turbochargers, Subaru is the only one I can think of, and they didn't seem real common in Germany either.
The 3.5L Duratec V6 was developed from the 3.0L Duratec, so you could say the 3.0L was the first significant new from Ford. It was actually designed by Porsche and Cosworth developed the heads and is produced in Cleveland. Great motor IMHO.
Don't forget all the various Zetec engines.
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