If you go back and read the article, you'll see that actually the domestic brands (Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury) were better than the European brands. They didn't single out Volvo, though. I *assume* it's more of the Land Rover and Jaguar contingents and their myriad problems.
Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
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If you go back and read the article, you'll see that actually the domestic brands (Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury) were better than the European brands. They didn't single out Volvo, though. I *assume* it's more of the Land Rover and Jaguar contingents and their myriad problems.
If my own money were at stake, I'd choose a well-built vehicle from a cheezeball marketing, massive-quarterly-losses, sale-priced automaker than dole out the big bucks in badge premiums to some arrogant, pretentious, full MSRP-priced, overconfident, overrated vehicle manufacturer
No names being mentioned here... and I'm certainly not a fan of Ford.
No names being mentioned here... and I'm certainly not a fan of Ford.
I admit, I got my dates wrong.
However, the part about the Taurus staying at 200HP/200 ft-lbs of peak torque while Honda and Nissan at the very least were upping the HP on their V6's.
Just because it's not the best for you, there are many who will choose the Honda or Toyota or Nissan based on more HP on the ad sheet.
However, the part about the Taurus staying at 200HP/200 ft-lbs of peak torque while Honda and Nissan at the very least were upping the HP on their V6's.
Just because it's not the best for you, there are many who will choose the Honda or Toyota or Nissan based on more HP on the ad sheet.
Lou , the way that articule is written "Ford Motor Company" ie including the Euro makes ..... puts FMC at a tie with toyota and Nissan . Without the Euro brands they are ahead (so very slightly) - 1456/1000 vs 1458/1000 ..... so the "myraid" problems don't do much here .......see below .
" - The RDA study found Ford cars and trucks had 1,458 problems per 1,000 vehicles -- 32 fewer problems than the industry average of 1,490 and 128 fewer than Ford customers reported last year.
The results were even better for Ford's North American brands -- Ford, Lincoln and Mercury -- which combined had 1,456 problems per 1,000 vehicles. Sources said the overall number was slightly hurt by the automaker's European brands.
The Milan was one of the most problem-free vehicles from any manufacturer, with just 910 issues reported per 1,000 vehicles -"
Two other things worth noting ;
Industry average of 1490/1000 so consider all the brands not mentioned - not much of a spread ie 1490 vs 1458 ie 1.49 per vehicle vs 1.458 per vehicle ie .032 or going back the other way 32 more problems noted per 1000 .
% wise ,(1490/1458) it shows a 2.1948% defect rate disadvantage for the average vehicle vs FMC , toyota , and Nissan - which ain't much to go on .
(It will be interesting to see Hondas number - I'll be surprised if the difference between #1 and 2nd isn't even smaller) .
#2 , the most impressive number by far , (in an articule w/o enough numbers) is the 910/1000 on the Milan .
Anytime you get below 1000/1000 - thats an accomplishment of first order . Combine that with best in class ie vs camry and Accord ......
In fact lets just look at a "unfair" but relevant use of that number to put that in perspective .
Look at the Milan vs toyota and Nissans whole fleet number .
1458/910 = 1.6022 ie the average defect rate for toyota and Nissan is 60.22% higher than for the Milan .
My question is why such a difference between the Milan and the Fusion?
I've seen this before, where the Taurus and the Sable, built on the same assembly lines, the Sable has fewer issues.
I believe I've seen the same types of things regarding Crown Vic's and Grand Marq's.
I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just curious how cars that I believe are built on the same assembly line, same engineering, just different badges and grills have different initial defect numbers.
I was looking for numbers, but can't find them. So it's entirely possible I just dreamt all this up.
I've seen this before, where the Taurus and the Sable, built on the same assembly lines, the Sable has fewer issues.
I believe I've seen the same types of things regarding Crown Vic's and Grand Marq's.
I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just curious how cars that I believe are built on the same assembly line, same engineering, just different badges and grills have different initial defect numbers.
I was looking for numbers, but can't find them. So it's entirely possible I just dreamt all this up.
I saw that too (differences between Sable and Taurus), that was in CR, I just chalked it up to CR's less than scientific methods.
Just FYI, Honda had the 195ft-lbs/200hp v6 in their Accords since the '98 model year (which, IIRC, was introduced in late '97). Upping horsepower doesn't mean much, it usually just takes the improvement of manifolds, cam timing, etc. The J series engine that Honda uses for almost everything has been around since 97-98, with varying displacements and power outputs (3.0, 3.2, 3.5, etc) amongst the different models.
Personally, a lot of the import/domestic bashing that goes on around here is pretty ridiculous, and somewhat disturbing given the nature of this forum (oil analysis: we review things based on FACTS). I really can't believe you guys take any statements and "news" about import brands and comparisons between imports and domestics from a website called DETROIT NEWS seriously.
Personally, I think a true measure of a car's quality comes from its long term performance. How many cars do you know have lasted 250k+ miles on their original EVERYTHING, minus wear items such as brake pads, air filters, rotors, tires, etc? Alternators, power steering pumps, A/C components, etc, do not count. If you look closely you can find many japanese import and domestic brands that meet this criteria. I won't pretend to be able to back up the claim that the Japanese hold the majority in this criteria, as there is no data out there that will back it up.
If I wanted reliable, safe, and good daily transportation, I'd go for a Honda/Toyota.
If I wanted to haul stuff, I'd want a GM 1/2 ton or higher, or a Ford F250 or higher, unless Toyota makes significant headway with their new Tundra (personally I think it may take one more generation before they finally are able to match the domestics in utility, and actually have the ability to gain market share with the higher pricing).
If I want to go racing, I'd get a Corvette, or an S2000 if it's for Auto-X.
One thing's for sure, I'd never buy a Chrysler product.
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Well my last Ford Duratec motor had 176,000 miles when I sold it. Still was running great, no oil leaks and olny burn 1/2 quart oil in 10K OCI. That's main reason I bought a Ford Freestyle because it has Duratec.
FORD = "Fun On the Road Driving" - Just my humble opinion...
Ford's 190/200HP 3.0L Duratec came out in 1996. (As I recall it was 190HP with single exhaust; 200HP with dual exhaust). I am unsure if it was first used in the 1996 Taurus/Sable or the 1997 Taurus/Sable.
I always love these intitial reports..talk to me at 100,00 miles or so....then tell me how great Fix Or Repair Daily is....
and Mazda had a 2.5L V6 producing 200hp in their KLZE engine (Japan market only) back in 1993.
I am glad I have a sense of humor! My diaphram contracted so hard that if my lungs,airway and mouth were not their to modulate the huge swings from over pressure to vaccum I would be dead right now!
They seem to be OK at 180,000 miles
Oh yeah?! Honda is better because they had 5ft-lbs more than Ford! Booyah! LOLLERSKATES
I was just pointing it out, didn't want to start arguing about which manufacturers had X amount of HP output for X years, because the domestics wil always win that argument
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Oh yeah?! Honda is better because they had 5ft-lbs more than Ford! Booyah! LOLLERSKATES
I was just pointing it out, didn't want to start arguing about which manufacturers had X amount of HP output for X years, because the domestics wil always win that argument
I think if you look at V8's, this is probably true. Certainly torque is where domestic car makers shine. If you like torque, then domestic is probably where you will find your kinda car.
I loved the song of my THREE 2.5L Duratec's. I owned two Contours and one 2000 Mazda MPV. All with the 2.5L Duratec. I loved rowing my 98 Contour SVT through the gears and taking it to it's redline. It was a mechanical symphony.
I'll be 42 years old, and I never owned a V8 until I purchased my 1995 Thunderbird in January of 2004 with the 4.6L V8.
However, I think the Japanese and Germans have recently lead the field when it comes to the higher horsepower 4 cylinders. The domestic car makers have or are catching up.
In some ways, they were way out in front.
Another domestic that I loved was my 1990 Beretta GTZ with the 2.3L Quad 4 that pumped out 180HP. I believe some of the later Olds variants put out 195HP.
But, GM had issue with the engine. Head gaskets, and what not and eventually gave up on it.
It appears the current GM 4 cylinder, the Ecotec (or is that Ecotech?) is a pretty nice powerplant.
Don't even ask me about the 2.0L OHC engine in my ex-wife's Pontiac Sunbird with two head gasket replacements in under 75K miles.
Looking at V6's, the Duratec came out of the gate strong. I haven't looked at how it compares to the Nissan VQ series V6 throughout the age.
However, most would probably agree that the three for four "best" (and I use the term loosly) V6's available in the US are the Nissan VQ series V6, the Ford Duratec V6, the Honda DOHC V6 and the 3800 series V6 from GM.
I think they've all been on Ward's 10 best engines list. However, I think the Nissan and GM offerings have the most repeat appearances, but I could be wrong.
Perhaps some of the preference is based on what people like to drive.
If you like a larger car that turns 1700 RPMs at 75 MPH, then Toyota probably is not your cup of tea.
If you want to row through the gears to redline once a day or more, and hear a mechanical symphony, then maybe Honda or Nissan or perhaps something sporty from Ford with that 3.5L V6 and RWD would be the ticket.
High strung 4's and 6's don't really scare me. I have 206K on my '94 Geo Prizm, and it sees the redline a few times a week as I row through the gears. I've done that for the past 100K miles that I've owned it.
So it can't hurt.
However, it doesn't sound as good as did my Contour SVT did when I still had that
I'd buy that if we were talking durability. However, we are talking initial quality.
I don't think maintenance habits would kick in during the first year or so of ownership.
I could buy some sampling error.
Perhaps fewer fleet cars for the Mercury variants makes a big difference.
However, we are just speculating. I wonder what the real answer is?
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