Ford Mustang Replaces Tesla as Consumer Reports EV of the year

(Well, I can see Ill be on the other side once again in a thread)

SO you are evaluating Consumer Reports surveys based on what? Do you know a more scientific way to do it? Consumer Reports sends out survey to its members and you in this thread call that a problem because they chose a care over one that you like?
Then go and post a thread from a forum to back up your statement which would lead me to believe you think 6 pages of a discussion in a forum is more scientific?
Yet you didnt mind when Tesla was their top pick?
I like CR, always have. I subscribed for years. I also do not agree with all their findings for several reasons. They tend to be short term, which is OK for some things but not for big capital purchases. They are not world wide. I do not agree with all their definitions, such as reliability.
Reliability is the quality of being trustworthy or of performing consistently well. It is not panel gaps.

Regarding their Tesla reviews, at 1st they called the Model S the highest scoring vehicle they ever tested, then it was not recommended.
They call other Teslas unreliable, but rate them very high in customer satisfaction.

In all honesty, I have not read CR in years.

Regarding the Mustang Mach-E, there have been recalls and issues, but I'm sure their owners will, for the most part, love them.
 
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Yeah, like CR testers are a true result vs 6 pages in a forum discussing production bugs including non working large door openers.
Sorry man, a scientific survey is close with Consumer Reports to compare it to a forum with a handful to few handfuls of people is ridiculous, you can pull up a forum on any vehicle, including Tesla which to this day still seems to have a LOT of paint and body issues, according to the "forums" I would freak out if the paint was defective on my $50,000 vehicle according to the forums, some even complain of rust.

Which also brings me to stock valuation = Tesla stock price at 200 times earnings, Ford at 3.5 times earnings. I hope for those long term investors Musk pulls something out of a hat to keep the price justified. BTW I LIKE ELON MUSK
Stock price is determined by investor's confidence in future stock performance. I am not sure if you own TSLA; it is certainly a rollercoaster.
I am holding for the long term, but so far it has been an excellent purchase for me. I am still kicking myself for buying the car instead of the stock!
 
Once the big boys get ramped up with electrics I think Tesla will be in trouble.
And seeing some recent commercials some of the new electrics are flat out gorgeous.
And bling sells cars especially to women.
No self respecting soccer Mom is going to pick up her rats at soccer in an ugly vehicle.
Or go to the nail salon for that matter.

The "big boys" may ramp up production, but unless Tesla stands still and follows the old VW Bug model of pretty much releasing the car unchanged from one model year to the next, Tesla will always be years ahead in technology. I'll bet at some point that many automakers are either buying their batteries from Tesla or paying license fees to have them manufactured for their EV's. And paying license fees for Tesla software.

I agree that some of the new EV's are flat out gorgeous but unfortunately they seem to be the models that have an MSRP of $100-$150 K. Obviously there is plenty of room for improvement, surely the cost to design an ugly car vs. a beautiful car must be comparable.

Unless our economy makes a major improvement in the next few years all of those soccer moms and nail salon customers won't be that interested in $100k cars regardless of how they are powered. But give them a $40K EV SUV style and maybe a "Gucci Edition" like the hideous old designer edition Lincolns that Ford used to market, and then you'll see plenty of them on the streets in your neighborhoods.

Back to Consumer Reports and the new Mustang EV: Undoubtedly Ford is selling quite a few to brand loyal customers and Tesla haters who want an EV. But you have to keep in mind that their sample size is restricted to their subscribers. How does JD Power accumulate their data and what is the difference in sample sizes ? You have to put everything in perspective.
 
I like CR, always have. I subscribed for years. I also do not agree with all their findings for several reasons. They tend to be short term, which is OK for some things but not for big capital purchases. They are not world wide. I do not agree with all their definitions, such as reliability.
Reliability is the quality of being trustworthy or of performing consistently well. It is not panel gaps.

Regarding their Tesla reviews, at 1st they called the Model S the highest scoring vehicle they ever tested, then it was not recommended.
They call other Teslas unreliable, but rate them very high in customer satisfaction.

In all honesty, I have not read CR in years.

Regarding the Mustang Mach-E, there have been recalls and issues, but I'm sure their owners will, for the most part, love them.
Consumer reports does not have an "unreliable" category.
It simply reports the findings of its subscribers. So there is more "much reliable than average, more reliable than average, average and less reliable than average much worse than average".
SO you pick and chose based on what is important to you.

You can pick apart any publication, nothing is perfect, including forums for sure. I use Consumer reports in this way. Every vehicle has issues, I choose the vehicle with the issues I can live with and discard the ones I cant.
I wont buy a vehicle with much worse than average rating on "Engine Major" or "Transmission" but that's me.
Consumer reports will give you a good clue as to what to expect better than any other publication, in fact there are none.

Ive owned a lot of vehicles in my lifetime, new, used ect. I found it pretty accurate on the way people report their vehicles to Consumer Reports.
Ive been back to American cars for the last decade now, oops, except my wife's 2012 Mazda Skyactive which has stellar reliability reporting, I can testify that is true, at only 85,000 miles (car not use much) the 2012 Mazda never needed a repair yet. TEN years, no repairs. (gulp)

I have a new to us 2017 Chevy Traverse with factory tow package (was a must have), bought with 25,000 miles in diamond condition during the height of covid March 2020 from a dealer GM Certified, 100,000 mile warranty, just checked Carvana yesterday, truck is retailing for 4 to $5000 more than I paid for it 2 years ago and 30,000 miles. GM rarely gets stellar reviews from Consumer Reports BUT my main criteria is Engine and Transmission which it does well for my model year, nothing beats the price, performance and tow rating and options that are important to us.
Same story on the vehicle before that 2008 Dodge Durango with a nice big v8..*LOL*
 
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CR is not being biased. The bias is for Tesla to be parades and flowers all the time, if not, it's the messenger who is not right. Cast doubt because it does not agree with what I like. Now that is bias. Personally never fell for that attack the messenger stuff, unless it is someone on you tube making crazy displays. CR is not that way at all.
 
....

Back to Consumer Reports and the new Mustang EV: Undoubtedly Ford is selling quite a few to brand loyal customers and Tesla haters who want an EV. But you have to keep in mind that their sample size is restricted to their subscribers. How does JD Power accumulate their data and what is the difference in sample sizes ? You have to put everything in perspective.
Absolutely, you use it as a guide, I mean would you really want to buy a vehicle with the absolute worst reporting from owners of the car for major engine or transmission repairs? I know I wouldnt but the other stuff? yeah, you pick what is important for you. Rust, paint issues ect.

Now as far as the Mustang, Well, I know one nephew just bought one in Nov 2021 and now the other just ordered one in April 2022, these are intelligent, practical, hardworking, successful people. So if I was them I would think it was pretty cool that Consumer Reports selected the Mustang EV as top EV pick, after all Consumer Reports extensively drives ALL EV's and replaced their top pick Tesla with a Mustang.
To me that is pretty darn impressive if I just bought a Mustang. This isnt a pissing match over reliability, its their top choice based on ride quality, performance ect... I think being they drive these cars everyday of the week that is a pretty strong statement and no other publication has that creditability.
 
I like CR, always have. I subscribed for years. I also do not agree with all their findings for several reasons.
Aye, but:
but rate them very high in customer satisfaction.
Yes, and you've quoted that metric in favour of Tesla several times ;) We don't get to ignore one aspect of CR's testing while flaunting another because it aligns more favourably with our bias ;)

They liked the Mach-E. I liked the Mach-E when I drove it. I like the BMW i4 better (it has a HUD, and leather). The market is in its infancy and has gone from one major player to several now, most of which are on only their 1st or 2nd vehicle or iteration. I think we'll see a lot change in this segment in the next few years, which I believe I've pointed out in the past, as legacy OEM's work to try and find out what the consumer actually wants in an EV. This is a very different approach from Tesla who, like Apple, have a very specific idea of what the experience "should be" and are sticking with that.
 
The thing with customer sat is that it isnt CR's opinion. Its owners.
 
I am happy with my 21 Mach E Select. I love the smooth and powerful acceleration. I love the fact that I drive past gas stations and just plug it into a 110 outlet. I have the Ford charger, but have not had time to install it yet. For long trips I still have my just broken in VW Jetta TDI with only 307K miles on it, I bought it brand new.

I considered the Premier model but bought the Select because the Premier has a glass roof, which is not such a great idea in Arizona. I got the upgrade package which got me most of the important features of the Premier.
 
@alarmguy since I did not read the Mach-E report, what was the reasons CR picked it? Highs and lows? I appreciate your thoughts.
Well this was in the link I posted in the OP =
“Make no mistake, the Model 3 is still a great choice, and Consumer Reports recommends it,” CR’s deputy editor Jeff Bartlett writes today. “But the Mustang Mach-E is also very sporty, plus it’s more practical and easier to live with. The Ford is also quieter and rides better. Both cars have large infotainment center screens, but the Mach-E’s is far easier to operate and doesn’t require multiple steps to activate routine features, such as using the defroster or adjusting the mirrors, as with the Tesla.”

I cant comment on the road test, I dont have the copy, only the 2022 Annual Buying guide but will look. I dont think I had the Subscription at the time it came out... I only subscribe every other year most times and use the buying guides, also I had subscriptions to their online portal but I see I didnt renew it and the full set report is on the portal if one wants to subscribe...
The reason I dont subscribe every year is for political reasons, I dont like their positions so my way of punishing them... *LOL*
 
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CR customer satisfaction ratings and reliability ratings are different ratings. At times poorly rated on reliability has high customer satisfaction. EV have higher satisfaction in general I believe. Trying to connect satisfaction and reliability on CR ratings is nice to try to dismiss Teslas low reliability rating in the past, but the reliability rating is what it is.
 
The "big boys" may ramp up production, but unless Tesla stands still and follows the old VW Bug model of pretty much releasing the car unchanged from one model year to the next, Tesla will always be years ahead in technology. I'll bet at some point that many automakers are either buying their batteries from Tesla or paying license fees to have them manufactured for their EV's. And paying license fees for Tesla software.
Interesting take.
- Tesla is using a specific cell design (cylindrical) while many of the other marques went with pouch. That's despite the fact that cylindrical isn't exclusive to Tesla, it was a choice they made. BMW and a few others went Prismatic, apparently for packaging, thermal management, and a few other reasons.

- Software. Tesla has mature BMS, sure, they've been at it the longest. Many of the traditional OEM's also have mature BMS from their time producing hybrids. Ford, Toyota, GM, BMW...etc all come to mind. Tesla's infotainment system is a gross departure from what the legacy OEM's have been producing for the last decade or so. Having used it, and its competitors from BMW, Audi and Ford, I wouldn't say it is markedly better. Rather, it's different. It lacks many things that people like about legacy products:
1. Physical buttons for HVAC, audio, seat heat...etc.
2. Smart Device integration with CarPlay or Android Auto
3. Heads-up Display - this is a glaring omission

Their adaptive cruise (autopilot) is neat, but adaptive cruise from the majors works fine too. The sentinel mode is also neat, but BMW has that now too, along with drive recorder, the phone as the key...etc. Heck, the iX can record the inside of the vehicle.

There are two very different approaches being pursued here, as I noted in my reply to Jeff, and I believe I pointed out in another thread. Tesla is building Elon's version of what he thinks an EV should be. Hence the omission of the HUD, the spartan interior, the lack of leather...etc. It's very much the Apple approach to car design, you'll like what we build, because that's how it is. The thing is that the Tesla ecosystem isn't as expansive as the Apple one, and doesn't integrate as deeply into people's lives, so there's more room for other marques to poach customers, because ultimately, we are just talking about cars here.

The legacy marques on the other hand are trying to figure out what resonates with people; what will encourage them to trade in their existing Ford, Toyota, BMW, Honda, Mercedes, GM, Volvo...etc and buy the EV version? There is a massive learning exercise underway here with this mission, and that's why I believe we'll see some major changes in this space in the next few years.

- Audi's first foray into this space, the e-tron, which I've owned, was very much an electrified Q5-Q7 SUV in how it drove and operated. They made it feel "familiar", but that was "too familiar" for some, they wanted it to be a bit more different. Also, it was deathly quiet. It has a level of sound deadening that I've never experienced in a vehicle before, utterly incredible. However, when the vehicle makes no noise, and is that well insulated, it feels a bit weird.

- Ford's first kick at the can, with the Mach-e, was to make it sporty, but in a CUV-manner, so that it appealed to a broader audience. Gave it utility, while trying to at least give a bit of respect to the name it shares with the legendary pony car. They put a small cluster in it, but no HUD. They are using a very large portrait screen with Microsoft's excellent Sync system. They have done a good job with materials selection and comfort. They had some issues with the glass roof. This vehicle has been for Ford, more of a success than the e-tron was for Audi. It pipes sound through to the interior, it feels "lively", it's more like a traditional car in many respects and that helps.

- BMW's second kick at the can, in the form of the i4 and iX is, in my opinion, the best effort I've seen from a legacy OEM thus far (barring the front-end styling). They've put in creep, the car has "a sound", but it's not like a "tron" sound, it's just like a background noise so it isn't deathly quiet like the e-tron. The HUD is excellent, like the Audi, but these vehicles have their own screens and their own spin on iDrive so that the stand out a bit from the regular BMW fleet, but don't feel foreign. The car drives like a BMW. I can't emphasize that enough, BMW has always had the driver-focused reputation and they've done an excellent job of wrapping that into the i4 (which I preferred to the iX). It feels like you are driving an M sedan. It's not spartan or open, it's luxurious and well appointed. Will that work for them? We'll have to wait and see. A lack of available cars to purchase right now certainly isn't helping. I was extremely enticed by the i4 M50, but having to order it and wait up to a year cooled that enthusiasm. There's a very high probability I would have bought the one I test drove if that was possible at the time, I loved it that much.

Now, I have no experience with any of the VW EV's or the Taycan. I've looked at Taycan's, but I just can't justify spending that much money. The i4 M50 is right in the same price bracket as the Model 3 and Y Performance on the other hand, so a much easier sell. Mercedes doesn't seem to have any EV's available in Canada yet, so no chance to look at any of those.

Ultimately, I think this is a very exciting time. There is set to be some serious upheaval in the car market with this push to bring desirable EV's to market and I think the focus will be on what sets these other marques apart from Tesla, not what they'll be able to fold-in with Tesla as a supplier. As the space becomes more competitive and manufacturing costs reduce as maturity develops, I don't think Tesla's head start will weigh as heavily in terms of an advantage as it is perceived to be at the present time.
 
The thing with customer sat is that it isnt CR's opinion. Its owners.
Sure, but I was able to find another customer satisfaction publication that ranked the OEM's quite differently, which I posted at the time. There's inherently going to be some variability here depending on the size of the group sampled, demographics...etc.
 
They both have solar panels recently installed on their homes and being they are in a metro area should be a nice deal for them. (meaning it wont be for long trips in the cars and charge at home, in fact they dont even have to drive to work)


This sounds more like a ego impulse purchase decision. Not to be mean here but I still sense that ego drives a lot of EV purchases.
 
Aye, but:

Yes, and you've quoted that metric in favour of Tesla several times ;) We don't get to ignore one aspect of CR's testing while flaunting another because it aligns more favourably with our bias ;)

They liked the Mach-E. I liked the Mach-E when I drove it. I like the BMW i4 better (it has a HUD, and leather). The market is in its infancy and has gone from one major player to several now, most of which are on only their 1st or 2nd vehicle or iteration. I think we'll see a lot change in this segment in the next few years, which I believe I've pointed out in the past, as legacy OEM's work to try and find out what the consumer actually wants in an EV. This is a very different approach from Tesla who, like Apple, have a very specific idea of what the experience "should be" and are sticking with that.
Agree. At the risk of overgeneralizing, Tesla designs and builds their cars as EVs, of course that's all they do. Plus, this allows for a lot of part commanality, which helps production and margins. They are also highly vertically integrated. As you point out with your Apple analgy, they do not follow the pack, thir products are high tech beyond the electric drivetrain.
Tesla as a company is a leader; they built their own chargin network.
To a large degree, this differentiates them from legacy car makers.

You may or may not agree, but everyone is chasing them. The numbers don't lie.
I understand many seem to think I an a fan boy, but perhaps people might read my posts from a business standpoint. That's my background. And Elon took the deserted Fremont NUMMI facility and now employs more than 10,000 people there. I like that.

And I love all the cars. Look at my ownership. If I was just a little crazier, I might be visiting one of our local dealerships and ask to drive one of those grop dead gorgeous Taycans... Wifey sure had goo goo eyes over one...
 
CR customer satisfaction ratings and reliability ratings are different ratings. At times poorly rated on reliability has high customer satisfaction. EV have higher satisfaction in general I believe. Trying to connect satisfaction and reliability on CR ratings is nice to try to dismiss Teslas low reliability rating in the past, but the reliability rating is what it is.
My sons 2018 Mustang GT gets a bad reliability rating and a high customer satisfaction rating.
My son is in love with his GT and if something breaks he will fix it and happily motor on.
His main ride is a 2013 F150 4x4 (having just a rear wheel drive car in Colorado is not smart)and the GT is just a toy.
The GT a beautiful black out edition with a stick shift with lots of after market parts. Vroom Vroom.
 
Aye, but:

Yes, and you've quoted that metric in favour of Tesla several times ;) We don't get to ignore one aspect of CR's testing while flaunting another because it aligns more favourably with our bias ;)

They liked the Mach-E. I liked the Mach-E when I drove it. I like the BMW i4 better (it has a HUD, and leather). The market is in its infancy and has gone from one major player to several now, most of which are on only their 1st or 2nd vehicle or iteration. I think we'll see a lot change in this segment in the next few years, which I believe I've pointed out in the past, as legacy OEM's work to try and find out what the consumer actually wants in an EV. This is a very different approach from Tesla who, like Apple, have a very specific idea of what the experience "should be" and are sticking with that.
Off topic a little bit. you may know my son works for BMW, moving to SC when he graduated HS was a saving grace for him. He loves the product and proud of it, works hard but gets paid and treated well. I know nothing about their EV's but I *LOL* love riding in his cars and SUVs.
Anyway, Ill have to tell him about your comments on the i4.

Interesting times for sure, love this stuff, always have since a kid electronics, wonder at this point in my life how much into the future I will be able to enjoy past the next decade or two (gulp)
 
Its a great time to be a client.
Sure, but I was able to find another customer satisfaction publication that ranked the OEM's quite differently, which I posted at the time. There's inherently going to be some variability here depending on the size of the group sampled, demographics...etc.

Absolutely - there is another well known publication that is a for profit marketing company and their choices unsurprisingly follow the money.

I really like a number of these cars and if never leaving the range circle of my house the choices become a lot greater. (the bimmer specifically)

If I need the car to go farther with regularity today there is only one brand of car I would take a cross country trip in without considerable range anxiety, although I could certainly get there and figure it out there is only one I'd put my mom or dad in to do the same.

When it comes to this, the brand that it is the easiest to do this in, is also the brand that performs the best in this measurement consistently posting the shortest travel times by significant margins.
 
Interesting take.
- Tesla is using a specific cell design (cylindrical) while many of the other marques went with pouch. That's despite the fact that cylindrical isn't exclusive to Tesla, it was a choice they made. BMW and a few others went Prismatic, apparently for packaging, thermal management, and a few other reasons.

Its also interesting that by choice they went with a third round of cylindrical vs anything else they could have done - and they coul'd have done anything they wanted.

We are starting to see teslas with significant miles on them and can be confident as purchasers that these packs degrade in very consistently an reliably on top be being some of the fastest charging out there.

As for the other types were just going to have to wait a little longer to see, but I've seen no indications that they haven't made the right call and plenty to indicate possible long term problems with prismatics and pouches..
 
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