Ford Mustang Replaces Tesla as Consumer Reports EV of the year

[alarmguy]

Our car has not been recalled.

"our car" ??

and my response was to this statement =
"The mach e isnt nearly as capable of OTA upgrades as the teslas are requiring far more trips back to the dealers."

I dont see the facts and figures of a first to second production run of the Mach E requiring "far more trips back to the dealer" than a Tesla
A bizarre statement.

 

[UncleDave]

This is subjective without facts and figures, recalls for physical issues can not be solved OTA.
Such as the recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models, Model S faulty hood latches that can open, last summer 6000 cars for loose brake calipers, Im not sure if the 135,000 recalls for the touch screen was OTA or not.
These are just some recalls, ignoring paint issues and standard warranty work.

Some issues solved OTA have been what sounds like a persistent issue with the boom box?
Anyway, I am not in ANY WAY disparaging Tesla but I am sticking up for another company vehicle based on common sense, lets not disparage the brand new production runs of a brand new car like Mach E which sounds like you are doing "requiring far more trips to the dealer".

Spend some time in each's forums and take a look at what has to go back in each case and both have to go back for physicals, but for any kind of electronic upgrade the tesla stays home way more often. Lots of Ford dealers are struggling with this car.

Most cars have a combined physical and electronic " recalls".

Its true most physical items cant be solved with OTA, but a surprising number of subsystems can be modded when your car has a unified control system, vs distributed controls.

The differences between the two architectures are significant and when you see how each car is built you can get a good idea of the differences in update architecture by watching sandy munroe's breakdown of how many subsystems each car has. It's well worth your watching.

Did you read the boombox recall?
I nearly laughed out loud at the reason for the recall was that - the boombox could overpower the artificial noise for blind pedestrians all ev's must make at low speed. Either way it got " fixed" overnight in everyones garage.

On build quality I was very surprised to see the problems that came out the ford factory - You can see saw every problem tesla had and more yourself on eth mach e forums roofs flying off cracked glass, misaligned panels, doors....its all there.

The high water car in the EV world the Taycan also has fit and finish issues - you can see all kinds of surprising stuff in the taycan forums.

 

[JeffKeryk]

"our car" ??

and my response was to this statement =
"The mach e isnt nearly as capable of OTA upgrades as the teslas are requiring far more trips back to the dealers."

I dont see the facts and figures of a first to second production run of the Mach E requiring "far more trips back to the dealer" than a Tesla
A bizarre statement.

I was referring to your post #58 about all Model 3 cars being recalled. I bolded that part.
"Such as the recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models"

 

[Silver]

Dave Ramsey and CR.

 

[alarmguy]

Spend some time in each's forums and take a look at what has to go back in each case and both have to go back for physicals, but for any kind of electronic upgrade the tesla stays home way more often. Lots of Ford dealers are struggling with this car.

Most cars have a combined physical and electronic " recalls".

Its true most physical items cant be solved with OTA, but a surprising number of subsystems can be modded when your car has a unified control system, vs distributed controls.

The differences between the two architectures are significant and when you see how each car is built you can get a good idea of the differences in update architecture by watching sandy munroe's breakdown of how many subsystems each car has. It's well worth your watching.

Did you read the boombox recall?
I nearly laughed out loud at the reason for the recall was that - the boombox could overpower the artificial noise for blind pedestrians all ev's must make at low speed. Either way it got " fixed" overnight in everyones garage.

On build quality I was very surprised to see the problems that came out the ford factory - You can see saw every problem tesla had and more yourself on eth mach e forums roofs flying off cracked glass, misaligned panels, doors....its all there.

The high water car in the EV world the Taycan also has fit and finish issues - you can see all kinds of surprising stuff in the taycan forums.

ah ... forums ... again ... no thanks

 

[alarmguy]

I was referring to your post #58 about all Model 3 cars being recalled. I bolded that part.
"Such as the recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models"

I guess I am thrown off by your words "our car" I dont know what that means... I guess you have a Tesla 3 ...
If you have a 2017 to 2020 maybe you were not notified yet? I only used the word "all" because that is what is being published. I didnt make it up.

Right from Tesla's mouth = "the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Tesla reported that 356,309 Model 3 cars are affected"
"Tesla has recalled all 356,309 Model 3 cars from model years 2017 to 2020 because the backup camera might stop working."

Here is one source I got it from = https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38641024/tesla-model-3-trunk-backup-camera-recall/

and

recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models


____

 

[UncleDave]

ah ... forums ... again ... no thanks

Owner forums are the very best way to see firsthand whats being delivered to your average guy vs a handbuilt highly prepped and sanitized car handed to a journalist.

 

[alarmguy]

Owner forums are the very best way to see firsthand whats being delivered to your average guy vs a handbuilt highly prepped and sanitized car handed to a journalist.

Yeah, forums can help you look out for things but definitely no where factual numbers of production vs problems.
I have no idea what you are talking about journalist, and this is where forums go wrong. Words get twisted into something they are not.

This is why forums can be a tool but so much bias in the posts vs fact.
Consumer Reports reports facts from surveys of their readers, they dont make things up, its black and white.

Forums skew information like that if their preferred product doesnt show as good as another. (bias)

 

[JeffKeryk]

I guess I am thrown off by your words "our car" I dont know what that means... I guess you have a Tesla 3 ...
If you have a 2017 to 2020 maybe you were not notified yet? I only used the word "all" because that is what is being published. I didnt make it up.

Right from Tesla's mouth = "the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Tesla reported that 356,309 Model 3 cars are affected"
"Tesla has recalled all 356,309 Model 3 cars from model years 2017 to 2020 because the backup camera might stop working."

Here is one source I got it from = https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38641024/tesla-model-3-trunk-backup-camera-recall/

and

recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models


____

We bought a 2018 Model 3 Mid Range in Dec 2018 just before the $7500 tax credit was halved. Took delivery Christmas week.
And now that you mention it, I did get something in the mail speaking of possible camera wiring I believe. It said we would be notified if any action was needed.
Having said that, the car has been modified numerous times via OTA updates. They are common. Some are fixes, some are improvements. For example, range was increased and 0 to 60 times were reduced by .5 second.

Here's my list:
2021 Lexus RX450h F Sport
2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2

 

[alarmguy]

We bought a 2018 Model 3 Mid Range in Dec 2018 just before the $7500 tax credit was halved. Took delivery Christmas week.
And now that you mention it, I did get something in the mail speaking of possible camera wiring I believe. It said we would be notified if any action was needed.
Having said that, the car has been modified numerous times via OTA updates. They are common. Some are fixes, some are improvements. For example, range was increased and 0 to 60 times were reduced by .5 second.

Here's my list:
2021 Lexus RX450h F Sport
2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2

what do you enjoy more, the Lexus RX450 or Tesla 3 ? ( I know they are two completely different experiences and purpose, I think)
Do you still own the 442?

When I was 17 ish I had a 67 GTO , his/her shifter, phase 3 factory high performance engine, (even came with chrome valve covers and chrome dual snorkel air cleaner, I added ram air to it *LOL*

 

[JeffKeryk]

what do you enjoy more, the Lexus RX450 or Tesla 3 ?

Completely different vehicles. The Tesla is a furturistic "point and shoot" little rocket.
The RX is a wonderful, ultimate Costco vehicle. Great mileage for what it is.

The RX is old skool uppity, the Model 3 thumbs its nose at tradition. Different in so may ways.

I am not an SUV guy; gimme a sedan or pickup. The RX is Sue's. But so are the other cars! She like her trusty TSX.
Here's my take: After driving the Tesla, with its minimalist desigh, the RX seems overly complicated, confusing. You have to take your eyes off the road and hunt to do simple things.
To adjust the heated seats on the Tesla, you push the right steering wheel button and say, "My butt is cold" or "My butt is hot."
Ditto streamed music and so much more. "Set the temp to 68."

We go from Los Gatos to Petaluma (90 miles through The City) frequently between 2 houses. The RX gets you ther comfortably, has great view of the road, not a care in the world. The small Model 3 might need a short top off charge and there is that range anxiety, even though there a plenty of places to charge. It will not be as comfortable, for sure.

If I could have only 1 car, it would be the RX over the Model 3. But that would be no fun, I guess.
These are just my opinions... Each to their own.

 

[UncleDave]

Yeah, forums can help you look out for things but definitely no where factual numbers of production vs problems.
I have no idea what you are talking about journalist, and this is where forums go wrong. Words get twisted into something they are not.

This is why forums can be a tool but so much bias in the posts vs fact.
Consumer Reports reports facts from surveys of their readers, they dont make things up, its black and white.

Forums skew information like that if their preferred product doesnt show as good as another. (bias)

I do not know of a tool that allows anyone to look at updates requiring a dealer visit, but if you do Id love to see it.

Im talking about journalists being given the best example a manufacturer can find for testing vs what the average guy gets when he buys a car.

Im much more interested in what an actual customer has to say than a magazine thats influenced by 100 different factors.

Consumer reports reports lots of things - some are like "usability".

 

[Silverado12]

IMO Elon Musk is too big for his britches. No one man should control that much wealth. Hopefully GM and Ford hit the EV market hard and leave Tesla in the dust.

 

[alarmguy]

I do not know of a tool that allows anyone to look at updates requiring a dealer visit, but if you do Id love to see it.

Im talking about journalists being given the best example a manufacturer can find for testing vs what the average guy gets when he buys a car.

Im much more interested in what an actual customer has to say than a magazine thats influenced by 100 different factors.

Consumer reports reports lots of things - some are like "usability".

I agree that’s why consumer reports is so helpful because they report on actual surveys to their customers as far as reliability and if they’re satisfied with the vehicle. These surveys or filled out by the average guy and gal.

No other publication does that.

 

[alarmguy]

IMO Elon Musk is too big for his britches. No one man should control that much wealth. Hopefully GM and Ford hit the EV market hard and leave Tesla in the dust.

I have no problem with Elon Musk. Heck I would vote for him for president.
This is what America is about.
His wisdom, chances he took and smarts made that much wealth which is all his to do as he pleases. and being we live in a free country the government public servants cannot take it away from him.
Good for him and his success.
Everyone has equal opportunity.

 

[UncleDave]

I agree that’s why consumer reports is so helpful because they report on actual surveys to their customers as far as reliability and if they’re satisfied with the vehicle. These surveys or filled out by the average guy and gal.

No other publication does that.

Partially.

CR also rate things themselves under conditions they set up - these tests and conditions are often suspect.
I'll proffer "usability" into this subjective condition to report on.

Ask a millennial if they prefer 57 discreet controls to a screen and they'll pick the screen every time.
Ask a boomer and hell downgrade anything that isn't the same as what they grew up with.
Us GenX are somewhere in between.

Even customer surveys are highly subjective based on who replies.

 

[Job]

Completely different vehicles. The Tesla is a furturistic "point and shoot" little rocket.
The RX is a wonderful, ultimate Costco vehicle. Great mileage for what it is.

The RX is old skool uppity, the Model 3 thumbs its nose at tradition. Different in so may ways.

I am not an SUV guy; gimme a sedan or pickup. The RX is Sue's. But so are the other cars! She like her trusty TSX.
Here's my take: After driving the Tesla, with its minimalist desigh, the RX seems overly complicated, confusing. You have to take your eyes off the road and hunt to do simple things.
To adjust the heated seats on the Tesla, you push the right steering wheel button and say, "My butt is cold" or "My butt is hot."
Ditto streamed music and so much more. "Set the temp to 68."

We go from Los Gatos to Petaluma (90 miles through The City) frequently between 2 houses. The RX gets you ther comfortably, has great view of the road, not a care in the world. The small Model 3 might need a short top off charge and there is that range anxiety, even though there a plenty of places to charge. It will not be as comfortable, for sure.

If I could have only 1 car, it would be the RX over the Model 3. But that would be no fun, I guess.
These are just my opinions... Each to their own.
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I like your flag. All kinds of of nice things to look at. Neighbor has a very old panel, maybe the kind that is thought to be unsafe, Zinsco or something. What else, looks like a bottle of Tide? Change the Tesal’s oil filter yet?

 

[alarmguy]

Partially.

CR also rate things themselves under conditions they set up - these tests and conditions are often suspect.
I'll proffer "usability" into this subjective condition to report on.

Ask a millennial if they prefer 57 discreet controls to a screen and they'll pick the screen every time.
Ask a boomer and hell downgrade anything that isn't the same as what they grew up with.
Us GenX are somewhere in between.

Even customer surveys are highly subjective based on who replies.

But the question remains what are the criteria for you personally to use?
For me personally all information I can possibly get about a product I try to get Aydan analyze that information and make my decision based on what I would like.

 

[UncleDave]

But the question remains what are the criteria for you personally to use?
For me personally all information I can possibly get about a product I try to get Aydan analyze that information and make my decision based on what I would like.

Depends on the product.

Yes I try to get as much information as possible but who provides the information that really matters to me (or you)?

Example - CR doenst take long trips over the same route with each car and compare time spent at the charger.
So they provide no insight on what a day long trip would be like, over winter and summer driving, so you dont learn which cars cold gate and what their actual performance is on the road under seasonal conditions.

Somebody like Bjorn Nyland takes every EV on the same 1K trip and compares the experience.

 

[Job]

Partially.

CR also rate things themselves under conditions they set up - these tests and conditions are often suspect.
I'll proffer "usability" into this subjective condition to report on.

Ask a millennial if they prefer 57 discreet controls to a screen and they'll pick the screen every time.
Ask a boomer and hell downgrade anything that isn't the same as what they grew up with.
Us GenX are somewhere in between.

Even customer surveys are highly subjective based on who replies.

CR tests aren’t suspect. They have a great record over many decades. I have bought several things that I found were top rated over the years but also found out I didn’t like them. Still I won’t ever say their technique or ratings from consumers are suspect because I disagree.