Ford Mustang Replaces Tesla as Consumer Reports EV of the year

[JeffKeryk]

This sounds more like a ego impulse purchase decision. Not to be mean here but I still sense that ego drives a lot of EV purchases.

Excellent point. Teslas are, to a degree a toy and/or status symbol. Almost no one needs a Tesla. I have said this a million times.
Same for Lexus, BMW, MBZ, Corvette, Porsche, Bro-Dozer, you name it.

Heck, a Camry Accord Civic Corolla is plenty of car and is better in many ways than any of the above.
An Odyssey is more usable than a Lexus RX450h F Sport. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[OVERKILL]

Its also interesting that by choice they went with a third round of cylindrical vs anything else they could have done - and they coul'd have done anything they wanted.

We are starting to see teslas with significant miles on them and can be confident as purchasers that these packs degrade in very consistently an reliably on top be being some of the fastest charging out there.

As for the other types were just going to have to wait a little longer to see, but I've seen no indications that they haven't made the right call and plenty to indicate possible long term problems with prismatics and pouches..

BMW has been using prismatic in their hybrids for years, no real issues that I have heard of. Pouch cells on the other hand, have had mixed results. I don't believe Audi has had any issues with them, but we know GM and Kia both have. Sticking with what has worked is typical, that's why BMW has stuck with prismatic going forward. Other marques that started with pouch however, are looking at both prismatic and cylindrical. VW, who has focused on pouch, appears to be shifting to prismatic:
https://batteriesnews.com/samsung-sdi-manufacture-volkswagen-ev-batteries/

Also, apparently Tesla is doing prismatic for their lower priced version of the Model 3 in China, according to this article:
https://insideevs.com/news/402484/tesla-model-3-china-prismatic-battery-cells/

 

[UncleDave]

BMW has been using prismatic in their hybrids for years, no real issues that I have heard of. Pouch cells on the other hand, have had mixed results. I don't believe Audi has had any issues with them, but we know GM and Kia both have. Sticking with what has worked is typical, that's why BMW has stuck with prismatic going forward. Other marques that started with pouch however, are looking at both prismatic and cylindrical. VW, who has focused on pouch, appears to be shifting to prismatic:
https://batteriesnews.com/samsung-sdi-manufacture-volkswagen-ev-batteries/

Also, apparently Tesla is doing prismatic for their lower priced version of the Model 3 in China, according to this article:
https://insideevs.com/news/402484/tesla-model-3-china-prismatic-battery-cells/

Should be interesting to watch for sure.

The BMW's prior to this latest gen weren't really competitive in charge discharge rates.

 

[wemay]

There's a parent that pics up her twins at my son's school that drive a Mach E. Man that's a beautiful vehicle.

 

[OVERKILL]

Should be interesting to watch for sure.

The BMW's prior to this latest gen weren't really competitive in charge discharge rates.

No, amusingly, that's one of the things about the X5 PHEV, its charge rate is quite slow compared to its peers. Not sure as to the reasoning, but clearly BMW isn't doing that with the i4 and iX. I'm guessing that's a programming/design decision rather than a limit of the cell architecture.

 

[2005jettatdi]

This sounds more like a ego impulse purchase decision. Not to be mean here but I still sense that ego drives a lot of EV purchases.

Okay, you got me there. We have solar, because it made financial sense at the time, and still does. Our solar produces more power than we use, so the Mach E basically runs for free since Unisource only pays 2.5 cents per kwh for our excess each October. Still, it came down to I wanted it, I could afford it, so I bought it.

 

[UncleDave]

There's a parent that pics up her twins at my son's school that drive a Mach E. Man that's a beautiful vehicle.

agreed, I think it looks killer.

 

[alarmguy]

Yeah I have to admit I think it’s accurate to say it takes BMW model year or two in order to get things right, perfected and reliable on a competitive basis.

I’m not sure but I think most purchasers are aware of this and at the same time I think it’s indisputable the paint, fit and finish seems to be always outstanding.

At least to me I am always an awe running my hand across the surface of the paint, checking the door jams, hood alignments fit and finish of the interior and noise level.
Maybe a bit biased and brain washed as I am exposed to BMWs all the time now, also toured their largest factory in the world here in SC AND got to drive their vehicles on the BMW test track some years ago. They even put us up overnight in the local Hilton Hotel and bought dinner at Ruth Chris, breakfast and lunch.

With that said for decades I loved the look.

I think it’s at this level that reliability and satisfaction of a product part ways. If the reliability is not major issues I would think most people give a pass to minor issues in a sophisticated automobile or even motorcycle.

Technically according to consumer reports Harley Davidson and BMW motorcycles have the worst reliability issues and at the same time highest satisfaction by a mile compared to the two top most reliable motorcycles and have the worst satisfaction index.

Consumer reports went on to explain that none of the reliability issues were related to any major functions of the motorcycles and chances are being the Harley Davison and BMWs are more sophisticated they would be more main issues with electronics etc.

 

[UncleDave]

No, amusingly, that's one of the things about the X5 PHEV, its charge rate is quite slow compared to its peers. Not sure as to the reasoning, but clearly BMW isn't doing that with the i4 and iX. I'm guessing that's a programming/design decision rather than a limit of the cell architecture.

Didnt know the PHEV was a slow charger, interesting.

What I have watched are two separate vids that show the combined electruc and gas MPG over fixed length trips, and its coming in around 22-24 MPG equivalent.

Battery wise I was thinking the i3 is biggest seller and the best indicator of legacy battery performance.

 

[alarmguy]

agreed, I think it looks killer.

Yeah, I’m liking it too

 

[OVERKILL]

Didnt know the PHEV was a slow charger, interesting.

What I have watched are two separate vids that show the combined electruc and gas MPG over fixed length trips, and its coming in around 22-24 MPG equivalent.

Battery wise I was thinking the i3 is biggest seller and the best indicator of legacy battery performance.

Yes, I've posted a pile of X5 PHEV vids, because I've been considering one. The big turbo i6 isn't the most economical mill, that's for sure, but the vehicle has great full EV range for something its size.

 

[UncleDave]

Yeah, I’m liking it too

I want ford to do well.

All my personal ford products were pretty great, my kids focus trans was garbage and ford new it.

The gen 1 car from a driving perspective seems well tuned and great -

Its the BEV part and software integration part thats just not competitive from a long distance perspective - and thats really hard to get right, much less and I never expected them to, but I did expect them to beat their industry and asian competitors.

Yes, I've posted a pile of X5 PHEV vids, because I've been considering one. The big turbo i6 isn't the most economical mill, that's for sure, but the vehicle has great full EV range for something its size.

pretty sure at least one was yours.
I love the volt / PHEV concept.
Would have loved to see voltec platform grow.

 

[alarmguy]

@alarmguy since I did not read the Mach-E report, what was the reasons CR picked it? Highs and lows? I appreciate your thoughts.

As you know I quoted the results from the 2022 Annual Buying Guide a few post back in this thread and also noted I dont have the full issue with the road test.
But I do also have the 2022 Auto issue with this below;

Which also included this;

 

[ZeeOSix]

.Regarding the Mustang Mach-E, there have been recalls and issues, but I'm sure their owners will, for the most part, love them.

How many issues and recalls did Tesla have in their 1st year of production?

 

[UncleDave]

How many issues and recalls did Tesla have in their 1st year of production?

Good question - they went a long time before any.

The mach e isnt nearly as capable of OTA upgrades as the teslas are requiring far more trips back to the dealers.
The majority of teslas recall happen overnight at your house.

 

[UncleDave]

As you know I quoted the results from the 2022 Annual Buying Guide a few post back in this thread and also noted I dont have the full issue with the road test.
But I do also have the 2022 Auto issue with this below;

View attachment 96877

Which also included this;

View attachment 96878

"Usability" is completely subjective, or not, or whatever the people writing the article decide to include under that category.
Id guess tesla gets dinged for the touchscreen interface here.

 

[alarmguy]

"Usability" is completely subjective, or not, or whatever the people writing the article decide to include under that category.
Id guess tesla gets dinged for the touchscreen interface here.

Oh absolutely agree. Actually seat comfort and ride quality can be completely subjective too.
Safe to say with any write up you need to examine the vehicle for yourself and these are points to look for. Usability too, if you dont need to put packages or suit cases and only carry passangers in the vehicle then same thing.

Anyone reading the full write up knows the Mustang is the first SUV type vehicle, common sense prevails if one needs the room or not.

I know nothing about either vehicle. Except one person who owns the Mustang and loves it and another that just ordered one.
Plus what consumer reports wrote up.

 

[alarmguy]

Good question - they went a long time before any.

The mach e isnt nearly as capable of OTA upgrades as the teslas are requiring far more trips back to the dealers.
The majority of teslas recall happen overnight at your house.

This is subjective without facts and figures, recalls for physical issues can not be solved OTA.
Such as the recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models, Model S faulty hood latches that can open, last summer 6000 cars for loose brake calipers, Im not sure if the 135,000 recalls for the touch screen was OTA or not.
These are just some recalls, ignoring paint issues and standard warranty work.

Some issues solved OTA have been what sounds like a persistent issue with the boom box?
Anyway, I am not in ANY WAY disparaging Tesla but I am sticking up for another company vehicle based on common sense, lets not disparage the brand new production runs of a brand new car like Mach E which sounds like you are doing "requiring far more trips to the dealer".

 

[JeffKeryk]

This is subjective without facts and figures, recalls for physical issues can not be solved OTA.
Such as the recent Tesla 3 rear camera wiring issues on all 2017 to 2020 models, Model S faulty hood latches that can open, last summer 6000 cars for loose brake calipers, Im not sure if the 135,000 recalls for the touch screen was OTA or not.
These are just some recalls, ignoring paint issues and standard warranty work.

Some issues solved OTA have been what sounds like a persistent issue with the boom box?
Anyway, I am not in ANY WAY disparaging Tesla but I am sticking up for another company vehicle based on common sense, lets not disparage the brand new production runs of a brand new car like Mach E which sounds like you are doing "requiring far more trips to the dealer".

Our car has not been recalled.

 

[JeffKeryk]

How many issues and recalls did Tesla have in their 1st year of production?

I don't know much about the early cars, which was the Roadster, from 2008 to 2012. About 2500 were sold.
I believe there were 2 recalls, on the first 350 cars there was a problem that Lotus identified from the production line. Tesla sent technicians to customers' homes to tighten the rear, inner hub flange bolts.
Tesla issued a second product safety recall in the US affecting 439 Roadsters. The recall involved the 12V low-voltage auxiliary cable from a redundant back-up system.

I guess my point about Mach-E recalls refers to the common "big boy" comments. Ford has been making cars for over 100 years. They deliver well over 6M cars per year. Again, I am sure the Mustang Mach-E owners will love their cars. I see quite a few around here. They are great driver's cars as compared to most SUVs and are great Costco cars; they are very useful.