ford-gm-mercedes-come-clean-on-ev-demand-weakness

[GON]

My two cents from the article - Ford and GM don't have the fortitude to be significant players in EV. Ford and GM will just crank out full size trucks and ring the registers. At some point the full size truck strategy will collapse Ford and GM, but for now it is living the high life for their leadership teams.

"Top executives of Ford, General Motors and Mercedes-Benz all addressed concerns over waning demand for electric vehicles this week, as the major automakers navigate losses and price wars amid an EV push that not enough consumers are buying."


https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-gm-mercedes-come-clean-on-ev-demand-weakness

 

[Rand]

its pretty easy to see but no one had eyes open.

Giant inflation = less discretionary spending
ie when your groceries and everything else goes up 40% the money has to come from somewhere.

Actual vehicles on a run to be 50% more than they were mere years ago.
can you say 42000 jeep compass. my 2019 cherokee trailhawk was 28500.

high interest rates. That is a huge chunk on all the people who shop by "monthly payment" vs price.

Electric vehicle costs very high.. good only as second car for many.

Some have kept msrp inflation under control.. those are the bigger sellers now.

ever wonder why tons of some cars on the lot and not others? It is more than just electric vs ICE.

comparison the subaru forester
I bought a "premium with MT" for 25.5k in 2014
they no longer have a MT but are still under 30k. Include CVT, Eyesight and additional standard features.

 

[Hermann]

The Maverick I ordered was $27K, fast forward 18 months and that same build is $33,100

 

[Cujet]

As I near retirement, and rural living arrangements, the idea that I can afford, or even want, a $70,000 ($80K out the door) EV Chevy Blazer is utterly out of the question. Let's face it, for the utility it provides, coupled with severe travel/tow distance limitations, less than half that cost would be appropriate.

Since it is obviously not possible to produce such vehicles economically, I'll stick with conventional. I'm not alone here either.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My two cents from the article - Ford and GM don't have the fortitude to be significant players in EV. Ford and GM will just crank out full size trucks and ring the registers. At some point the full size truck strategy will collapse Ford and GM, but for now it is living the high life for their leadership teams.

"Top executives of Ford, General Motors and Mercedes-Benz all addressed concerns over waning demand for electric vehicles this week, as the major automakers navigate losses and price wars amid an EV push that not enough consumers are buying."


https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ford-gm-mercedes-come-clean-on-ev-demand-weakness

Ford, GM and VW have high legacy costs, and scattered aging factories. Changing over to significantly new products in widespread factories compounds the logistics costs.
The Internet has made the dealership sales model a costly process that adds little or no value. The Internet will continue to disrupt business as we know it.

Pickups have been legacy car company's bread and butter and will continue to be. Until things change, I just don't see the market for a filthy expensive F-150 Lightning. Ford and GM's leadership are telling us they misread the market. Ford's EV business unit is losing billions each quarter and are now in a declining sales trend. GM is in the same boat.

Interest rates put pressure on sales price; more so on expensive purchases. Losses increase as prices decrease, all else being equal.

I am not sure about the fortitude issue; I think it is the products and the ability to execute. Make a $40K electric drivetrain PU and see what happens. My money is on that upcoming Electric Tacoma. Toyota has been punished for its slow EV transition, but that is about to change.

 

[oil pan 4]

All the ev simps (who don't drive an electric vehicle) are like "there's no ev market saturation".

 

[97prizm]

All the ev simps (who don't drive an electric vehicle) are like "there's no ev market saturation".

This. I told people five years ago that ev adoption will hit a brick wall after all the "greenies" buy one. Even Tesla is seeing softening demand, although a few people on here claim Tesla is still "crushing it ".

 

[GON]

This. I told people five years ago that ev adoption will hit a brick wall after all the "greenies" buy one. Even Tesla is seeing softening demand, although a few people on here claim Tesla is still "crushing it ".

I think GM and Ford essentiallly surrendering on the EV market will bode very well for TSLA. Ev are not going away, and potential us competition is quietly shying away.

 

[wemay]

Insert affordable, simple, Chinese EV's. They're already laying the foundation in Europe. It won't be long until they reach our shores.

 

[97prizm]

I think GM and Ford essentiallly surrendering on the EV market will bode very well for TSLA. Ev are not going away, and potential us competition is quietly shying away.

They won't surrender per say but Tesla would have been bankrupt without the multiple billions in offset credits. Musk is really ticking off many buyers. The number of people who would repeat buy another Tesla is dropping off considerably in the last few years.

 

[GON]

I am not sure about the fortitude issue; I think it is the products and the ability to execute. Make a $40K electric drivetrain PU and see what happens. My money is on that upcoming Electric Tacoma. Toyota has been punished for its slow EV transition, but that is about to change.

That is fortitude. Doing everything and anything it takes to be the best ev vehicle manufacturer in the world.

I don't see ford's Farley or GM's bearra living in the EV factory for five years, day and night, to get it done..I can see TSLA's musk living in the factory indefinitely to accomplish the mission. That is the difference, plain and simple.

When Farley and Barra signed their CEO contracts,I am sure their compensation package meant they could get fired in a month and get a separation package for eight figures.

If Ford and GM CEO got total compensation of 750k a year, with stock options that can be executed in 25 years, I would give gm and Ford a chance for a long term future. Their compensation and zero risk to their pockets is counterproductive for a long term strategy.

In comparison- look at Toyota mission and vision statement.

Through our commitment to quality, ceaseless innovation, and respect for the planet, we strive to exceed expectations and be rewarded with a smile.

 

[97prizm]

Insert affordable, simple, Chinese EV's. They're already laying the foundation in Europe. It won't be long until they reach our shores.

It's odd that this keeps coming up. About ten to twelve years ago Geely, BYD, and Cherry automotive had purchased or were in the talks of opening numerous dealerships in the USA. We shall see if this happens with ev's. I'm curious on how Vinfast will fare in the USA.

 

[Passport1]

EVs are a niche market. When their raison d'être is revealed as a fraud, and it has been, demand will stall. Agree with GON they aren't going away but even with government 'nudging' ICE won't face extinction. Only so many virtues can be signaled before reality sneaks in and everybody notices.

 

[GON]

EVs are a niche market. When their raison d'être is revealed as a fraud, and it has been, demand will stall. Agree with GON they aren't going away but even with government 'nudging' ICE won't face extinction. Only so many virtues can be signaled before reality sneaks in and everybody notices.

EVs have a massive lobby, very likely all the lobbyist are funded through private equities in California. Ev are not going away for this reason. Ev generate huge monies for California economy, and these monies are drawn from all 50 states. I won't go any deeper with this as it will violate BITOG agreement.

 

[E365]

Even Tesla is slowing down. The plans for a new Mexico plant and its $25,000 vehicle have slowed to a crawl now.

In the Q3 2023 earnings call the CFO( I think it was) even hinted at the option of bagging the whole Mexico thing and trying to make those cars in Austin on unused land at Giga Texas

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...eports-lower-third-quarter-margin-2023-10-18/

 

[Dave Hess]

I’ve said this before 20 times.

Tesla has the X Factor….. all other EV companies make boring vehicles.

 

[OVERKILL]

I’ve said this before 20 times.

Tesla has the X Factor….. all other companies and boring.

Which is wild, because the interiors feel like somebody was given a collection of 1980's J-body materials and told to put together a minimalist interior with them.

 

[E365]

I think GM and Ford essentiallly surrendering on the EV market will bode very well for TSLA. Ev are not going away, and potential us competition is quietly shying away.

I feel like there’s a big difference between GM and Ford’s EV programs/plans though. Ford’s first battery plant and first ground-up EV platform is still around 2 years away. They have less invested already and can probably slow down to save money.

GM has two ground-up EV platforms on the streets right now. The 3rd is introduced soon (BEV-Prime). Plus their first battery plant is running at 75% capacity and will be at full capacity in about 30 days. The 2nd battery plant will be making batteries in about 90 days. The 3rd battery plant is nearing completion for later 2024 battery production. Feels like they have no choice but to keep pushing forward with most plans.

 

[Trav]

I cant see tesla surviving another decade, the cars are only a few models, ugly as sin itself, poor build quality, poor fit and finish, cheap interior materials and over priced. Other companies will exceed them and the tesla house of cards will fall down faster than it was built.
JM2C

 

[bullwinkle]

I cant see tesla surviving another decade, the cars are only a few models, ugly as sin itself, poor build quality, poor fit and finish, cheap interior materials and over priced. Other companies will exceed them and the tesla house of cards will fall down faster than it was built.
JM2C

Inability to independently service, or get replacement parts (for non-dealer service centers), & expensive battery replacements will doom Tesla resale-eventually people will realize they’re essentially a $60-100K disposable “toy” 2nd car, and sales will drastically fall.