ford-gm-mercedes-come-clean-on-ev-demand-weakness

How so? He makes good points!
The best point to take from that is to just not spend $60k-$100k on a car, which I've never done yet I get accused of being a rich yuppy EV buyer. I don't get it. Depreciation sucks on anything at that price, but yes an EV might be slightly worse for depreciation while being exponentially cheaper to operate. Just have to decide if the tradeoffs are worth it to you. There's no doubt what your choice is so you don't need to tell me. 😂
 
I’ve said this before 20 times.

Tesla has the X Factor….. all other EV companies make boring vehicles.
It has the badge that garners attention from a certain crowd. That’s what draws buyers.

The real world product leaves much to be desired. “Boring” has nothing to do with it.
 
It has the badge that garners attention from a certain crowd. That’s what draws buyers.

The real world product leaves much to be desired. “Boring” has nothing to do with it.
Buyers know what they like and they’ll pay for it. Tesla is a known quantity and I know what I get when I buy one. That may be a positive to me and a negative to you, but it does sell cars to those that see it as a positive and I definitely don’t like everything they do.
 
It has the badge that garners attention from a certain crowd. That’s what draws buyers.

The real world product leaves much to be desired. “Boring” has nothing to do with it.
I've had the real world product for over 5 years and have grown to appreciate it. I am likely buying another this year.
Tesla has a very high rate of repeat customers.
 
I've had the real world product for over 5 years and have grown to appreciate it. I am likely buying another this year.
Tesla has a very high rate of repeat customers.
No offence but in those 5 years you only put 19K on the car and you live and charge in ideal conditions which you mention ad nauseam. Whatever the reason it was not being driven much is irrelevant, the point is 19K is not enough to really give any car a recommendation one way or another.
 
I’ve said this before 20 times.

Tesla has the X Factor….. all other EV companies make boring vehicles.
If so they wouldnt be losing mark share, slashing prices and profit margins and have the most dismal 2024 outlook form the CEO
Lucky the legacy makers can fall back on gasoline, now that we are learning EVs might fall flat on the projected sales outlooks.
 
No offence but in those 5 years you only put 19K on the car and you live and charge in ideal conditions which you mention ad nauseam. Whatever the reason it was not being driven much is irrelevant, the point is 19K is not enough to really give any car a recommendation one way or another.
To be fair it's more experience than you have with an EV, but for sure it's not heavy usage. With current usage I'd only have about 30k in the same time how it's currently used.
 
No offence but in those 5 years you only put 19K on the car and you live and charge in ideal conditions which you mention ad nauseam. Whatever the reason it was not being driven much is irrelevant, the point is 19K is not enough to really give any car a recommendation one way or another.
Let's look at what's behind those numbers...
2 drivers. Lotsa cars. COVID shutdown at wifey's work. She like's the TSX because of work parking lot door dings. I am retired and everything I need is within 15 miles max. I would rather fly than drive. The 1st year we had the car I did not drive it because I was recovering from surgery; the only car I drove was my truck. Do the math.
I have a lot less mileage on our RX. I would guess I have driven the Model 3 more than the other cars in the last year, probably more. That's the key reason I have come to appreciate the Model 3, warts and all.

By the way the reason I mention my conditions is so people understand not everyone will benefit from an EV as much as my use case affords; for example most people pay more for electricity than I do. I try for transparency because everyone's use case is different.
 
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If so they wouldnt be losing mark share, slashing prices and profit margins and have the most dismal 2024 outlook form the CEO
Lucky the legacy makers can fall back on gasoline, now that we are learning EVs might fall flat on the projected sales outlooks.
Margins went up in Q4. More companies are releasing EVs, of course market share will decrease. The best indicator of sales is, the Model Y was the #1 selling vehicle in the world, of any kind. It is usually the Corolla, which costs much less and generates a far smaller margin.
 
Margins went up in Q4. More companies are releasing EVs, of course market share will decrease. The best indicator of sales is, the Model Y was the #1 selling vehicle in the world, of any kind. It is usually the Corolla, which costs much less and generates a far smaller margin.
Markets are said to be forward looking, so how this plays out should be very interesting. If stock prices and a forward looking market mean anything, TSLA might be headed lower due to losing market share. Time will tell.
 
Markets are said to be forward looking, so how this plays out should be very interesting. If stock prices and a forward looking market mean anything, TSLA might be headed lower due to losing market share. Time will tell.
Sure, my crystal ball is just as cloudy as everyone else's. TSLA is a roller coaster no doubt. I am holding mine...
The Model 2's success or lack of will be pretty important.
 
So why is Tesla and other major manufacturers buying them from BYD? Sorry your explanation doesnt seem to be based on facts just your own opinions. Tesla is well known for its poor build quality, poor fit and finish without driving it 60K.
My father owned a Chinese EV, you cannot comprehend what poor quality means, there is no floor there or comparison within modern US spec vehicles.

And as I also stated the Chinese can build adequate to a spec under pain of death, quite literally. Just because they can build a decent battery when they are quite literally under the watchful eye of an embedded representative of the other company in their factory, does not mean a whole car from them will meet foreign expectations. (True story, a requirement to have a factory in China is to go to extreme measures to ensure quality and accountability because the Chinese take Athiesm and capitalism to strange new unbelievable places)


So why do foreign companies use a Chinese battery?
Same reason hobbiest buy Chinese lifepo4

Cheap,

no cobalt or precious minerals (good PR),

non flammable & cold tolerant (cheaper battery conditioning system, battery heating/cooling systems are up to half battery cost)

Infrastructure, nobody has Lifepo4 infrastructure as it is a very young battery technology.


As to your apparent belief that all blade batteries are the same I see no evidence of that.
I would love for blade batteries to be the new AA , that can be transferred from any brand EV to another but it appears (based on commentary in a Chinese car forum, that blade batteries are still application specific and can be customized for each manufacturer to different specs.)

Would like to be proven wrong but I doubt we are entering a new panacea of reliable interchangeable parts, I also remain sceptacle of Lifepo4 having the same durability because it simply hasn’t had the life on the market to do 30 year durability testing, some of the antique obsolete chemistries can be made and have been tested for extra-odinary long lifespans for aerospace, lifrpo4 hasn’t

Worth noting, while Lifepo4 is slated for use by many manufacturers only 2 actually are in current production and only represent a small percentage of their production.

Sodium batteries have the same packaged density as Lifepo4 and are much more tolerant to overcharging, over discharging and below zero climates. They are already in overseas EVs, I can buy them as an hobbyist and these will likely overshadow lifepo4 as the low cost option.

Sadly I’m a realist, batteries need to be in use many decades before they are perfected, any chemistry that hasnt been in use more than 20 years (lifepo4/sodium) and has never seen aerospace duty is very likely to have unforeseen teething pains.

Oddly most of the teslas towed during the Chicago blizzard had Lifepo4 batteries, possibly sntidotal but the folks who own them Have been posting live streams of much greater winter range loss than they had in previous gen model 3’s
 
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You know we are commenting on the OP post from Oct 2023
Let’s add to the story that last month Tesla came clean on weakness in the EV market and thinks the entire year is looking dismal.
They have had to drastically cut prices and profit margins to keep moving cars out the door and still no new models of any significance.
They really are in a tough spot not having vehicles with the ICE all while EVs from all companies And countries fight for and steal market share from Testa
The EV share of the pie is much more limited compared to ICE
 
Larger The eventual full scale shift of EV will likely be rebranded Chinese EV cars with associated major brands outside of Tesla.

US ICE makers have proven they cannot make reasonable EVs and should stick to profits(trucks annd maybe hybrids) and rebranding and co engineering EVs.
 
...

US ICE makers have proven they cannot make reasonable EVs and should stick to profits(trucks annd maybe hybrids) and rebranding and co engineering EVs.
They only just begun ... and Tesla market share slashed by more than 20% just in just two years. Now down to 50% of EV sales in the USA. BYD already pushed Tesla to second place in places overseas and they are just getting started too.
It also fell flat on its face (and that is putting it mildly) in its 50% growth rate goal.

Just two years ago = "Speaking at the annual shareholder meeting, Elon Musk mentioned the company’s future production plans, saying that by the end of 2022, Tesla might reach an annual production run rate of 2 million vehicles"
They didnt hit that in 2022 and in 2023 failed miserably with only 1.3 million vehicles and were forced to slash prices and profit margins to hit that.

Im not sure who US EV makers have proven anything to anyone other than they build cars and turn a profit. Meanwhile Tesla is falling to hit stated goals.

It's all good, not defending or bashing, just posting facts. The only failure I see is American acceptance to what the agenda wanted them to accept. We are a huge country, not a postage stamp size EU country where an EV might make sense (and people have less disposable income) EV's are never going to be accepted like they are overseas in their present form.
 
They only just begun ... and Tesla market share slashed by more than 20% just in just two years. Now down to 50% of EV sales in the USA. BYD already pushed Tesla to second place in places overseas and they are just getting started too.
It also fell flat on its face (and that is putting it mildly) in its 50% growth rate goal.

Just two years ago = "Speaking at the annual shareholder meeting, Elon Musk mentioned the company’s future production plans, saying that by the end of 2022, Tesla might reach an annual production run rate of 2 million vehicles"
They didnt hit that in 2022 and in 2023 failed miserably with only 1.3 million vehicles and were forced to slash prices and profit margins to hit that.

Im not sure who US EV makers have proven anything to anyone other than they build cars and turn a profit. Meanwhile Tesla is falling to hit stated goals.

It's all good, not defending or bashing, just posting facts. The only failure I see is American acceptance to what the agenda wanted them to accept. We are a huge country, not a postage stamp size EU country where an EV might make sense (and people have less disposable income) EV's are never going to be accepted like they are overseas in their present form.
AG, not sure where you are getting your numbers. Tesla delivered over 1.8M cars in 2023 and margins increased in Q4 over Q3.
Other car companies would kill for Tesla margins; that's Porsche territory. Everyone else loses big money on their EV business.
More companies have entered the EV market, but Tesla still sells more in the US than all the others combined.
The Model Y was the #1 selling car in the world.

Please post your sources.
 
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I don't have an EV...BUT
It is impossible to match the performance of an EV with a pure ICE dollar for dollar. I can see the appeal of them, gullible people believe there is no down side to an EV as you get excellent performance while saving the plant and you get to virtue signal as a bonus.

I may own one after I retire in 5 years, it would fit our lifestyle then. Less maintenance would be appealing as I get older, longest trips are to the Doctors and I can charge it while it sleeps in its stable at home.
 
My father owned a Chinese EV, you cannot comprehend what poor quality means, there is no floor there or comparison within modern US spec vehicles.

And as I also stated the Chinese can build adequate to a spec under pain of death, quite literally. Just because they can build a decent battery when they are quite literally under the watchful eye of an embedded representative of the other company in their factory, does not mean a whole car from them will meet foreign expectations. (True story, a requirement to have a factory in China is to go to extreme measures to ensure quality and accountability because the Chinese take Athiesm and capitalism to strange new unbelievable places)


So why do foreign companies use a Chinese battery?
Same reason hobbiest buy Chinese lifepo4

Cheap,

no cobalt or precious minerals (good PR),

non flammable & cold tolerant (cheaper battery conditioning system, battery heating/cooling systems are up to half battery cost)

Infrastructure, nobody has Lifepo4 infrastructure as it is a very young battery technology.


As to your apparent belief that all blade batteries are the same I see no evidence of that.
I would love for blade batteries to be the new AA , that can be transferred from any brand EV to another but it appears (based on commentary in a Chinese car forum, that blade batteries are still application specific and can be customized for each manufacturer to different specs.)

Would like to be proven wrong but I doubt we are entering a new panacea of reliable interchangeable parts, I also remain sceptacle of Lifepo4 having the same durability because it simply hasn’t had the life on the market to do 30 year durability testing, some of the antique obsolete chemistries can be made and have been tested for extra-odinary long lifespans for aerospace, lifrpo4 hasn’t

Worth noting, while Lifepo4 is slated for use by many manufacturers only 2 actually are in current production and only represent a small percentage of their production.

Sodium batteries have the same packaged density as Lifepo4 and are much more tolerant to overcharging, over discharging and below zero climates. They are already in overseas EVs, I can buy them as an hobbyist and these will likely overshadow lifepo4 as the low cost option.

Sadly I’m a realist, batteries need to be in use many decades before they are perfected, any chemistry that hasnt been in use more than 20 years (lifepo4/sodium) and has never seen aerospace duty is very likely to have unforeseen teething pains.

Oddly most of the teslas towed during the Chicago blizzard had Lifepo4 batteries, possibly sntidotal but the folks who own them Have been posting live streams of much greater winter range loss than they had in previous gen model 3’s
What Chinese ev did your father own? By all accounts the BYD seems to be even higher quality than the Tesla which also has some Chinese made parts in it even the ones "Made in USA". Please, you are entitled to your opinion but don't peddle it as facts.
You take on Chinese manufacturing is right out of the anti Chinese playbook, in reality it is far different. I am no fan of Chinese goods but they do make some quality product with someone holding a gun to their head. How many people buy Milwaukee tools, Iphones, laptops and PC's all with good USA names without a second thought to where they are made or who actually owns them.

This part is on a made in USA Tesla 3..

Tesla 3 LCA.webp
 
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