Forbes- Worst-Made Cars on the Road

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Originally Posted By: CaspianM
I doubt Forbe would have the capability to rate cars based on technical/reliability merit. I have no idea what they are aimed at.


Certainly Jerry Flint, their regular automotive writer is clueless.

A year ago, the did have some good articles on plug in hybrids. They pointed out, the watts from your home outlet cost less than the watts where the gasoline engine generates them.
 
Originally Posted By: USA1
Two things:

If I go to Google, and type in "worst made cars on the road" guess which link comes up as the first one? Please, if you're going to bash domestics, at least do a little more work and not come across as a lazy misfit.

Secondly, here's the link to her bio on Forbes: http://blogs.forbes.com/booked/author/helliot/ She looks to be all of about 15 years old, and her opinion oh so does not matter to me. Maybe her opinion on the latest Hanna Montana movie, but not autos.

BTW, little girl's email address: helliot_at_forbes.com

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common on usa1, leave the poor girl alone.
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I think the "cash for clunkers" told us all we need to know- most clunkers traded were produced by the big 3......and toyota was the number one brand people CHOSE to replace them with, along with alot of Hondas and Nissans


That says ALOT.
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
I think the "cash for clunkers" told us all we need to know- most clunkers traded were produced by the big 3......and toyota was the number one brand people CHOSE to replace them with, along with alot of Hondas and Nissans


That says ALOT.


It told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles were of domestic origin.

Now of course one could draw all sorts of wild and wonderful conclusions and depart on various tangents which impart all sorts of implications like you seem to be doing..... But then that was really the whole point of your post.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: qship1996
I think the "cash for clunkers" told us all we need to know- most clunkers traded were produced by the big 3......and toyota was the number one brand people CHOSE to replace them with, along with alot of Hondas and Nissans


That says ALOT.


It told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles were of domestic origin.
. . .


Well, it appears to me that it told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles, that vast numbers of owners deemed unworthy of keeping, were of domestic origin. . .
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: qship1996
I think the "cash for clunkers" told us all we need to know- most clunkers traded were produced by the big 3......and toyota was the number one brand people CHOSE to replace them with, along with alot of Hondas and Nissans


That says ALOT.


It told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles were of domestic origin.
. . .


Well, it appears to me that it told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles, that vast numbers of owners deemed unworthy of keeping, were of domestic origin. . .


And of course coming from a guy with three Toyota's in his signature to a guy with three Ford's in his signature, two of which are over 20 years old... You could understand why I feel your post MIGHT be a touch biased.....
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: qship1996
I think the "cash for clunkers" told us all we need to know- most clunkers traded were produced by the big 3......and toyota was the number one brand people CHOSE to replace them with, along with alot of Hondas and Nissans


That says ALOT.


It told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles were of domestic origin.
. . .


Well, it appears to me that it told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles, that vast numbers of owners deemed unworthy of keeping, were of domestic origin. . .


And of course coming from a guy with three Toyota's in his signature to a guy with three Ford's in his signature, two of which are over 20 years old... You could understand why I feel your post MIGHT be a touch biased.....


I generally put 300K miles or more on my 4.6 Panthers [with just regular maintenance] so I feel that the post from ekpolk [with all due respect] is a lot more then a touch biased.
 
Could never have to do with the big 3 having built more of the larger cars in the past that many people wanted? Small, high millage cars weren't eligible.
 
The points are valid about what was traded in. It's likely more D3 cars qualified for C4C.

However, how does one explain what was purchased? Toyota was the big winner there, IIRC.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

And of course coming from a guy with three Toyota's in his signature to a guy with three Ford's in his signature, two of which are over 20 years old... You could understand why I feel your post MIGHT be a touch biased.....


I suspect that if any 1997 model Toyota had been put through the abuse my Crown Vic got at the hands of the police and the taxi drivers, it would have died long before C4C ever happened.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk


Well, it appears to me that it told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles, that vast numbers of owners deemed unworthy of keeping, were of domestic origin. . .




Hmmmmm.....could this be more of that famous BITOG bias....and from a moderator no less....tsk tsk.

I dont suppose that your transplant bias allowed for the fact that the domestics had far more cars that qualified for the program. Instead of making guesses based on your own personal bias maybe actually look into the numbers????


Of the 690,114 cars traded in under the program, 450,778 of them were SUV's and light trucks. Gee, I wonder, who was it that built and sold the most SUV's and light trucks that were eligible?
Top ten cars traded under the program....
Ford Explorer 4WD
Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
Jeep Cherokee 4WD
Ford Explorer 2WD
Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan
Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
Ford F-150 Pickup 4WD
Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
Ford Windstar

Maybe if Toyota or Honda built a decent pick up that lasted twenty years they would have more on that list. As it is, a LOT of Americans own beater trucks that when offered $4,500 for one of them, they jumped at the offer.

Just the facts, no hunches, no geusswork based on my personal bias. Is this the best this board can do for moderators? I'm beginning to understand why Domestic bashing thrives around here yet Toyotas woes are considered "old news".

If you want to discuss, CFC, then lets discuss how the American CFC was open to foreign manufacturers, while the Japanese program was a closed one only eligible to domestic brands. Just another fine example of how our government allows free trade and the Japanese rig their game to favor the home team.
 
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Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: ekpolk


Well, it appears to me that it told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles, that vast numbers of owners deemed unworthy of keeping, were of domestic origin. . .




Hmmmmm.....could this be more of that famous BITOG bias....and from a moderator no less....tsk tsk.

I dont suppose that your transplant bias allowed for the fact that the domestics had far more cars that qualified for the program. Instead of making guesses based on your own personal bias maybe actually look into the numbers????


Of the 690,114 cars traded in under the program, 450,778 of them were SUV's and light trucks. Gee, I wonder, who was it that built and sold the most SUV's and light trucks that were eligible?

Just the facts, no hunches, no geusswork based on my personal bias. Is this the best this board can do for moderators? I'm beginning to understand why Domestic bashing thrives around here yet Toyotas woes are considered "old news".

If you want to discuss, CFC, then lets discuss how the American CFC was open to foreign manufacturers, while the Japanese program was a closed one only eligible to domestic brands. Just another fine example of how our government allows free trade and the Japanese rig their game to favor the home team.


I agree on all counts with you. CFC, IMO, should have been limited to domestic brands, give japan a taste of what they've been dishing out. They have HUGE tarriffs on American cars there, so that we cannot compete in their market. Also, so many people seem to kinda overlook that Honda, Nissan, Toyota took bailouts from the Japanese government too. But they don't care because it wasn't THEIR taxpayer money, it was JAPANs. These are also the same people, by the way, that say that Honda, toyota, etc are just as American as Ford, GM. Hmm...
 
Careful there, rudolphna, when I suggested giving our foreign trading "partners" a taste of what their markets do to us, it didn't go over well on this board.....and I'm still wondering if Japan ever lifted the ban on rice imports from America (the foodstuff, not the ridiculously modded vehicle...
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Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: ekpolk


Well, it appears to me that it told us that the highest percentage of older vehicles, that vast numbers of owners deemed unworthy of keeping, were of domestic origin. . .




Hmmmmm.....could this be more of that famous BITOG bias....and from a moderator no less....tsk tsk.

I dont suppose that your transplant bias allowed for the fact that the domestics had far more cars that qualified for the program. Instead of making guesses based on your own personal bias maybe actually look into the numbers????


Of the 690,114 cars traded in under the program, 450,778 of them were SUV's and light trucks. Gee, I wonder, who was it that built and sold the most SUV's and light trucks that were eligible?
Top ten cars traded under the program....
Ford Explorer 4WD
Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
Jeep Cherokee 4WD
Ford Explorer 2WD
Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan
Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
Ford F-150 Pickup 4WD
Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
Ford Windstar

Maybe if Toyota or Honda built a decent pick up that lasted twenty years they would have more on that list. As it is, a LOT of Americans own beater trucks that when offered $4,500 for one of them, they jumped at the offer.

Just the facts, no hunches, no geusswork based on my personal bias. Is this the best this board can do for moderators? I'm beginning to understand why Domestic bashing thrives around here yet Toyotas woes are considered "old news".

If you want to discuss, CFC, then lets discuss how the American CFC was open to foreign manufacturers, while the Japanese program was a closed one only eligible to domestic brands. Just another fine example of how our government allows free trade and the Japanese rig their game to favor the home team.



BRAVO!
 
bottom line is they traded their old domestic vehicles for Japanese vehicles......smart, very smart. Obviously these people once believed enough in domestic vehicles to purchase one, and obviously they had unfavorable ownership experiences and purchased vehicles produced by mostly toyota and the other non domestic nameplates.....simple fact that the numbers prove.......in with a domestic, out of the showroom with a non-domestic.......and the dumb domestic companies just scratch their head wondering why?
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Obviously these people once believed enough in domestic vehicles to purchase one, and obviously they had unfavorable ownership experiences and purchased vehicles produced by mostly toyota and the other non domestic nameplates.......and the dumb domestic companies just scratch their head wondering why?



Really.....Hmmmmm....could it be more baseless speculation from the Toyota fanboy peanut gallery?

For one example the Windstar I traded in for $4,500 was a complete junker that had served my family for 17 years and over 250,000 miles of very dependable service. Do you suppose in your Assumption that they "obviously had unfavorable ownership experiences", that many of those pick ups that were traded in were equally well worn old beaters that brought five-ten times what they were worth. Dont get hung up by reading a list of nice cars that were trashed, the vast majority of them were junk. If they had let me do two deals they could have had another family Windstar that is near 200,000 miles.

But hey, thats just anecdotal evidence, meaningless on the larger front....So lets go to the numbers shall we. Lets dispense with trivial guesses and assumptions on your part. Lets not assume that the Foreign makes sold outside their typical market share.....lets actually look?

Toyota 19.4%
General Motors 17.6%
Ford 14.4%
Honda 13.0%
Nissan 8.7%
Hyundai 7.2%
Chrysler 6.6%
Kia 4.3%
Subaru 2.5%
Mazda 2.4%
Volkswagen 2.0%
Suzuki 0.6%
Mitsubishi 0.5%
MINI 0.4%
Smart 0.2%
Volvo 0.1%
All Other

Gee, imagine that, even though the foreign makes had more cars that qualified for the credit. The domestics and pretty much everyone else followed their market share almost to the letter. Amazing what amount of light can be shed on a topic when you examine the facts rather than partake in Assumptions and feeding your own bias.
 
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38.6.......thats the TOTAL percentage share of vehicles purchased that were produced by the big sloppy 3 nameplates


61.4 thats the percentage who didnt make the same mistake twice, and purchased a vehicle NOT PRODUCED by the sloppy shoddy big 3 domestic nameplates

Thanks for helping to prove my point.
 
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