For those that advocate 10K miles OCI

[Samuraidog]

You can find a situation that supports almost any position. BFD. It always seems to come down to what an individual believes will work well for them.

I've not seen (at least I cannot recall) anyone being swayed from their position regarding OCIs by any arguments contrary to their position and belief made in any of these threads.

Has anyone changed their position on OCIs for their situation by what they've read here?

I have to admit that I have been swayed in the past (and again more recently).
I used to be the 5k OCI type, but then several years ago, I started reading about longer OCI on BITOG. I decided to experiment with longer OCI (10k or even 12k) with full syn, even trying Amsoil. More recently, I noticed some varnish at the oil fill hole and the car consuming about 1 quart every several thousand miles on my 2009 Prius. I recently discovered that these cars are notorious for sludge buildup in the piston oil control rings. After watching videos like The Care Care Nut and Ford Boss Me, I decided to go back to 5k OCI.
Not sure if the damage is already done, or whether it will help reverting back to 5k OCI. Quite honestly, one quart every several thousand miles isn't too bad, but I prefer zero oil consumption even though that may not be realistic given the 183k miles on my Prius. I don't even know whether the oil consumption issue would have happened regardless of my OCI, but I figured that going back to shorter OCI couldn't hurt at this point.

 

[UG_Passat]

Posts like this are a good data point, since not too many on this site run OCI's this long. It shows that under the right conditions extended OCI's can be done successfully. Also shows that for many of us the OCI we are using is very conservative.

Unlike Toyota, BMW has specific manufacturer approvals for oils, that it must pass for certification.

Toyota, uses commercial standards, like the ILSAC GF's and API S-#, so there is no specific test requirements unique to Toyota. For example, Toyota doesn't develop its own performance standards for motor oil based using the Exxon-Mobil produced TGMO oils as a benchmark.

But also common for Germans, is a wider range of acceptable oil usage levels... about 1 quart every 800 miles is acceptable, where we tend to deem that as excessive, as our typical limit if 1 quart per 1000 miles.

 

[Samuraidog]

My bmw made it to 241k miles with 15k manufacturer service intervals and is still going strong . Always driven hard, 90/100 mph daily commute for 50 miles.

At 241k it now had 15 oil changes. If it would be done at 5k intervals it would be 49 times.
15 x 6,5 qt = 97.5 qt oil used
49 x 6,5 qt = 318,4 qt oil used

Do what ever you want but yes i think changing oil extremely early is a waste of natural resources.

Engines that are known to be **** fail even with short oci's, engines that are known to be reliable have no problems with normal intervals.

Would only advise to do short oci's on cars that are driven only really short distances.

Screen name checks out.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Screen name checks out.

Jup, i believe this is one of the reasons why my engine is in such good health and clean inside.
I used to have a company which recyled cars and sold on the engines/parts etc..
The ****tiest/dirtiest looking engines i saw where those from low milage city cars. The best looking/running engines where useally the higher milage cars.

The lowest milage car i ever scrapped had about 50k miles on it in 15 years. While i thought this extremely low milage engine would fetch good money it was totaly gunked inside and camshaft bearing ledges where totaly worn out with deep scratches. I have scrapped the engine.

Customers wanted to pay more for the low mileage engines because they are led to believe that those are better.
For me its a now brainer to chose a high milage highway only engine over a low milage city engine. Also the low milage cars where useally **** in general, loads of small dents allround, interior worn etc..

 

[tolian21]

My bmw made it to 241k miles with 15k manufacturer service intervals and is still going strong

Was it a GDI engine?

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Was it a GDI engine?

No port injected N52B25 engine.

 

[tolian21]

No port injected N52B25 engine.

This thread is about toyota recommending 10k OCI, with focus on modern GDI engine.

 

[UG_Passat]

This thread is about toyota recommending 10k OCI, with focus on modern GDI engine.

However the supporting video was on a 2016 Camry, which has port-injected engines, not GDI.

 

[javacontour]

This thread is about toyota recommending 10k OCI, with focus on modern GDI engine.

Don't Toyota GDI engines also have port injection? Or at least some of them? I believe this was a feature the CCN mentioned going over the new Corolla Cross or similar vehicle.

So you get the benefits of both systems. Each is used when they are the best choice for operating conditions / driver demand.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

This thread is about toyota recommending 10k OCI, with focus on modern GDI engine.

Also with GDI engines its the same case, slow drivers who think they are saving money and their engine from wear are actually doing more harm.
Modern engine oils run pretty hot at around 100 degrees. This is to vapourize the fuel dilution out of the oil. Slow drivers and lots of short distance driving is causing these problems, especially in cold climates.

Manufacturers tested their engines probably for 1000s of hours on the dyno without problems. What they did not test was stop/starting the engine while not getting up to temp all the time. This is killing for every engine, even the best port injected one.

With normal conditions where the oil (not only the coolant)gets up to full operating temp for example every week for at least half an hour the manufacturer OCI's should not be a problem.

My uncle has the same problem with a 2019 mercedes/renault 1.4 GDI engine. He always drives slow (no more then 50 60mph no hard accelaration/never above 3000rpm short 11 mile commute) thinking he saves the engine from wear. When looking into his oil filler cap its one yellow sludge factory inside.

 

[tolian21]

Don't Toyota GDI engines also have port injection? Or at least some of them?

Yes, their is a hybrid of two, thats my understanding.

 

[UG_Passat]

Don't Toyota GDI engines also have port injection? Or at least some of them? I believe this was a feature the CCN mentioned going over the new Corolla Cross or similar vehicle.

So you get the benefits of both systems. Each is used when they are the best choice for operating conditions / driver demand.

Since 2019, yes. They got Toyota's D4-S system which was first put on certain lexus engines starting in 2006.

It's only direct injection on high load, and combo of both on low and medium load demands.

 

[UG_Passat]

Also with GDI engines its the same case, slow drivers who think they are saving money and their engine from wear are actually doing more harm.
Modern engine oils run pretty hot at around 100 degrees. This is to vapourize the fuel dilution out of the oil. Slow drivers and lots of short distance driving is causing these problems, especially in cold climates.

Manufacturers tested their engines probably for 1000s of hours on the dyno without problems. What they did not test was stop/starting the engine while not getting up to temp all the time. This is killing for every engine, even the best port injected one.

Certain GDI's have been more prone to fuel dilution though... like the EA113 Audi/VW engines, and the Honda 1.5T engines.

 

[K.Aoi]

Again?

 

[Kjmack]

Certain GDI's have been more prone to fuel dilution though... like the EA113 Audi/VW engines, and the Honda 1.5T engines.

I never smell any fuel or raising oil levels in my 2 Ea engines . And smooth as silk running also . 2015 and 2017

 

[UG_Passat]

I never smell any fuel or raising oil levels in my 2 Ea engines . And smooth as silk running also . 2015 and 2017

Those are not EA113 engines.

you have 3rd generation EA888

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Yes (certain) GDI's are more prone to this just because of how direct injection works. As i said oil CAN NOT do its job if its not at operating temp for at least a long period every once a while. I think under the circumstances the ''small'' amount of affected cars are in is something overlooked by the manufacturers or taken for granted.

Also contributing is that in order to increase oil warm up time and decrease service costs oil capicaties are getting smaller and smaller. Some are only 3qt. This is diluted much faster in comparison to a large capicaty.

6 cyl inline truck engines with 55k mile ocis useally have around 40 qts of oil. Offcourse diesel engines are not comparable. Also trucks useally drive atleast 5 7 hours+ every time they are started.

 

[tolian21]

This thread will be going around in circles. Someone will always throw “I had cars for 20 years with 15k OCI without issues”.

 

[EA82]

I take this video as nothing more than a heads up from a toyota master technician, basically he has seen a pattern of extended OCIs mostly on 2.4l and 2.5l camrys with bad rings and cylinder walls, as someone who wants to keep cars for a long time I listen to an expert like him. Whether toyotas piston rings are garbage or not is irrelevant at this point. I have done yearly OCIs with up to 9k with good UOAs on both our Toyotas but I will scale back to 5k ocis in the future for peace of mind.
What I've gathered from his videos is that people missinterpret and abuse the 1year/10k oci recommendation from toyota, they do go over a year or they do go over 10k miles with oil that is NOT full synthetic.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

This thread will be going around in circles. Someone will always throw “I had cars for 20 years with 15k OCI without issues”.

Its 17 years now and yes it did.
My previous car, an old 2004 peugeot 206 1,6 16v had 20k oci's. I was not very keen on maintainance (more on looks because i was young and poor) and i useally changed the oil around 25 30k. It had 213k miles when i scrapped/dismantled it (Ecu fault).
Sold the engine cheap because of the high mileage to a mate of mine who planned on building a turbo on it, he rebuild the engine and said the inside looked like new. This car was also drivin long distances and fast.