For all you who are HIGH on TGMO!

[ccl088]

TGMO 0w20 with 1200 miles on oil and 21000 miles on car. Car was always serviced at Dealer.Documented. Had 2 oil changes, supposedly with 0w20 Full Syn TGMO. 10000 mile OCI.Yeah Right!

I drained what was in the motor when purchased and sent off for analyses because I don't trust dealers and that's why I asked if Blackstone could tell me if it had Full Syn in motor. I will send another sample after 5k on the oil in there now which is Castrol Edge w\Titainium 5w20.



CHRIS: We aren't sure if this Camry was equipped with the 4-cylinder or the 6-cylinder. We put up
averages for the I-4, but if that's wrong, let us know. They show typical wear after about 6,000 miles on the
oil, so with only 1,200 miles on this oil, copper shows some wear at brass and bronze parts. We don't have
the ability to test the base stock, which would be required to determine if this is synthetic oil or not. If you
send in a virgin sample of the synthetic oil, we can compare the additive packages and see if they're similar.
Check back to monitor COPPER.


First number is actual sample. Second number is average for motor


Toyota 0W/20
0 qts BETWEEN CHANGES
12/27/2013


Toyota 2.5L 4-cyl (2AR-FE) VVT-i
1,200 Miles ON OIL



OIL
REPORT

ALUMINUM-4 3
CHROMIUM-0 0
IRON -5 7
COPPER -6 2
LEAD -0 1
TIN -0 1
MOLY -106 74
NICKEL -0 0
SILVER -0 0
TITANIUM-0 2
POTASSIUM3 1
BORON -3 31
SILICON -18 16
SODIUM -3 47
CALCIUM -2067 1979
MAGNESIUM12 221
PHOSPHORS688 679
ZINC -763 783
BARIUM -0 0


SUS Viscosity @ 210F - 48.2 46-57
cSI Viscosity @ 100C - 6.73 6.0-9.7
Flashpoint in F - 415 >385

 

[Rand]

whats wrong with it?

you don't know if/when the oil is changed.
you only know what they said they put in it.
you have no previous trending history from your engine.
Not sure what we are supposed to take away from your post except drama?

 

[ccl088]

What's wrong? Read Blackstone comments. I have recent date and as stated, 1200 miles on this oil! May be some Drama but not made up sir.

Also look at the cSI Viscosity @ 100C with 1200 miles on the oil!

Assuming the car came from the factory with TGMO 0w20, this car had 2 10k oil changes. The second change is the oil in sample. Copper is 3X the average! Motor has ONLY 21k miles. The Viscosity is very low @ 6.73 compared to the virgin oil @ bout 8.8. And I am supposed to run this oil another 8800 miles?!! Look what it has done to the motor, that would be high bearing wear!!!!!!

 

[The_Eric]

Fine, put in some 10w-60 if it makes you happy... Don't come to the forum with the attitude that Blackstone is infallible, especially when you know little about the car and have no trending history. Besides, it sounds like you have your mind made up already.

 

[The_Eric]

Also, there's too many "good" UOAs out there on TGMO for one potentially "bad" one to have much sway in matters.

 

[stranger706]

The other few million Toyotas running this oil seem to be doing just fine...

 

[ccl088]

All with possible high copper content..lol

 

[Brybo86]

What is so bad about 6 copper on a relatively new engine?

 

[ccl088]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Fine, put in some 10w-60 if it makes you happy... Don't come to the forum with the attitude that Blackstone is infallible, especially when you know little about the car and have no trending history. Besides, it sounds like you have your mind made up already.



It's not as much the weight, it's the oil..

 

[ccl088]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Also, there's too many "good" UOAs out there on TGMO for one potentially "bad" one to have much sway in matters.


This is not to SWAY anyone. There just isn't many reports like this for TGMO.

 

[CHARLIEBRONSON21]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Fine, put in some 10w-60 if it makes you happy... Don't come to the forum with the attitude that Blackstone is infallible, especially when you know little about the car and have no trending history. Besides, it sounds like you have your mind made up already.


Or 75W140

 

[ccl088]

Originally Posted By: CHARLIEBRONSON21
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Fine, put in some 10w-60 if it makes you happy... Don't come to the forum with the attitude that Blackstone is infallible, especially when you know little about the car and have no trending history. Besides, it sounds like you have your mind made up already.


Or 75W140



Hehe

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: ccl088
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Also, there's too many "good" UOAs out there on TGMO for one potentially "bad" one to have much sway in matters.


This is not to SWAY anyone. There just isn't many reports like this for TGMO.


You're right, there's not.

In the land of the interwebz, it's hard to tell how people mean something. At first, it seemed as if this was not a constructive post, but instead a bash of TGMO when in scheme of things, little is really known about what's going on.

 

[901Memphis]

There is nothing wrong with the report on wear metals for an engine still breaking in. You would be really alarmed if you had a GM engine with 50+ ppm copper.

Blackstone has been wrong about viscosity before and even if they are your wear is clearly unaffected with it being in grade and single digit iron.

 

[90crvtec]

There are a couple of things wrong here. None of which appear to be in the numbers shown in the UOA.

1st, Blackstone is unfortunately not that consistent with their comments on UOAs. Sometimes they give good advice, other times they say something silly like "monitor copper" on a new engine like this with a single sampling. If you had submitted your 6th consecutive UOA with a combined total of 50,000 miles, and copper was higher, and Blackstone told you to "Monitor copper," that would make a lot more sense.

The 2nd issue is that without a trend established, you don't know if this copper is going to continue to increase with mileage. I realize you are alarmed because you feel that with only 1200 miles, having copper at 6 is too high. However, this is assuming that copper will continue to increase with mileage and without proper trending on your car, we don't know if this is true yet or not. It could be that copper is 6 and stays there for the next 7000 miles. If so then it isn't so bad, is it? Need more data.

I think it is too early to call this as a negative or a positive for TGMO. Also, some other folks have rightly pointed out that you don't really know if this is TGMO in the crank case or not. Judging by the flash point and the low viscosity @ 100C, this does appear to be some kind of 0w20 synthetic, we just don't know which one.

And for the record, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't use TGMO nor do I go out of my way to find it or use it in other vehicles. However, this does seem a bit over sensationalized given the lack of data that we have to go off of.

 

[heynow]

6ppm copper is nothing to be alarmed about.

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

 

[ccl088]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
There is nothing wrong with the report on wear metals for an engine still breaking in. You would be really alarmed if you had a GM engine with 50+ ppm copper.

Blackstone has been wrong about viscosity before and even if they are your wear is clearly unaffected with it being in grade and single digit iron.


Well if Iron was high then I would really have a problem. Bearings are softer than steel. But I was after 2 things in the analyses, 1)Was it a Full Synthetic? 2)Was Iron high because of another problem I am having (ie: Start up clatter). So I was happy about the low Iron levels.

 

[Clevy]

Ha.
So we've got a single used oil analysis here with possibly high numbers coming from a basically new engine that is still breaking in,and for some reason tgmo is to blame.
First off a blackstone used oil analysis that costs 30 bucks isn't in any way accurate for measuring wear. Its duty is to monitor the oils life,so putting any bets in the wear metal measurements is a bet lost.
The equipment they use for these cheap analysis cannot accurately measure wear metals and they would get different metal numbers from the same sample if measured again.
Secondly how can anyone tell if its actually anything more than a particle streak considering there is only a single sample and nothing to compare it to.

All anyone can glean from this used oil analysis is that the oil had fuel in it judging by the flashpoint and it was changed prematurely.
If 10000 miles was too much for this oil that was developed for Toyota engines then we can be sure of a long list of vehicles in the dealer repair shops and some mention of it in a simple google search.
Nothing to see here except a newb's lack of experience reading a used oil analysis and his/her crying wolf.
Carry on

 

[Kuato]

Something else, is that the stealership may not have actually changed the oil at 20k. Every used car dealer will tell you the oil has been changed... If that is true then that is a pretty good report, for an 11k run on a fairly new engine.

 

[steveh]

If the engine blows up your still under warranty!!!