Filter size: yesteryear vs today

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I read the OP's post and that's what I was responding to. You are the one who used the word "better" which neither I nor the OP had used.

I don't subscribe to the notion that a larger filter is automatically better, no. To me that is secondary to filtering efficiency. All assuming it is designed and constructed properly so that it does not fail during use.

If I was to use a bigger filter, it would be for the extra oil capacity it provides without overfilling the sump. But on my car I have a cartridge filter so bigger isn't a real option. That said, the filter element is bigger than all the complete filters on my previous cars.

Like you I don't find stuff in the pleats even after 50,000 km so what's the point.
 
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My two cents....
Had many 60's - 70's cars, GM and Fords mostly with V8s. The oil change interval increase from around 2,000 miles in the early sixties to 7,500 miles in the mid 70's. The oil filters were large and stayed on for two oil changes. There was such a thing as regular and severe maintenance schedules but most people fit into the regular schedule. The common large spin on filter doesn't seem to have changed at all since then except for the silicone anti drain back valve and maybe the media is different. Engines last longer now. Engine, fuel, oil or carburation/fuel injection, I don't know why, but I would guess it's a combination of many things.

I agree that engines today last longer. No question about it. But as you mentioned, that can be attributed to much better unleaded gasoline, along with precise, computer controlled fuel injection, that provides the exact fuel / air charge regardless of engine temperature, humidity, engine load, or altitude.

Carburetors, along with automatic chokes, and the heavily leaded gasoline of the period, were basically horrible at accomplishing the same task. With many engines requiring "tune ups" in as few as every 8,000 to 10,000 miles. New spark plugs, rotor, condenser, distributor cap, and don't forget the "points", along with setting the "dwell".

Today you don't touch the plugs until at least 100,000 miles. Spin on oil filters haven't changed much, except for getting smaller, and more cheaply made. Yeah, the media might be slightly better at filtration.

But overall that is pretty meaningless when compared to everything else, along with much better synthetic lubricating oils. All of which contribute far more to long engine life, than the teacup sized oil filters of today.
 
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ZeeOSix

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^^^ I don't recall anyone saying that smaller oil filters have contributed to longer engine life. It has nothing to do with the filter size. it's mainly about filtering efficiency and holding capacity, and keeping the sump cleaner than not over the OCI, so a much more efficient oil filter certainly could contribute to longer engine life. I highy doubt the average oil filter on the auto parts store or dealership shelves 50 years ago were 99% @ 20μ.
 

ZeeOSix

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^^^ It's hard to find advertised efficiency numbers of the oil filters back in the 70s. The Purolator back then was probably the most efficient filter back then if I had to bet. I'd also bet it wasn't 99% @ 20μ in 1970.

Fact is, oil filter media technology has came a long way over the last 50 years. And the standard filter efficiency testing standards have too. ISO-4548-12 has been around since 2000, so it's about as good as efficiency testing is going to be/get. No international testing standard stays around that long if it doesn't have some good merit.
 
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I don't know exactly what it is you want to hear? I've used Fram filters of various sizes and types for the last 50+years, and NEVER had a problem. Or even so much as a leak. Not once.

I used a Toyota once, and had nothing but. So you tell me. If you love them so much, I'll sell you a case..... Minus 1. PM me and we'll talk price and shipping.
Read @ supton's post #59 that may tell you something.
 
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My 2015 5.7 HEMI still uses a full size filter. I think this has more to do with manufacturers being cheap, than it does with engines all of a sudden being so wonderful and clean.

My 2018 Toyota Camry takes one of those cheap, tiny little, "mini filters". The can itself is so thin and cheaply made, I can crush it with a strap wrench removing it. This is all about cost. Now they are able to make 3 filters with the same material they used to make one out of. The dollars. Always the dollars.
Every Toyota I've done an oil change on where I work (with cartridge filters) has a very clean looking filter, even the ones going 10k between changes, a bigger filter would be a waste.
 

Job

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Out of curiosity, what tool did you use? I bought just about every type of oil filter wrench they sell, "just in case". All were unused up until I put this Toyota / Denso abortion on.

I'm not a fan of their whole O-Ring set up. O-rings have a place, but not on oil filters. I'm very cautious about applying torque when seating oil filters. It took next to nothing before this filter seated to a steel on steel condition.

I can't imagine if someone at a Quick Lube joint had torqued that thing. I'd still be fighting trying to get it off. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if these were a cheapened up, "economized" version of something that was at one time, half way decent.
If there isn’t much room I use the Lisle claw type, a cap wrench. The Lisle bites in and holds strongly. I haven’t noticed much difference in filter brands being hard to remove. Sometimes they are very tight or aren’t, brand doesn’t seem to matter.
 
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If there isn’t much room I use the Lisle claw type, a cap wrench. The Lisle bites in and holds strongly. I haven’t noticed much difference in filter brands being hard to remove. Sometimes they are very tight or aren’t, brand doesn’t seem to matter.

After the strap wrench collapsed the can, I used the Kobalt toothed jaw "wrench" to remove it. (The one with the blue and black handles, next to the dental mirror). It got it off, but it tore the the flimsy can open in the process. I have a total of 4 of those types. The Kobalt had the smallest diameter, which helped.

Ogs1JR7.jpg
 
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After the strap wrench collapsed the can, I used the Kobalt toothed jaw "wrench" to remove it. (The one with the blue and black handles, next to the dental mirror). It got it off, but it tore the the flimsy can open in the process. I have a total of 4 of those types. The Kobalt had the smallest diameter, which helped.

Ogs1JR7.jpg


I have the Walmart version of that same wrench. They work great.
 

ZeeOSix

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If you want a heavy gauge can, buy a racing filter like the Fram HP series or similar.

 

ZeeOSix

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That sounds like a plan. Except I don't see anything that would work on a 2018 Camry 2.5L. (Fram 4967).
I see that after looking if any Fram HP is about the same size, and they don't have one. They only show two HP models with 3/4-16 threads.

I'd look at Royal Purple then to see it they have one for your engine. They have very thick cans and also high efficiency. Not real cheap, but you have to pay for what you want/get.
 
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Some engines (GM LSx, Mopar HEMI) still spec larger filters. These are also "dirty" engines compared to some of their peers. There's actually an AMSOIL TSB on the matter that reduces the filter OCI length on them because of that. The filters were loading up to the point of bypass with the longer 25,000 mile intervals.
Apparently this continues to be an issue with the HEMI, even with less efficient filters. There was just a post in the Ram group where someone experienced a loaded K&N oil filter halfway thru a normal service interval.

I guess these engines can be extremely “dirty” depending on the operating conditions. Using anything more efficient than the factory “rock stopper” filter creates the risk of premature filter issues.
 
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Apparently this continues to be an issue with the HEMI, even with less efficient filters. There was just a post in the Ram group where someone experienced a loaded K&N oil filter halfway thru a normal service interval.

I guess these engines can be extremely “dirty” depending on the operating conditions. Using anything more efficient than the factory rock stopper filter creates the risk of premature filter issues.
Interesting! Is this thought to be a less efficient air filter system, i.e. leaks. Or hot spots, sludge points in the engine?

I run an ultra on my ram, but I won't be doing any extended intervals. Time yes perhaps 1 year, but mileage no. 3k a year.
 
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Interesting! Is this thought to be a less efficient air filter system, i.e. leaks. Or hot spots, sludge points in the engine?

I run an ultra on my ram, but I won't be doing any extended intervals. Time yes perhaps 1 year, but mileage no. 3k a year.
I am not sure- it has something to do with the combustion process causing more carbon and soot to end up in the engine oil. I change mine every 3-4K and have noticed idle oil pressure to drop by 2-3 psi after a few thousand miles, even when using the Genuine Mopar filter.
 

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Apparently this continues to be an issue with the HEMI, even with less efficient filters. There was just a post in the Ram group where someone experienced a loaded K&N oil filter halfway thru a normal service interval.

I guess these engines can be extremely “dirty” depending on the operating conditions. Using anything more efficient than the factory “rock stopper” filter creates the risk of premature filter issues.
Big or little filter, did you happen to see? That's why I run the big filter on ours, lol. And of course don't push the intervals. I'll C&P the next one off the truck (it's an Ultra) but I have no concerns about it being full of particulate.

And yes, both the LSx and the HEMI are "dirty" engines in terms of producing particulate and yes, if that particulate is getting trapped by the filter (rather than going through the "rock catcher" lol) it is going to load up.
 
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Big or little filter, did you happen to see? That's why I run the big filter on ours, lol. And of course don't push the intervals. I'll C&P the next one off the truck (it's an Ultra) but I have no concerns about it being full of particulate.
The commenter didn't specify, but I would guess stock size - so small one.
 

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Interesting! Is this thought to be a less efficient air filter system, i.e. leaks. Or hot spots, sludge points in the engine?

I run an ultra on my ram, but I won't be doing any extended intervals. Time yes perhaps 1 year, but mileage no. 3k a year.
Nothing to do with the air intake tract, the HEMI has dual ignition because the mostly hemispherical chamber has very poor low speed swirl characteristics which leads to incomplete combustion. This is even worse on the bigger bore versions like the 6.4L. The idea of having two phased spark events is to propagate two flame fronts that result in a cleaner burn, but the low swirl at low speed is still going to result in it being dirtier than a pent-roof.

I'm surprised GM is having that issue, as typically the wedge chamber design is better in this department, but it may be due to the use of DI now in that engine family, which as we know, produces considerable soot and fuel dilution, so it may be that DI mitigates the wedge's advantage.
 
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