Filter size: yesteryear vs today

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It's hard to argue with the results. I was around when those cars with those magnificent large filters were new.

You expected major issues with cars once they were outside of their 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. A car with 100k miles on it was considered to be near end of life, and for good reason. Engine overhauls, carburetor rebuilds, frequent carb adjustments, front ends that shimmied and pulled, terrible handling, lackluster brakes. I could go on.

Give me a modern car with it's "crap filter" *any* day. A modern car that has been maintained is considered to be "just broken in" at 100k miles, crap filter and all.

Those awful tiny cheap filters must be doing something right.
 
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ZeeOSix

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When using a strap wrench to remove an oil filter, try to put it as close to the base as possible. I have to agree that if the only thing that happens is the can crushes or dents some when it's removed with a strap wrench, then that really shouldn't matter much if the filter was fine the whole time it was in use.

I had a Denso filter on one of my motorcycles seize on so tight I literally had to destroy it to get it off the engine. And yes, it was installed exactly per the service manual.
 
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When using a strap wrench to remove an oil filter, try to put it as close to the base as possible. I have to agree that if the only thing that happens is the can crushes or dents some when it's removed with a strap wrench, then that really shouldn't matter much if the filter was fine the whole time it was in use.

I had a Denso filter on one of my motorcycles seize on so tight I literally had to destroy it to get it off the engine. And yes, it was installed exactly per the service manual.

Sounds like this isn't a rarity as far as occurrence. Needlessly to say, I'll never install another one on my car.
 
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When a "Genuine Toyota" oil filter is manufactured from so thin of material, that you can crush it with a tool that is specifically designed to remove oil filters, (a metal strap oil filter wrench, which I've used to remove many oil filters with before), then YES, it IS about cost. There is absolutely no excuse or reason, other than cost, to make an oil filter so flimsy, that it won't hold up to the tool designed to be used to remove it........

And no, it was not on too tight. Toyota oil filters seal with an O-Ring. And they tighten by hand until they stop against the metal backing of the filter.

I can tell you that I tore the sheet metal of many filters back in the day removing them. These were those wonderful filters of yesteryear when men were men and the sheet metal was thick.

This whole thread smacks of old men shaking their fists and yelling at clouds. And I say that as an old man.

Modern filters are obviously more than adequate. Cars and engines last longer than ever, and when engines do fail, the failures are more often than not not oil related.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and this pudding taste pretty good.
 

ZeeOSix

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Sounds like this isn't a rarity as far as occurrence. Needlessly to say, I'll never install another one on my car.
It's probably because of the "torque stop" feature. If the edge of the can digs into the filter seat too much it can apparently seize the filter in some cases.

If you're never going to use any of them anymore, you should cut one open and look at the inside construction, and also do a burn test on the ADBV to see if it's actually black silicone.
 
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I'm not "angry". I'm disgusted. I paid good money for a case of OEM Toyota filters. And I have no doubt they are, seeing as they passed through Toyota twice before they came to me.

In spite of that they're cheap crap. There is no other description for it. Once again, an oil filter should not deform, and or collapse from the normal torque and force that is required to remove it.

I've had plenty of oil filters that were far tighter and tougher to remove than this POS, and none of them deformed by simply putting a strap wrench on them. None. Ever.

If you read my above post, I said the Toyota filters seal hand tight with an O-Ring that stops when the filter base contacts metal. You don't torque beyond that. In spite of that it was tight enough to collapse the can before it broke loose. That is not proper filter performance, period. I don't much care what you think it, "sounds like". That's exactly what happened. And it happened because the filter can is too thin, and it's cheaply made.

I've had this vehicle for 4 years since I bought it new. And I change oil every 6 months. And up until this I used nothing but Fram 4967 series oil filters, and never had a bit of trouble.

I purchased of case of these OEM Toyota filters, (bad move on my part), because I thought I was getting a quality product. I obviously did not. So live and learn. Luckily, I had an extra Fram laying around, so I didn't have to put another POS Toyota / Denso, or whatever tin can on. Now I can relax knowing I won't have a messy fight on my hands next October, when I change it again.
After all of that I’d say I tend to agree that you should never buy nor use those filters again.
 
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I can tell you that I tore the sheet metal of many filters back in the day removing them. These were those wonderful filters of yesteryear when men were men and the sheet metal was thick.

This whole thread smacks of old men shaking their fists and yelling at clouds. And I say that as an old man.

Modern filters are obviously more than adequate. Cars and engines last longer than ever, and when engines do fail, the failures are more often than not not oil related.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and this pudding taste pretty good.
My beef isn't so much with "how good they are", or aren't. We're stuck with what they are. Like it or not. Personally, I don't agree with this whole "less is more", concept..... My gripe is with how cheap and crappy they're made. There is no excuse for making garbage. I don't care what it is. Toyota oil filters have proven, at least to me, they are nowhere near the quality I expect to get in a oil filter.
 
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My beef isn't so much with "how good they are", or aren't. We're stuck with what they are. Like it or not. Personally, I don't agree with this whole "less is more", concept..... My gripe is with how cheap and crappy they're made. There is no excuse for making garbage. I don't care what it is. Toyota oil filters have proven, at least to me, they are nowhere near the quality I expect to get in a oil filter.


I would get a Fram then.
 
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I don't doubt it for a minute. Crap is crap.
You're the first guy I've heard of complain about Toyota/Denso flimsy cans. Who knows maybe you're applying too much force installing them. Regardless, something doesn't jive. Have you measured? Almost every flimsy can complaint has been directed at Fram. It seems like it's only you having a problem with them, to the point of getting snarky.
 
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Job

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They came direct from Toyota, who then shipped them to a Toyota dealer, who shipped them to me. They are not counterfeit. They're just cheap crap.

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Those are the new N1 model it says. I bought a case of five, no problems so far. It is a new design, smaller, and no one knows the “efficiency” by the way. The 90915-yzzf2 has a can thicker than a consumer Fram, about 25% thicker. I measured them with a ball end micrometer. I have to use a removal tool to take the Toyota filters off, but have to on other filters too. I didn’t find they crush easier, although how to measure going gorilla mode under a car trying to get the filter off with channelocks or something. I didn’t measure the N1 yet. It also has a greenish tint adbv, not the same as the F2 or F1. It could very well this new filter was economized over the old version. No one knows I would guess.
 
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You're the first guy I've heard of complain about Toyota/Denso flimsy cans. Who knows maybe you're applying too much force installing them. Regardless, something doesn't jive. Have you measured? Almost every flimsy can complaint has been directed at Fram. It seems like it's only you having a problem with them, to the point of getting snarky.
I don't know exactly what it is you want to hear? I've used Fram filters of various sizes and types for the last 50+years, and NEVER had a problem. Or even so much as a leak. Not once.

I used a Toyota once, and had nothing but. So you tell me. If you love them so much, I'll sell you a case..... Minus 1. PM me and we'll talk price and shipping.
 
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I have to use a removal tool to take the Toyota filters off.........
Out of curiosity, what tool did you use? I bought just about every type of oil filter wrench they sell, "just in case". All were unused up until I put this Toyota / Denso abortion on.

I'm not a fan of their whole O-Ring set up. O-rings have a place, but not on oil filters. I'm very cautious about applying torque when seating oil filters. It took next to nothing before this filter seated to a steel on steel condition.

I can't imagine if someone at a Quick Lube joint had torqued that thing. I'd still be fighting trying to get it off. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if these were a cheapened up, "economized" version of something that was at one time, half way decent.
 
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I'd check them anyway, just in case.



I don't know exactly what it is you want to hear? I've used Fram filters of various sizes and types for the last 50+years, and NEVER had a problem. Or even so much as a leak. Not once.

I used a Toyota once, and had nothing but. So you tell me. If you love them so much, I'll sell you a case..... Minus 1. PM me and we'll talk price and shipping.
Take it easy man, I'm using a XG4386 on my car right now and two more stashed along with a Toyota yzzf1. They are both good filters. Problem is you've been ranting for I don't know how long now. Get a grip on yourself. Not even one minor leak from an oil filter in fifty years. Okay, if you say so.
 
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Not even one minor leak from an oil filter in fifty years. Okay, if you say so.

I'm not understanding why you would think that would be uncommon? If you take the time to inspect the filter before you install it. And properly clean the mating surface, and pre lubricate the rubber, along with torquing it properly, why should it leak?
 

RAR

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Avoiding the whole battle about flimsy canister filters.. 😎

My Charger uses the FL-820S equivalent so I tend to buy a few Denso or Hastings versions if I’m getting RockAuto stuff. Because this same filter fits my car, my nephew’s 2009 Charger, my other nephew’s Dodge Ram pickup, and it did fit a couple of other cars that were sold since.

Oddly, but I think it’s about clearance, my 2010 Crown Vic PI uses a small FL-910S filter instead of the same large filter the now-trashed 99 Crown Vic did. That same small filter fits on our two lawn tractors. 😛

My brother’s 99 GMC Suburban K2500 with the 454 V8 uses a small little oil filter as well. But having been down there, it’s because a large filter like they used to spec doesn’t fit easily into the cramped spot to mount and tighten. The small one will.

My two cents.
 
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It's not really about cost. Look at an engine bay of a 1960s or 70s car compared to today. Notice anything? A modern engine bay starts off smaller to begin with, and is completely packed up with things that either didn't exist or were rare on cars of those earlier era. And look at the belly pans under most engines today to get aerodynamic drag down so they can meet CAFE.

My dad had an early 60's C10 truck. You could literally find a place to stand next to the engine inside the bay.

These small filters are all about the limited space available in the engine bay of a modern car and what size is actually required to make an effective filter.
I don’t think I agree about space. Those old engines barely ran, and a s a result, those filters were grabbing stuff out of the oil. Today? slice open a filter and it is clean.

Its smaller because it doesn’t have to be larger. Not unless if you want to use for multiple oci’s.
 
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I’ve been buying Denso filters for a while, for my Camy’s, and those suckers are hard to slice open. Did an oil change on our Honda and the oem filter was way easier to slice open. Was the Honda one truly oem, or did my MIL get a crappy one during her oil change at the dealer? no idea.
 
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My two cents....
Had many 60's - 70's cars, GM and Fords mostly with V8s. The oil change interval increase from around 2,000 miles in the early sixties to 7,500 miles in the mid 70's. The oil filters were large and stayed on for two oil changes. There was such a thing as regular and severe maintenance schedules but most people fit into the regular schedule. The common large spin on filter doesn't seem to have changed at all since then except for the silicone anti drain back valve and maybe the media is different. Engines last longer now. Engine, fuel, oil or carburation/fuel injection, I don't know why, but I would guess it's a combination of many things.
 
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