Filling up new oil filter prior to installation

[mr_diy]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I don't see why so many people have a hard time accepting Jim Allen's info about fresh oil and particle counts... If he's got hard data, what's to dispute?

Also, for the pre fill or die crowd, try to pre fill a cartridge filter.


I prefill cartridges on a GM shortstar, you put the cartridge in the holder and pour away. The oil could even be added on the outside of the filter if worried new oil isn't that clean. Anyway there is likely more contamination on the inside of new filters, from filter media loose fibers and from machined metal parts.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: mr_diy
Anyway there is likely more contamination on the inside of new filters, from filter media loose fibers and from machined metal parts.


That's why I carefully inspect the threads and inside the center tube for debris and clean everything up well. Even put the vacuum cleaner hose on the center hole to suck out any loose stuff from the center tube. Then it goes in a zip-lock bag for storage until used. Clean room practices on oil filter ... nuts!

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
I don't doubt JA's information regarding 'some' bulk new oil cleanliness. That said, still haven't gotten an answer to the far greater amount of unfiltered new oil that is poured down the fill hole that will come in contact with multiple engine surfaces prior to being run through the oil filter. Why would the relatively small amount of new oil poured in a new filter be more significant than that in the engine?

And it should be noted that Jim said he prefills his filters. Clearly the goal of reducing dry start time must outweigh any new oil dirt fear. But as said, prefill or not makes no significant difference in engine longevity.

And while we're at proving information, I'd like to see authoritative citing saying GM and Chrysler specifically discourage oil filter prefill. Anecdotal hearsay posted here doesn't cut it for me.


I'm guessing that whatever manufacturers that don't condone pre filling filters do so because they can't control what goes into them. Jim's info points out that oil isn't perfect going in (I suspect the manu's know this) and coupled with some shade tree guy working in a sand lot could spell potential problems. Thus the recommendation to leave oil out of the filter and let it do it's job.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
.... I'm guessing that whatever manufacturers that don't condone pre filling filters do so because they can't control what goes into them. Jim's info points out that oil isn't perfect going in (I suspect the manu's know this) and coupled with some shade tree guy working in a sand lot could spell potential problems. Thus the recommendation to leave oil out of the filter and let it do it's job.

Beyond JA's info, I'd like to see an authoritative citing that points to the manufacturer(s) that 'now' have a current prohibition. And I'm guessing they must be in the minority as I've seen nothing posted here or elsewhere with a current vehicle manufacturer published prohibition against prefill. And again, the fact that JA says he still prefills his filters even in light of his info and possible explanation tells me that consideration isn't significant when compared to his preference to prefill.

 

[The_Eric]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against your points. In fact, I too pre fill them on certain occasions. Just postulating that if there is a manu that states not to pre fill, then the above may be their reasoning.

 

[97tbird]

I dunk my cartridge filters for the Bimmer in a can of new oil before I install it...
IDK if it makes any sense, but I am sure it does no harm.

 

[HTSS_TR]

It didn't do any harm, but there is a mess doing that with all the oil dripping all over the garage.

 

[97tbird]

^ Not if you're careful, and have some shop towels - I didn't drop any oil anywhere when I did it.

 

[DragRace]

If the filter sits at an angle,I wont pre-fill the filter.
If it sits straight up and down,yes I pre-fill the filter.

 

[JerryBob]

As I understand it, dirty oil goes through the little holes surrounding the filter, and exits as filtered oil through the center tube, back into the engine.

For someone wanting to prefill their filter with clean oil, wouldn't carefully filling the filter via the little holes solve both problems of wanting clean oil AND a primed filter?

Obviously, it would be harder and more tedious to do, but if someone is concerned about contamination in new oil, it might give them a warm-and-fuzzy to do so.

I used to pre-fill, but after reading up on it, I decided that the risks outweigh the benefits.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: JerryBob
As I understand it, dirty oil goes through the little holes surrounding the filter, and exits as filtered oil through the center tube, back into the engine.

For someone wanting to prefill their filter with clean oil, wouldn't carefully filling the filter via the little holes solve both problems of wanting clean oil AND a primed filter?

Obviously, it would be harder and more tedious to do ...


It would be impossible to do unless you pushed the ADBV open somehow, and that action could pose possible risk to damaging the ADBV.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I always pre-fill my oil filters before installing them. It makes me sleep better at night.

 

[cheesepuffs]

I never pre-fill my filters and neither do service techs at independent garages, quick lube shops, or dealership service departments (except with heavy diesel equipment with massive filters). If this actually made an impact then manufacturers would be specifying this procedure. In reality, techs have been installing dry oil filters in literally millions of vehicles for decades without issue. I know on this forum we all get a little OCD about the little things, but installing a dry filter is not a problem and shouldn't be a concern. It's the normal way that things are done.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
In reality, techs have been installing dry oil filters in literally millions of vehicles for decades without issue. I know on this forum we all get a little OCD about the little things, but installing a dry filter is not a problem and shouldn't be a concern. It's the normal way that things are done.

I'd say it's the most expedient way things are done and as been mentioned there is a risk of pouring in dirty oil into the filter which is of course avoided if you don't. But that doesn't mean there isn't a technical advantage to the practice and one can discount any possibility of dirt or other foreign material in oil from a sealed bottle. Anything harmful like grit that's big enough to be stopped by the filter would be at the bottom of the bottle and one is closely observing the quality of the oil as it is poured slowly into the filter.

In my experience I have found a problem with oil from a sealed bottle only once and that was a thick polymer or jelled oil that was obvious the second the oil was poured into the engine.

 

[rangerone]

Company policy at the "Fast Lube" I manage is that ALL turbo and diesel motors get primed. In practice I just have my tech's prime every filter they can.

In my opinion it helps cut out 3-10 seconds of no oil pressure dry starts. In the pit under a car, you can hear when the oil pressure comes up.

If a car gets its oil changed every 5000 miles, so by 200,000 miles has had 40 oil changes. If it takes 6 seconds to get oil pressure, that motor has ran for 4 minutes with no oil pressure. Same engine with a primed filter gets pressure in 2 seconds, has ran with no oil pressure for 1.333 minutes. I think there is benefit to priming them, is it a lot? I don't know, but it is there, so why not.

 

[forcedtalon]

An engine run for 3 seconds with no oil pressure at idle will not pose a problem as there is no load on the crankshaft or bearings. The engine is not completely dry as there is still some oil left on the parts from shut down.
An engine will see more wear starting it up in the morning when its 0* outside.

 

[MrDatabase]

I add some oil to the filter before I install it.
It helps get oil pressure up quickly when I start the car after the oil change.
It's not hard, and doesn't take a lot of time.

It's a little perk that comes from changing my own oil - I'm sure if I took it to someplace and had the oil changed they wouldn't take the time or trouble to put a little oil in the filter before they put it on the car.

 

[MrDatabase]

Another point.
Oil filters have a valve to hold oil in the filter when the engine is not running.

Why have these valves if oil in the filter wasn't important???

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: MrDatabase
Another point.
Oil filters have a valve to hold oil in the filter when the engine is not running.

Why have these valves if oil in the filter wasn't important???


The valve you refer to is called an anti-flow back, or anti-drawback valve. It was my impression that it's function is to to keep the contamination that is on the dirty side of the filter, from reentering the engine.

I don't see how it can keep the filter full of oil. As we all know, oil passes through the filter media. The anti-flowback valve will keep the oil in the filter from going back to where it came from, but it will not stop it from draining out through the exit side of the filter. It seems the only thing that is going to keep oil in the filter is gravity, and that is dependent upon the mounting position of the filter.

Of course a filter with the mounting plate up will stay full. A horizontally mounted filter will eventually drain to less than 1/2 full. And angled filters will drain to somewhere between these two.

My Outback has the oil filter on top of the engine, with the mounting plate down. Whenever I do an oil change, the filter is all but empty. It would be impossible for me to pre-fill the oil filter. Does this mean my engine is starved for oil every time I start it up? Interesting question.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Originally Posted By: MrDatabase
Another point.
Oil filters have a valve to hold oil in the filter when the engine is not running.

Why have these valves if oil in the filter wasn't important???


The valve you refer to is called an anti-flow back, or anti-drawback valve. It was my impression that it's function is to to keep the contamination that is on the dirty side of the filter, from reentering the engine.


Anti drain back valve ... ADBV. The real purpose of the ADBV is to keep the oiling system from draining back to the sump when the engine is not running, thereby preventing "dry starts". If dirty oil does drain back through the inlet of the filter, then it's draining back with the dirty oil in the sump anyway.

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
I don't see how it can keep the filter full of oil. As we all know, oil passes through the filter media. The anti-flowback valve will keep the oil in the filter from going back to where it came from, but it will not stop it from draining out through the exit side of the filter. It seems the only thing that is going to keep oil in the filter is gravity, and that is dependent upon the mounting position of the filter.


See the ADBV test I did in the thread linked below. The oil will not flow out through the media and out the center tube, even with gravity even with the base down.

And when an oil filter is mounted on a vehicle, the oil galleries should also stay full. Therefore, the ADBV should always keep the entire oiling system full of oil if it's working correctly.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pureone-pl14459-cut-open-pixs.140811/