yes, those horiz. filters do suck....
Filling up new oil filter prior to installation
- Thread starter mfisher1967
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Originally Posted By: paulo57509
he states to only pre-fill the oil filter half-way prior to installation in order to avoid locking up the lubrication system.
I realize this is an old thread, but I dont see where this has been answered.
How would pre-filling a filter cause anything to "lock up" ?
he states to only pre-fill the oil filter half-way prior to installation in order to avoid locking up the lubrication system.
I realize this is an old thread, but I dont see where this has been answered.
How would pre-filling a filter cause anything to "lock up" ?
Pre-filling the oil filter makes zero difference. People do it to make themselves feel better.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Pre-filling the oil filter makes zero difference. People do it to make themselves feel better.
It's certainly not a "dry start" like how many people think of an engine starved for oil. There's going to be a residual amount of oil in the system adequate for the time it takes to establish oil flow. That - and all the antiwear additives serve to protect engine parts.
Pre-filling the oil filter makes zero difference. People do it to make themselves feel better.
It's certainly not a "dry start" like how many people think of an engine starved for oil. There's going to be a residual amount of oil in the system adequate for the time it takes to establish oil flow. That - and all the antiwear additives serve to protect engine parts.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Pre-filling is the way to go! Many engines knock without pre-filling, what does that tell you?
If pre-filling the oil filter was such a great thing to do, the owners manual would state that it needed to be done.
Pre-filling is the way to go! Many engines knock without pre-filling, what does that tell you?
If pre-filling the oil filter was such a great thing to do, the owners manual would state that it needed to be done.
Sometimes I do pre-filling the oil filter, sometimes I forgot pre-filling until after the filter is installed. I could easily remove it to pre-fill but I didn't bother. The engines sounded the same with either way, pre-filling or not.
Number of cars that have died because people didn't prefill their filters before putting them on = ?
My guess is ? = 0
My guess is ? = 0
Here and there, you see a manufacturer council NOT to to prefill the filter, citing that you are essentially pouring "dirty" oil into the clean side of the filter. I don't go along with that and I prefill when possible. But is it vital? I don't think so. As has been said above, there isn't a rash of failures from not doing it and the vast majority of OCs are done without it.
There are a few specific engines that can really benefit from it because of the oil pump design and location. Rover V8s, and the Buick V8s their design was based upon, AMV V8s are just a couple of engines that will loose oil pump prime easily because of their front cover-mounted oil pumps that get very loose with age and can be difficult to prime. Prefilling helps in these cases. I spent many years working on Land Rovers and learned that when you OC them, you don't let them sit long periods with the oil drained and the filter off because the pump would lose prime and you could have trouble getting it to prime if you didn't prefill the filter (which was messy because the filter is nearly horizontal). I had the same experience with a couple of AMC V8s.
There are a few specific engines that can really benefit from it because of the oil pump design and location. Rover V8s, and the Buick V8s their design was based upon, AMV V8s are just a couple of engines that will loose oil pump prime easily because of their front cover-mounted oil pumps that get very loose with age and can be difficult to prime. Prefilling helps in these cases. I spent many years working on Land Rovers and learned that when you OC them, you don't let them sit long periods with the oil drained and the filter off because the pump would lose prime and you could have trouble getting it to prime if you didn't prefill the filter (which was messy because the filter is nearly horizontal). I had the same experience with a couple of AMC V8s.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Here and there, you see a manufacturer council NOT to to prefill the filter, citing that you are essentially pouring "dirty" oil into the clean side of the filter......
Never understood the "dirty oil" statement. That would be in addition to the much larger amount of "dirty oil" poured in the fill hole. Makes no sense to me.
I also prefill where possible. Does it make a significant difference? No. Just a personal preference in an attempt to reduce dry start time.
Here and there, you see a manufacturer council NOT to to prefill the filter, citing that you are essentially pouring "dirty" oil into the clean side of the filter......
Never understood the "dirty oil" statement. That would be in addition to the much larger amount of "dirty oil" poured in the fill hole. Makes no sense to me.
I also prefill where possible. Does it make a significant difference? No. Just a personal preference in an attempt to reduce dry start time.
Originally Posted By: Malo83
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Pre-filling is the way to go! Many engines knock without pre-filling, what does that tell you?
Buy another car
This happens on new cars too. I know the manufacturer doesnt say anything about pre filling the oil filter, but I think its a good practice. Im sure your car will last many many miles either way, but at least it sounds better when its prefilled, less noise.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Pre-filling is the way to go! Many engines knock without pre-filling, what does that tell you?
Buy another car
This happens on new cars too. I know the manufacturer doesnt say anything about pre filling the oil filter, but I think its a good practice. Im sure your car will last many many miles either way, but at least it sounds better when its prefilled, less noise.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Here and there, you see a manufacturer council NOT to to prefill the filter, citing that you are essentially pouring "dirty" oil into the clean side of the filter......
Never understood the "dirty oil" statement. That would be in addition to the much larger amount of "dirty oil" poured in the fill hole. Makes no sense to me.
I also prefill where possible. Does it make a significant difference? No. Just a personal preference in an attempt to reduce dry start time.
There are different fill hole locations. On my wife's Civic, it's right on the valve cover and I can see the oil pouring right into the valvetrain. On my WRX, there's a fill tube, and I believe it's going almost straight to the oil pan.
Now I do remember the craziest thing I ever did changing oil. I couldn't get off the oil filter of an '89 Integra after draining off the oil and didn't want to pour new oil in there if I had to change the oil filter again. So I poured the drained oil back in and drove to a parts store to get an oil filter wrench. Now that was pouring dirty oil back in.
Never did that again and the car has long since been sold. The engine was still running strong after about 100K miles, although it had gotten all sorts of weird stuff over the years, including dealer 20W-50 oil changes, service station oil changes (strangely enough they used Castrol GTX in bottles) but a 76 branded oil filter, 8500 miles between changes once, 10,000+ miles for one year using Mobil 1 10W-30 with only filter changes, and even Slick 50 once. It did have an issue with warm starts, and I had an idle air control valve fixed, sprayed the throttle body (and then the idle went way high), had the fuel pump replaced once, and also the igniter recall (where it failed on me on the way to a job interview). In the end I never fixed it, although research suggests that it was likely a fuel pump relay that refuses to work again until it cools down.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Here and there, you see a manufacturer council NOT to to prefill the filter, citing that you are essentially pouring "dirty" oil into the clean side of the filter......
Never understood the "dirty oil" statement. That would be in addition to the much larger amount of "dirty oil" poured in the fill hole. Makes no sense to me.
I also prefill where possible. Does it make a significant difference? No. Just a personal preference in an attempt to reduce dry start time.
There are different fill hole locations. On my wife's Civic, it's right on the valve cover and I can see the oil pouring right into the valvetrain. On my WRX, there's a fill tube, and I believe it's going almost straight to the oil pan.
Now I do remember the craziest thing I ever did changing oil. I couldn't get off the oil filter of an '89 Integra after draining off the oil and didn't want to pour new oil in there if I had to change the oil filter again. So I poured the drained oil back in and drove to a parts store to get an oil filter wrench. Now that was pouring dirty oil back in.
Never did that again and the car has long since been sold. The engine was still running strong after about 100K miles, although it had gotten all sorts of weird stuff over the years, including dealer 20W-50 oil changes, service station oil changes (strangely enough they used Castrol GTX in bottles) but a 76 branded oil filter, 8500 miles between changes once, 10,000+ miles for one year using Mobil 1 10W-30 with only filter changes, and even Slick 50 once. It did have an issue with warm starts, and I had an idle air control valve fixed, sprayed the throttle body (and then the idle went way high), had the fuel pump replaced once, and also the igniter recall (where it failed on me on the way to a job interview). In the end I never fixed it, although research suggests that it was likely a fuel pump relay that refuses to work again until it cools down.
^^^'If' that is the case with the WRX, that it goes straight to the oil pan and touches nothing else I'd have to say that is an exception rather than the norm. And 'to me' the term 'dirty oil' as applied to fresh oil seems silly.
Is it dirtier than the oil left sitting in the engine galleries with an oil change.
Just as prefilling likely does little to extend engine life, if one accepts the dirty oil theory with fresh oil (I don't), prefilling will also do little to shorten it. My .02
Is it dirtier than the oil left sitting in the engine galleries with an oil change.
Just as prefilling likely does little to extend engine life, if one accepts the dirty oil theory with fresh oil (I don't), prefilling will also do little to shorten it. My .02
Remember that used oil has been filtered by the oil filter and all the big chunks are gone (to the absolute efficiency of the media and some percentage beyond). That may not be true for new oil which, based on some data I got from a source at Parker, shows new oil ain't so clean and may have a lot of LARGE particles in it. Some of you may recall some material I posted on new oil cleanliness levels... and in some cases new oil has more contaminants (typically the larger sizes) in it than used oil that has been run thru a filter a few times. IIRC, of the oils I had on a list, Mopar oil was the dirtiest and I had some samples taken from a bulk tank at a truck dealership that you would swear was used oil by the horrific particle counts. Gave me the heebeejeebies about using bulk oil , I can tell you. So new oil is definitely not super clean and in some cases gets a little cleaner after running thru the filter a few times. That said, based on the ISO codes I've seen for MOST new oil, it's not bad enough to worry over a quart or so running thru.
Even if the new oil is "dirty" by the definition of not being run through the filter, that still wouldn't account for the much larger volume of oil that is poured through the fill hole which in every car I've ever owned is at the top of the engine and/or the valve cover.
So, the "dirty oil" -ers are saying that the 2qt. of new oil poured in the clean side of the oil filter, could make enough of difference on top the new oil poured in the fill hole. Fwiw, I haven't come close to using even 1/2 qt in with of prefill.
Doesn't seem logical to me.
So, the "dirty oil" -ers are saying that the 2qt. of new oil poured in the clean side of the oil filter, could make enough of difference on top the new oil poured in the fill hole. Fwiw, I haven't come close to using even 1/2 qt in with of prefill.
Doesn't seem logical to me.
Only bad story I've ever heard is-if a bit of foil or plastic from the jug gets into the center of the filter it is possible to clog an oil nozzle (for spraying oil onto the underside of a piston) on a Cummins or other turbodiesel engine. I used to prefill, but usually the oil light is out & pressure is up within 2 seconds on a restart. Don't think a bearing is going to wipe that quickly!
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Pre-filling is the way to go! Many engines knock without pre-filling, what does that tell you?
That some oiling systems are more sensitive than others. I've pre-filled the filters before as much as possible, and have installed filters bone dry before on the same vehicle and it didn't make any difference in start-up noise for me. Might have seen the oil pressure warning light go off a second sooner with the pre-filled filter, but that was the only think I noticed.
Pre-filling is the way to go! Many engines knock without pre-filling, what does that tell you?
That some oiling systems are more sensitive than others. I've pre-filled the filters before as much as possible, and have installed filters bone dry before on the same vehicle and it didn't make any difference in start-up noise for me. Might have seen the oil pressure warning light go off a second sooner with the pre-filled filter, but that was the only think I noticed.
My understanding is that engines deal with particles quite often and are robust enough that one pass where those chunks then get filtered is no big deal. It was noted that lots of fill holes are right on the valve cover where the oil is dumped straight onto the valvetrain before it drains into the sump. The filter is supposed to prevent multiple passes of the same crud from going through and going through thousands of times.
Never have pre-filled a filter. Never had an engine die on me.
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