Fiat 500 looks like a thimble on wheels...

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Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Wow, there's a whole slew of garbage posts in this thread.

A certain someone just seems to absolutely hate Fiat as a company, and won't get past the fact that every single car company has improved in product quality since 1977, and Fiat is among that list.

First off, the engines are built in Michigan, by hard working American workers. The automatic transmission is built in Japan, by hard working Japanese workers. The manual transmission is built in Italy, by a whole bunch of hard working Italian workers. The car is assembled in Mexico, by hard working Mexican workers. All the other components are a mish-mash of North American and South American parts.

I'm guessing that since you hate Fiat so much, you either owned one, and it left you penniless, and stuck on the side of the road, or you lost a past love to someone who owned a Fiat. I can't see you being so Anti-Fiat without one of those two experiences.

I actually have one of these fine cars parked in my driveway every single night, as it belongs to my gf. In fact, I drove it the 25 miles to work on the highway today. It clicked 4500 miles during the drive, too.

I'm going to share a secret with you that you just can't comprehend:

I thank Fiat very much that the 500 ISN'T a Corolla, a Yaris, or an Echo every time I get to drive it, or ride in it.

The car has personality, which is something that not only does every single vehicle in the Toyota lineup seriously lacking, but a good portion of the owners of said Toyota's also seem to lack.

An Italian car, just like Italian vehicles, are designed to bring out emotions in the owner and operator of the vehicle. If you can't understand this, just don't buy, rent, or test drive one, ever.

Its a fun little drivers car, and who cares if it doesn't offer the same space and utility as a Toyota RAV 4? Not me, and certainly not my gf.

If you think it looks like a thimble, good for you.
At least it doesn't look like every other compact car that's running around loose in this country.

If it doesn't sell in the tens of thousand every month because all the lemmings just want an appliance to get to and from work, that's even better, as you can't put a true price on being unique in a world surrounded by brain dead lemmings driving down the road spending more time looking at their iPhone than concentrating on what's around them in traffic.

Oh, and a quick note to end this whole thing:

Our car gets well over 38 mph on the highway here in Colorado.

Have a nice boring life.

BC.


I hate Fiat because they have made a lot of cars really, really badly. If bypassing that [censored] for a Japanese makes me a lemming, then I plead guilty. I'd rather be a lemming and drive the most dependable cars ever made (Toyota/Honda) than to be a Monkey that ignores history, ignores reliability issues, and calls inferior design and performance "soul", "style", and "character". The so called emotion that is most often evoked by Fiat drivers is that of contempt, for having paid so much for a car exceedingly inferior to many other makes. I see too, that you ride a Ducati...how can you stand all that vibration? I drive a better and faster bike, a Honda 1000R, which is smooth as silk and shifts smoother too. You see, I prefer refinement, reliability, durability, longevity, economy over "soul", "style", and "character"...laughable terms, to be sure.
 
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Originally Posted By: lovcom
I see too, that you ride a Ducati...how can you stand all that vibration? I drive a better and faster bike, a Honda 1000R, which is smooth as silk and shifts smoother too. You see, I prefer refinement, reliability, durability, longevity, economy over "soul", "style", and "character"...laughable terms, to be sure.


I'm sorry...

What vibration are you talking about on my 848?
I have nearly 8k miles on mine, and have yet to run into this "vibration" that you talk about. Nor the unreliability, or the non-smooth shifting, or anything else you seem to have made up about my Italian vehicle.

Thinking your bike is somehow better than mine because it bigger or faster is a failing that you're just going to have to live with in life.

Personally, I think your 1000R is overweight, ugly, bulky (ie too wide between the legs/knees) soul-less, and sounds horrible in comparison to my 848. My bike is also 100% stock.

But, ultimately, that's my opinion.
I've test ridden your bike, and I bought mine instead.
I'm just as happy with my purchase as you are with yours.

I have always preferred twin cylinder engines bikes, and Honda does not currently offer any twin cylinder large displacement sport bikes in the US market. If you didn't notice the other bike in my signature, Its a Honda Hawk GT, which also is a twin cylinder sports bike. Smaller, less powerful, and way more vibrations from it than the Ducati. Its also older, and has had to have many more parts replaced on it to keep it running.

As for Economy with my Ducati, I average anywhere between 42 and 48 mpg on my trips to and from work.

What type of gas mileage do you get on your Honda?

I love a company that can make a vehicle look as good as it drives / rides. You OBVIOUSLY can't appreciate that characteristic, and it shows.

Good luck to you trying to tear down my post.
No matter what you try, you can't take the smile off my face when I drive the Fiat, or ride the Ducati.

You sound like you could use a good smile.

BC.
 
Winter sales numbers are not all that meaningful for any car.
Also, the car was initially available only as a 5 spd, which closed out the majority of younger drivers who can't drive one.
We'll see how good my analytical capabilities are when gas prices head for $5.00/gal this summer.
I suspect that many lookers will become buyers.
Most people will buy small cars from Japanese, Korean or US makers, but some will find the little Fiat the perfect blend of economy and style.
Fiat need not match Civic or Corolla volume to consider this car a success.
If they were able to do so, the charm would be lost.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom

I hate Fiat because they have made a lot of cars really, really badly. If bypassing that [censored] for a Japanese makes me a lemming, then I plead guilty. I'd rather be a lemming and drive the most dependable cars ever made (Toyota/Honda) than to be a Monkey that ignores history, ignores reliability issues, and calls inferior design and performance "soul", "style", and "character". The so called emotion that is most often evoked by Fiat drivers is that of contempt, for having paid so much for a car exceedingly inferior to many other makes. I see too, that you ride a Ducati...how can you stand all that vibration? I drive a better and faster bike, a Honda 1000R, which is smooth as silk and shifts smoother too. You see, I prefer refinement, reliability, durability, longevity, economy over "soul", "style", and "character"...laughable terms, to be sure.



There you have it... this person has NEVER owned one, never known anyone who owned one, and is simply going off what the past history on the internet says.

I'm guessing that this person could be a stealth marketer....maybe for the competition. Yeah I think so.
whistle.gif


Again since you carefully IGNORED my previous post I will reiterate it. The 500 has been rated by owners in Europe and a quality product with a solid reliability record, and over there it has been out for years now. Even in the US owners are reporting that the US spec car is developing a similar reliability record.
smirk.gif
 
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Funny everything old becomes new again. I miss my Chevy Sprint.

As for sales, I only see women buy this car and usually very young like high school, first year of driving young. So much for marketing. It will not be no suceess like the BMW Mini. That is for sure.
 
Fiat cars were always better regarded in Europe than they were in this country.
The US 500s are really too new to have established any meaningful track record.
Still, Fiat knows that this is the toughest auto market in the world, so I doubt that they would be selling this car in this country unless they had confidence in it.
This car is not intended to be a quick money maker.
Rather, this car is intended to establish Fiat as a serious marque in this market, while giving us some hint of Chrysler's future product direction, which will involve more small cars and fewer large ones.
Finally, I've often wondered whether Fiat's past record in this country was as much due to a weak dealer network as it was to any lack of durability in the cars themselves.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: lovcom
I see too, that you ride a Ducati...how can you stand all that vibration? I drive a better and faster bike, a Honda 1000R, which is smooth as silk and shifts smoother too. You see, I prefer refinement, reliability, durability, longevity, economy over "soul", "style", and "character"...laughable terms, to be sure.


I'm sorry...

What vibration are you talking about on my 848?
I have nearly 8k miles on mine, and have yet to run into this "vibration" that you talk about. Nor the unreliability, or the non-smooth shifting, or anything else you seem to have made up about my Italian vehicle.

Thinking your bike is somehow better than mine because it bigger or faster is a failing that you're just going to have to live with in life.

Personally, I think your 1000R is overweight, ugly, bulky (ie too wide between the legs/knees) soul-less, and sounds horrible in comparison to my 848. My bike is also 100% stock.

But, ultimately, that's my opinion.
I've test ridden your bike, and I bought mine instead.
I'm just as happy with my purchase as you are with yours.

I have always preferred twin cylinder engines bikes, and Honda does not currently offer any twin cylinder large displacement sport bikes in the US market. If you didn't notice the other bike in my signature, Its a Honda Hawk GT, which also is a twin cylinder sports bike. Smaller, less powerful, and way more vibrations from it than the Ducati. Its also older, and has had to have many more parts replaced on it to keep it running.


Vibration?
Never noticed problematic vibration on a Ducati. It's got a nice re-assuring steady "thrum" for lack of a better word but it is not intrusive or hand or foot numbing.
Before the SV650 and Hawk GT, there was the Yamaha Vision. I had one. It probably actually vibrated less than my GPz550. It wasn't as fast as my GPz but it was pretty far from slow. On a long road trip, I would take the Vision over a KZ, LTD, CSR, Spectre or GPz550.

My problem with Ducati is the intensive maintenance.

"You have to take the engine out to adjust the valves?"
shocked.gif

"No, it's just the easiest way to do it."
 
I test drove Sport version with stick for about 2 hours. Really liked it. How it drives, materials used, it is not cheap cr@ppy plastic and tin can cars. Now I really want Abarth...
Quote:
I hate Fiat because they have made a lot of cars really, really badly. If bypassing that [censored] for a Japanese makes me a lemming, then I plead guilty. I'd rather be a lemming and drive the most dependable cars ever made (Toyota/Honda) than to be a Monkey that ignores history, ignores reliability issues, and calls inferior design and performance "soul", "style", and "character". The so called emotion that is most often evoked by Fiat drivers is that of contempt, for having paid so much for a car exceedingly inferior to many other makes.

Lets don't forget that FIAT basically=Alfa Romeo=Ferrari. and they are definitely made really really badly ad you said, LOL.
500 series is iconic car first of all, like Bug, Mustang and Skyline, it will always find it's fans.
Unfortunate Honda/Toyota looks much [censored] than same models in Europe. Compare civics for example.
 
What my previously mentioned US market Strada looked like (before it got dented up)

strada006.jpg


Well...sort of. Mine had less metallic/more orange yellow kind of color, stamped steel wheels with plain little hub covers and the previously mentioned horrid seat fabric.

Even with the previous irresponsible "whiskey dent" driver it didn't smoke, started easily, got good gas mileage, and did it's best impersonation of a rally car when running around on gravel roads.
 
Nice ride spazdog!

I almost bought a Strada when I was shopping around for a Rabbit.

I believe that FIAT even offered an Abarth version of the Strada (Ritmo) in Europe, although I have never seen a pic or review of one. Anyone have a link?
 
Most bad [censored] Factory produced Fiat 500 as of today

They also need to bring that to US
 
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Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

Good luck to you trying to tear down my post.
No matter what you try, you can't take the smile off my face when I drive the Fiat, or ride the Ducati.

You sound like you could use a good smile.




Just one problem: trolls don't smile- although they do revel in their miserable pedestrian existence...
 
Originally Posted By: css9450
Best thread ever!!!!


It certainly has morphed into a much bigger topic than I ever thought it would....
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

My problem with Ducati is the intensive maintenance.

"You have to take the engine out to adjust the valves?"
shocked.gif

"No, it's just the easiest way to do it."



Honestly, I work on my Ducati (848), and my gf's Ducati (696), and my best friend's Ducati (S2R1000), and I don't really find the maintenance all that difficult.

Every 7500 miles, I open up the valve covers or valve ports, take a few clearance measurements, scribble them down on a piece of paper, compare the clearance levels against the book values, and if I need to, pop out a retaining clip, slide the rocker to the side, and swap a shim. That's the procedure for the S2R and the 696. The 848 is easier to measure all the clearances, but I have to unbolt the cams to get to the shims.

After the valve clearance check, I tighten up the belt tolerance. Loosen two bolts, push the belt tensioners, and retighten. Not that hard.

I love doing it, so its not a problem for me, unlike for people who don't like working on anything themselves, so they then have to make an appointment with their dealer, drop the bike off, get a ride back home, wait who knows how long to get the call that their bike is ready to be picked up, get a lift back to the dealer, have the dealer then rifle through their wallet for huge amounts of money, and then they ride off feeling funny when they sit down. Not to mention hope that the dealer actually did the work correctly.

This guy sounds exactly like the type of person who reads the internet so other people can make up his mind about something for him, instead of him himself going out and having an actual experience with said thing directly.

BC.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

My problem with Ducati is the intensive maintenance.

"You have to take the engine out to adjust the valves?"
shocked.gif

"No, it's just the easiest way to do it."



Honestly, I work on my Ducati (848), and my gf's Ducati (696), and my best friend's Ducati (S2R1000), and I don't really find the maintenance all that difficult.

Every 7500 miles, I open up the valve covers or valve ports, take a few clearance measurements, scribble them down on a piece of paper, compare the clearance levels against the book values, and if I need to, pop out a retaining clip, slide the rocker to the side, and swap a shim. That's the procedure for the S2R and the 696. The 848 is easier to measure all the clearances, but I have to unbolt the cams to get to the shims.

After the valve clearance check, I tighten up the belt tolerance. Loosen two bolts, push the belt tensioners, and retighten. Not that hard.

I love doing it, so its not a problem for me, unlike for people who don't like working on anything themselves, so they then have to make an appointment with their dealer, drop the bike off, get a ride back home, wait who knows how long to get the call that their bike is ready to be picked up, get a lift back to the dealer, have the dealer then rifle through their wallet for huge amounts of money, and then they ride off feeling funny when they sit down. Not to mention hope that the dealer actually did the work correctly.

This guy sounds exactly like the type of person who reads the internet so other people can make up his mind about something for him, instead of him himself going out and having an actual experience with said thing directly.

BC.


To be fair, my experience was with older Ducatis.
There were two in our group. The Paso's owner paid the dealer whatever he wanted. The 851's owner handled it himself and if not for him I probably still wouldn't understand Desmodromic valve actuation. But he insisted that removing the engine was the "easy" way to do it. Otherwise, you removed the head and did the adjustment on the bench.

The Paso was kinda'
21.gif
meh.... The 851 was a little bunched up between seat and pegs and a little long to the handlebars but when I had the fortune of riding it, the semi-bad ergos didn't matter. You didn't think about that because everything else was good.

But back on the vibration. I had to put heavy bar end weights on the ends of my GSX-R's clip-ons to quell the high frequency vibes of the 4 cyl. The V-twin needed no such weights.
 
The only way to know how good a car is would be to see 7 years into the future.

Numerous cars are very nice brand new, and then become a nightmare afterwards.

Just look at the MKIV Jetta for an example.
 
Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
Fiat needs to re-examine their marketing technique. I've seen the commercials, and the car was the LAST thing I noticed. How much for the driver?
Like the saying goes....if you have to ask.......
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 91344George
I don't call a rag like C&D, the last word on anything.

Considering all the ad dollars from the manufacturers you can't rule out the "possibility" of payola. But I agree that the Mazda 2 is much better than the Fit. It just doesn't have the Honda name on it.


Not the last word. Just one collection of opinions.

I still give them credit because, as far as I can remember, my impression of every car I've ever driven has jived with that of C&D. Until I have a contradictory experience, or they stop actually criticizing vehicles like almost every other automotive publication, I'll keep reading. But I did see some evidence of influence or payola in one of their 10-Best lists, when they gave the CTS a spot instead of the G35 or G37 even though the Infiniti easily beat it on the last comparison test.
 
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