Fiat 500 looks like a thimble on wheels...

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
And you base your estimate of what the car "should" get upon what?
I don't know about you, but I'd find 38 highway to be pretty good.
Isn't that a whole lot better than what you're now driving?
Why is that a problem?
Because in your opinion, the car should get even better mileage?
Because your opinion is also that cars could once typically beat their EPA mileage ratings, but now, for some unexplained reason, can't?
From my point of view, the Fiat 500 is an attractive and fun to drive car that would work out just fine as a daily driver.
The fact that it delivers exceptionally good fuel economy is icing on the cake.
That somebody thinks it should deliver even better fuel economy is irrelevant.


My current vehicle is a Corolla which gets 38 MPG. Considering my Corolla is bigger and heavier than the 500, the 500 should get considerably better mileage. That isn't what I think, it's physics.

 

[wander2039]

I've seen a few running around here in KC all I'll say is they make my Festiva look huge!! The Festiva is taller, wider and longer. Hopefully they're more refined.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
That may be true for some, but some of us prefer the fun of driving a smaller car.


As do I. Unfortunately for Fiat, they're competing with the better handling, better performing, sportier-looking Mini. If Fiat really expected to sell a car based on it being fun to drive, they wouldn't have included non-defeatable stability control.

 

[fdcg27]

The 500 is aimed at a particular target market.
If it doesn't appeal to you, you aren't part of that market.
The 500 is not intended as a fuel economy special.
Rather, it is intended to appeal to a market looking for style and refined driving manners in a car that also offers really good fuel economy.
A Corolla is an appliance.
The 500 is intended to be a little more than that.
Why anyone would gripe about a stylish, fun and reasonably priced car that also offers good fuel economy, IDK.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
It's likely more fun to drive . . . than the Fit . . .


Probably not. Car and Driver's latest opinion on each:

Fit

Highs:
No-secrets steering, amazing cargo capacity, fun shifter, airy cockpit.
Lows:
Wants a sixth gear, buzzy at freeway speeds, could do with some interior texture upgrades.
Verdict:
Since 2006, Honda’s been the judge, jury, and prosecutor in this segment.

500

Highs:
Smart price, retro chic looks, Italian breeding.
Lows:
Scant headroom, drab interior, counterintuitive handling characteristics.
Verdict:
Just like a runway model in Milano: Looks outweigh performance.

For pure driving fun in an inexpensive subcompact, the Mazda2 seems to be the best choice.

Highs:
Low curb weight, Miata-style driving fun, value priced.
Lows:
Low on features, soft seat cushion, feels cheap over bumps.
Verdict:
A featherweight, but no lightweight.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: jcwit


That little Fiat will not even hold a hard side rifle case!


You're doing it wrong.

If I can fit a rifle case in my former Suzuki Swift, I'm fairly certain a Fiat 500 will fit one too

The cargo area of my PT looks small too. Looks are deceiving. And by the time I take the back seats out, I've got as much cargo area as some SUVs


Tell me all about it, I owned 2 Geo Metro's.

 

[chrome]

Kerb weight for the Fiat 500 is 2,363 lbs (5 speed)
Kerb weight for the Yaris is 2,295 lbs (5 speed).

EPA for Fiat 500 is 30/38 mpg.
EPA for Yaris is also 30/38 mpg.

Although the Fiat is smaller physically, it actually weighs more, yet still achieves the same EPA as the Yaris.

 

[91344George]

I don't call a rag like C&D, the last word on anything.

Considering all the ad dollars from the manufacturers you can't rule out the "possibility" of payola. But I agree that the Mazda 2 is much better than the Fit. It just doesn't have the Honda name on it.

 

[rslifkin]

The problem with gas mileage on the super-small cars is this: when a car is that small, it's hard to maintain good aerodynamics. However, that's not a huge issue, as they're not meant to see much highway time. It's the city mpg that matters (although some of these should be better in that department).

 

[fdcg27]

That's fine, but most of the really savvy people have left the magazine over the past ten years or so, so I'm not sure that I'd give much weight to anything written in it.
I'd be more inclined to pay attention to someone who actually owns a Fit.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The 500 is aimed at a particular target market.
If it doesn't appeal to you, you aren't part of that market.
The 500 is not intended as a fuel economy special.
Rather, it is intended to appeal to a market looking for style and refined driving manners in a car that also offers really good fuel economy.
A Corolla is an appliance.
The 500 is intended to be a little more than that.
Why anyone would gripe about a stylish, fun and reasonably priced car that also offers good fuel economy, IDK.

Agree!
I think that 'Hits the nail on the head'
The 500 would not suit my needs, but I DO know someone that is interested. They work and live in the city, their townhouse is small with a small garage. They use the car when weather is not suitable to ride their Bicycle (the darn bicycle cost more than some cars I've owned). The car will carry a Laptop and sometimes the wife. Evenings they may go out for a meal, or do a little shopping. Weekends the may Fly (air miles) or rent (on points) any vehicle that suits there needs at the time.
Mileage is not 'that' important as they don't cover that many miles.
They want something 'fun' to drive in an urban environment.
Style (Image, or some uniqueness) is important.

I believe there are many people out there like this.
Fiat are re-entering the North American market, they don't want to be seen as 'cheap' or a 'Budget' marque.
The NA car buyer is changing, the cars they buy, need to change as well. The 500 just fit one niche.

 

[Nick R]

At first I didn't see many fiat 500s up here, but they are growing in popularity, I'm starting to see quite a few. When we were in niagara falls last august, they were EVERYWHERE.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The 500 is aimed at a particular target market.
If it doesn't appeal to you, you aren't part of that market.
The 500 is not intended as a fuel economy special.
Rather, it is intended to appeal to a market looking for style and refined driving manners in a car that also offers really good fuel economy.
A Corolla is an appliance.
The 500 is intended to be a little more than that.
Why anyone would gripe about a stylish, fun and reasonably priced car that also offers good fuel economy, IDK.

Agree!
I think that 'Hits the nail on the head'
The 500 would not suit my needs, but I DO know someone that is interested. They work and live in the city, their townhouse is small with a small garage. They use the car when weather is not suitable to ride their Bicycle (the darn bicycle cost more than some cars I've owned). The car will carry a Laptop and sometimes the wife. Evenings they may go out for a meal, or do a little shopping. Weekends the may Fly (air miles) or rent (on points) any vehicle that suits there needs at the time.
Mileage is not 'that' important as they don't cover that many miles.
They want something 'fun' to drive in an urban environment.
Style (Image, or some uniqueness) is important.

I believe there are many people out there like this.
Fiat are re-entering the North American market, they don't want to be seen as 'cheap' or a 'Budget' marque.
The NA car buyer is changing, the cars they buy, need to change as well. The 500 just fit one niche.


The sales of the NA Fiat 500 is in the toilet, so so much for your analysis capabilities. The fact is, Fiat has a horrible reputation here in the US because they made [censored] cars the first time that they were in the US. Their [censored] engines often started to burn oil only after 15,000 miles, and I mean badly. I doubt this bad reputation can be overcome by even today's young buyers.

Too many of us 30+ years of age that remember, that can still breath that Fiat Blue smoke. Junk, is what they make.

Only a fool would bypass much better cars, cars that are exceedingly better in quality, MPG, offer more space, better value, better value, better value, and something most of you guys have forgotten: Reliability!

And enough this this "style" Bool Sheet...the fact is, ALL cars have a style, so stop with this irrational thinking that only an Italian car has it. Every single small car has style; it's a question of what you like, what your subjective tastes are.

Horrible Sales --->: http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1068643_2012-fiat-500-sales-are-on-the-skids-will-it-survive

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: lovcom


Too many of us 30+ years of age that remember, that can still breath that Fiat Blue smoke. Junk, is what they make.
Reliability!



Actually very few 30 year olds would remember ANYTHING about FIAT if they are Americans, you could say the same about most 40 year olds as well. You have to be nearly 50 to have ANY recollection of them if you are solely speaking about the USA. They up and left during the early 80s.

Change happens and the FIAT you might remember ( I don't know how you can if you are 30) is NOT the FIAT that exists today, actually the quality is very good if not excellent and reports from Europe suggest that the 500 is very reliable compared to most of the competition on par with several Japanese brands! US buyers are also saying that their cars are generally trouble free.

The FIAT Cinquecento is a great car all around the problem is that Chrysler priced it too high..that is the problem. Hopefully the price will be adjusted down...It should be around 13k-14k...

I'm definitely interested in the Abarth model coming soon it is the reincarnated old MKII VW Golf GTI in modern terms, which is a great thing.

But again the price is too high it should be about 16-17 grand or so max...no where near the 20+ they want for it.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: lovcom


Too many of us 30+ years of age that remember, that can still breath that Fiat Blue smoke. Junk, is what they make.
Reliability!



Actually very few 30 year olds would remember ANYTHING about FIAT if they are Americans, you could say the same about most 40 year olds as well. You have to be nearly 50 to have ANY recollection of them if you are solely speaking about the USA. They up and left during the early 80s.

Change happens and the FIAT you might remember ( I don't know how you can if you are 30) is NOT the FIAT that exists today, actually the quality is very good if not excellent and reports from Europe suggest that the 500 is very reliable compared to most of the competition on par with several Japanese brands! US buyers are also saying that their cars are generally trouble free.

The FIAT Cinquecento is a great car all around the problem is that Chrysler priced it too high..that is the problem. Hopefully the price will be adjusted down...It should be around 13k-14k...

I'm definitely interested in the Abarth model coming soon it is the reincarnated old MKII VW Golf GTI in modern terms, which is a great thing.

But again the price is too high it should be about 16-17 grand or so max...no where near the 20+ they want for it.


Nope, not so and on many accounts.

First off those 30+ aged folks have parents that were old enough and around to know just how sheety Fiats in the USA where. Those parents often influence their children.

2ndly, the Euro car press is NOTORIOUS about pumping up the goodness of European cars. Over there they say Fiat, BMW, and Mercedes are grear cars. Yet over here ConsumerReports says they are mostly [censored], and below even Korean brands for reliability.

And how can you argue with the abismal sales performance of the Fiat 500 in the USA?!? Read the numbers...the sales are in the toilet!

If you think today's Fiat is on par with Honda and Toyota, you are being less then honest and you're just a fanboy for the Fiat brand. I guess you have been breathing the blue smoke to long

 

[rationull]

This is a wonderful debate. Clearly, the most important thing to take into consideration when making a value judgment on a car is the sales numbers.

I mean, who needs to have their own opinions when you can just rely on the sophisticated tastes of the masses of car buyers?

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: 91344George

Actually very few 30 year olds would remember ANYTHING about FIAT if they are Americans, you could say the same about most 40 year olds as well. You have to be nearly 50 to have ANY recollection of them if you are solely speaking about the USA. They up and left during the early 80s.
...


I'm 43 and I've had 3 FIATs....well 2 FIATs and an '82 Bertone. It didn't say FIAT anywhere on the exterior.

None of them smoked. The X1/9s had bad transmissions. The Strada (Ritmo ROTW) was actually mechanically a good car. It was rather Spartan and had weird looking orange and brown seat fabrics....not exactly the pinnicle of Italian style (that would be the red leather seats in the Bertone) It was an odd looking car too with it's round black plastic door handles, afterthought US 5 mph bumpers, etc...but it was honestly as good as any Mitsubishi Colt or Isuzu I-Mark. Better than my Chevette by a large measure.

It handled as well as any VW Rabbit from that time. Probably better than the Pennsylvania made Rabbits which were allegedly softer and dumbed down for the US market. Power was non-existant but it was non-existant in my X1/9s as well.

It was covered in "whiskey dents" from the previous owner and when I discovered the transmission would not directly bolt in to my Bertone (shifter linkage was on the wrong side) I let it go cheap. Kinda wish I still had it. It was funky and fun.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: rationull
This is a wonderful debate. Clearly, the most important thing to take into consideration when making a value judgment on a car is the sales numbers.

I mean, who needs to have their own opinions when you can just rely on the sophisticated tastes of the masses of car buyers?


Those that ignore history are condemned to buy it.

Sales numbers are not everything, but they cannot be ignored eithee, and are one of a many factors.

You cannot have "your own opinion" in a vacuum...a wise man will see what many others have experienced before plopping his sheckels on the table.

 

[bladecutter]

Wow, there's a whole slew of garbage posts in this thread.

A certain someone just seems to absolutely hate Fiat as a company, and won't get past the fact that every single car company has improved in product quality since 1977, and Fiat is among that list.

First off, the engines are built in Michigan, by hard working American workers. The automatic transmission is built in Japan, by hard working Japanese workers. The manual transmission is built in Italy, by a whole bunch of hard working Italian workers. The car is assembled in Mexico, by hard working Mexican workers. All the other components are a mish-mash of North American and South American parts.

I'm guessing that since you hate Fiat so much, you either owned one, and it left you penniless, and stuck on the side of the road, or you lost a past love to someone who owned a Fiat. I can't see you being so Anti-Fiat without one of those two experiences.

I actually have one of these fine cars parked in my driveway every single night, as it belongs to my gf. In fact, I drove it the 25 miles to work on the highway today. It clicked 4500 miles during the drive, too.

I'm going to share a secret with you that you just can't comprehend:

I thank Fiat very much that the 500 ISN'T a Corolla, a Yaris, or an Echo every time I get to drive it, or ride in it.

The car has personality, which is something that not only does every single vehicle in the Toyota lineup seriously lacking, but a good portion of the owners of said Toyota's also seem to lack.

An Italian car, just like Italian vehicles, are designed to bring out emotions in the owner and operator of the vehicle. If you can't understand this, just don't buy, rent, or test drive one, ever.

Its a fun little drivers car, and who cares if it doesn't offer the same space and utility as a Toyota RAV 4? Not me, and certainly not my gf.

If you think it looks like a thimble, good for you.
At least it doesn't look like every other compact car that's running around loose in this country.

If it doesn't sell in the tens of thousand every month because all the lemmings just want an appliance to get to and from work, that's even better, as you can't put a true price on being unique in a world surrounded by brain dead lemmings driving down the road spending more time looking at their iPhone than concentrating on what's around them in traffic.

Oh, and a quick note to end this whole thing:

Our car gets well over 38 mph on the highway here in Colorado.

Have a nice boring life.

BC.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
An Italian car, just like Italian vehicles, are designed to bring out emotions in the owner and operator of the vehicle.

And judging by the many responses in this thread, it brings out a lot of emotions in everyone else as well.

Personally, I do agree that the car has its niche. It's not for everyone, but that's perfectly fine.