Federal EV tax credit set to end completely September 30th

[alarmguy]

…. Colorado is one of the cheaper states for electricity. Wouldn't an ev on the east coast be fairly expensive to charge at home?

No, I’m on the most east of the east coast in NC but it would help when talking rates if you could post an actual bill. I have posted many.

Our rate 24 hours a day is 10 cents a kWh.
But we also need to know the actual payment because that is higher after taxes etc. so if I use very little electricity my cost with taxes etc can be 17 cents kWh actual payment.
However if I had an EV the cost to charge it would be closer to that 10 cents since some costs of the bill are fixed I think. Sales tax isn’t included.

So when talking rates on a national level we need the actual payment divided by kWh for the true cost. I consider my electric dirt cheap. Also my previous home in SC was however before that born raised and most my adult life on Long Island NY those rates were high yet still less than train wreck CA electric rates

 

[alarmguy]

Your revisionist history.

The initial EV tax credit for 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer dried up for Tesla about 2016. Tesla still dominated the EV market against all competition which still qualified for the Federal tax credit.

The EV tax credit didn't reappear for Tesla until Biden. Yet for some reason you can not explain Tesla did very well before 2021.

Tesla's current "slump" is just customers waiting for the updated Model Y.

Just for the record Tesla never turned a real profit until 2022. Lost money almost every year of existence before that. Tiny profit in 2021 due to carbon credits and even the following year carbon credits played a role. Without China they would have never turned a profit.
Since then they continue to struggle but with the limited amount of cars they sell in the USA I don’t think they can do much worse losing the credit (maybe)

Right now they are about 10th place in the USA and I don’t think they ever did better than 7th place

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/sales-report.html

 

[alarmguy]

…

Remember, this hurts other EV companies far more, as their EV business units deliver negative margins.

I think that goes for Tesla USA sales. Without China Tesla is not profitable so to say it hurts others more I would question your statement of “far more”

It’s hard to do being Tesla hides their numbers unlike the other 9 top automakers (Btw Tesla is #10 in USA sales and in the toilet even far worse this year 1st quarter. Posted in the link above in post #82

Interesting times! I can’t wait for the credit repeal!!!! Finally we will know the truth about EVs in the USA!

Peace ! Happy 4th!

 

[Torrid]

That is the wrong way to calculate cost to operate. Do it $/mile.

My Model Y is using less than 0.25 kWh/mile from the grid according to TeslaFi.com. So at your $0.17/kWh it is $0.0425/mile. If gasoline is $3.00/gallon then one has to get 70 MPG to break even.

That was by mile for my driving initially. I just blew it up for the full year.

Tesla - $0.048
GTI - $0.114 (premium)
F150 - $0.177

 

[4WD]

Ain't gonna happen; the world runs on oil, and big oil is far too powerful.

Yeah, barely keeping up with fixed energy - takes oil to make “green” stuff - and have a look:

 

[John105]

No, I’m on the most east of the east coast in NC but it would help when talking rates if you could post an actual bill. I have posted many.

Our rate 24 hours a day is 10 cents a kWh.
But we also need to know the actual payment because that is higher after taxes etc. so if I use very little electricity my cost with taxes etc can be 17 cents kWh actual payment.
However if I had an EV the cost to charge it would be closer to that 10 cents since some costs of the bill are fixed I think. Sales tax isn’t included.

So when talking rates on a national level we need the actual payment divided by kWh for the true cost. I consider my electric dirt cheap. Also my previous home in SC was however before that born raised and most my adult life on Long Island NY those rates were high yet still less than train wreck CA electric rates

Agree because in PA we always discuss the supplier portion. We have to shop for it. It's been as low as 4 cents and as high as 11 cents. There is a delivery portion as well which is an additional 9.7 cents which we cannot shop for nor change, it's PECO.

So the lowest overall oprice is 13.7 and the highest almost 21 cents (right now it's about 20 at best). Then there are improvement fees. It's a K&P skit whenever the local utility is repairing something, vs. when a contractor is doing the same (maybe 1/5 the number of men).

 

[edyvw]

Your revisionist history.

The initial EV tax credit for 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer dried up for Tesla about 2016. Tesla still dominated the EV market against all competition which still qualified for the Federal tax credit.

The EV tax credit didn't reappear for Tesla until Biden. Yet for some reason you can not explain Tesla did very well before 2021.

Tesla's current "slump" is just customers waiting for the updated Model Y.

Customers waiting for Y?
It is July not January. That was same argument in January: people waiting Y.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...fth-month-ev-rivals-gain-momentum-2025-06-25/

 

[Mechanician]

Because I can do my 16 hr straight trips and stop once for gas and not worry a bit about it... plus here charging places are not plentiful if I needed to use any. They don't get plentiful for 50 to 60 miles away

The thing someone driving an EV in Cali doesn't consider, is the Great White North. An EV in the summer vs an EV in the frozen tundra, is what discourages many people away from them.
BTW - watch how the mileage changes on your hybrid in the cold - it's pretty dramatic, but worth the cost over an EV's problems.

 

[loneryder]

Please list those subsidies for us.

Space X, satellites, AI R&D, Satellite internet and whatever other companies he has going.

 

[Zee09]

The thing someone driving an EV in Cali doesn't consider, is the Great White North. An EV in the summer vs an EV in the frozen tundra, is what discourages many people away from them.
BTW - watch how the mileage changes on your hybrid in the cold - it's pretty dramatic, but worth the cost over an EV's problems.

I don't see much of a hit at all in my 20 years of hybrid use although I do agree. On older systems using heated seats instead of the Hvac solved many issues for the cheapskates... My Maverick dropped little in the winter and with minimal remote start use was great.

 

[alarmguy]

Space X, satellites, AI R&D, Satellite internet and whatever other companies he has going.

To be fair, Elons private industries along with his partners and private investors have nothing to do with Tesla of which Musk is an employee. (CEO)

So whatever our government gives towards those private industries I am SURE is far more cost effective than if NASA did it themselves.

I know it sounds confusing but even the MEDIA seems clueless as it lists Tesla as a company Musk owns. GEEZ, we are doomed as a nation for those who count on the media to get anything right.

HE DOESNT OWN TESLA but you can imagine Joe public thinking he does based on stories like this.
https://247wallst.com/investing/2023/10/27/heres-every-company-elon-musk-owns/

 

[Vercingetorix]

The thing someone driving an EV in Cali doesn't consider, is the Great White North. An EV in the summer vs an EV in the frozen tundra, is what discourages many people away from them.
BTW - watch how the mileage changes on your hybrid in the cold - it's pretty dramatic, but worth the cost over an EV's problems.

60% of new car sales in Iceland are electric. They are second behind Norway. They don’t seem to be discouraged by cold weather.

 

[SC Maintenance]

60% of new car sales in Iceland are electric. They are second behind Norway. They don’t seem to be discouraged by cold weather.

Iceland makes sense because the vast majority of the population lives in a very concentrated area along with cheap electricity relative to gasoline which has to be shipped in. Iceland uses thermopower for electricity. It was so cheap that it at one point had the most bitcoin mining farms - no idea if they still are.

EV's are not a one size fits all. They work in some places, not in others.

 

[Vercingetorix]

They work in some places, not in others.

They work in the Great White North. Q.E.D.

 

[SC Maintenance]

They work in the Great White North. Q.E.D.

Blanket statement not really correct. Range diminishes quite a bit with low temp, and infrastructure is still the problem. Where I grew up on the Northern great plains no one owns one, or wants one.

 

[walterjay]

I do like hybrids. That may be on the list if I ever purchase another car.

There are also additional costs for an EV. You have to pay an EV tax in many areas. Tires can be pricey. Just this week a relative was coming home from overseas. They had contracted to be picked up and driven home. The person to pick them up had a Tesla. At the last minute near midnight they received a text. Tesla on roadside of 95 waiting for a tow. Blown tire. No tire readily available for his Tesla. Tesla guy lost three ways. It was about an 80 mile round trip for him.

No spare?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Because I can do my 16 hr straight trips and stop once for gas and not worry a bit about it... plus here charging places are not plentiful if I needed to use any. They don't get plentiful for 50 to 60 miles away

Just for fun, what are the start and end points in your 16 hour jaunts? Are they regular trips? If so, your use case is obviously not a fit for an EV. One of the reasons an EV works for me is, if I am going that far I am jumping on Southwest Air.

The 50 mile away fact is a non-factor unless you don't charge at home.
By the way, IMO what you want is part of a use case... And your Accord mileage numbers are stunning.

 

[IveBeenRued]

Blanket statement not really correct. Range diminishes quite a bit with low temp, and infrastructure is still the problem. Where I grew up on the Northern great plains no one owns one, or wants one.

I’m from South Dakota. Teslas are way more common than you’d realize up in the Dakotas. The company invested in plenty of supercharging infrastructure along the interstates. There is a supercharging station every 50 miles along interstates 90, 94, and 29. They practically outnumber giant RVs nowadays during the tourist season because people like to camp on their Teslas it seems.

 

[Zee09]

Just for fun, what are the start and end points in your 16 hour jaunts? Are they regular trips? If so, your use case is obviously not a fit for an EV. One of the reasons an EV works for me is, if I am going that far I am jumping on Southwest Air.

The 50 mile away fact is a non-factor unless you don't charge at home.
By the way, IMO what you want is part of a use case... And your Accord mileage numbers are stunning.

Not regular but say 21921 zip to 32614 and the same but 34480...
MD to Fl........

Daily trips maybe 60 to 80 miles a day

I did have an Uber Ride in a Model S and i liked it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Not regular but say 21921 zip to 32614 and the same but 34480...
MD to Fl........

Daily trips maybe 60 to 80 miles a day

I did have an Uber Ride in a Model S and i liked it.

Here's the Tesla route planner from Maryland to Florida.
Of course it depends on your speed, car range, etc.

The last time our M3P was on a Supercharger was from Los Gatos to Sac for a baby shower. On the return trip, we drove to SFO (or was it Oakland?) to drop someone for their flight, stopped at a Starbucks for a quick charge and pick up a drink, then home. About 350 miles all in. Can not do that on a single charge. Your Accord would make it no sweat, right?