Federal EV tax credit set to end completely September 30th

[SC Maintenance]

The tax breaks oil companies get to produce gasoline which is $300-$400 billion a year.

Can you point me to one, because I cannot find it. There was the opportunity to fully amortize some natural gas facilities, but that is because the government wanted it to make Electricity. Still its not a tax break, they just get to take the capital write off all at once, and every company gets to do the same for investments just over longer time. And in the end it is about electricity not transportation energy.

 

[E365]

A massive gift to the Chinese auto industry.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Not to mention the Navy patrolling the Strait of Hormuz... We are talking trillion$
The world runs on oil; what's a poor boy to do?

Protecting the middle East was 100% about preserving the US dollar after Nixon and the US government got way over their ski's printing dollars and France demanded their gold back. Nixon closed the Gold Window and in order to prevent dollar freefall Nixon cut a deal with the Saudis to demand payment in dollars for their oil - aka the petrodollar. Otherwise the US dollar would have kept falling and long since failed.

Your argument is incorrect. If it was accurate there would not have been an energy crunch again in the late 70's.

 

[edyvw]

This is a giveaway to China.
OK, yes, IMO, EV's are hair dryers etc. but let's be realistic, they are future.
Now, we can prop oil industry by various subsidies, farmers with mandatory ethanol requirements, which is using even more energy, or we can also subsidize EV's. No major shift in the economy was possible without the big intervention of the government.
Here is where the problem is, China is subsidizing their EV's left and right. EV"s are MUCH easier to make. No necessary know-how in ICE building etc. They simply jumped directly to EV and they are pushing it hard. Therefore, BYD is here. What are we doing? Taking subsidies from EV's (this is not only Tesla) while pushing oil industry. And that is fine. People need jobs, etc. But this is an absolute giveaway to China. Of course, the administration will change, subsidies will be back, but we will lose 4-8 years to BYD.
And then, we can blame unions again.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Can you point me to one, because I cannot find it. There was the opportunity to fully amortize some natural gas facilities, but that is because the government wanted it to make Electricity. Still its not a tax break, they just get to take the capital write off all at once, and every company gets to do the same.

Did you Google this? Here's one article.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Protecting the middle East was 100% about preserving the US dollar after Nixon and the US government got way over their ski's printing dollars and France demanded their gold back. Nixon closed the Gold Window and in order to prevent dollar freefall Nixon cut a deal with the Saudis to demand payment in dollars for their oil - aka the petrodollar. Otherwise the US dollar would have kept falling and long since failed.

Your argument is incorrect. If it was accurate there would not have been an energy crunch again in the late 70's.

The US Navy patrols the Strait of Hormuz to ensure the free flow of oil and to deter potential disruptions to global energy supplies, as the strait is a vital chokepoint for global oil trade.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Had I not retired recently I would probably want to rush out and buy an EV while that tax incentives are still there. It seems that the ideal solution for a retired couple would be a pure EV for most local driving and a PHEV for road trips. Both of our cars have low milage so this won't be in the cards for at leat 3-5 years.

I must confess that it seems rather odd to change a tax credit in the middle of a tax year.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The US Navy patrols the Strait of Hormuz to ensure the free flow of oil and to deter potential disruptions to global energy supplies, as the strait is a vital chokepoint for global oil trade.

And why do we continue now that we don't need the oil?

And why are we off attacking countries unfriendly to Saudi, when Saudi a couple years ago was joining the BRIC's and discussing not taking US dollars for oil and suddenly were friends again?

If it does keep oil price down its happenstance. The entire thing is about protecting the US dollar global reserve status. Go plot the DXY vs varios geo events and it will all become crystal clear.

 

[GrumpyCat]

With electric rates going crazy around here there may not be the EV savings like the article states. I don't see rates dropping anytime soon. With the need to beef up infrastructure it needs to be paid for.

Most of the country, most of the year, has a surplus generating capacity at night which is the natural time for an EV to charge. When the utility can produce power the cheapest and sell at greater profit to be able to pay for construction and expansion of "the grid" the media is making big hay claiming the sky is falling.

The USA has the most reliable electric power in the world. Creating a fiction of failure only serves to justify the government stepping in (harder) and making a mess out of things. The kind of messes we see in California and Texas where government "fixed" things.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Energy is priced on the margin, and given the US has not expanded the grid or production capacity in aggregate, every EV increases the price of energy. Electricity rates rise and it affects the energy cost for everyone's home and business, not just transportation.

Not at all. There is plenty of capacity at night to charge EVs. This produces easy revenue for the utility to finance construction and upgrades for daytime users.

However The Fool Government thinks EV drivers need "infrastructure" in the form of DCFC stations on every street corner Just Like Gas Stations to be accepted by the public. There is nothing more harmful to "the grid" than to add instantaneous 250kW loads to the grid as an EV pulls in to charge for 10-25 minutes. Night charging at home is 10kW or less, quite tame in comparison.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Did you Google this? Here's one article.

You have made this very same false argument link before yet you keep posting it. Its about being able to write off actual costs - like any company - but doing it faster so that oil companies do what the government wants - like harvest more nat gas for ELECTRICITY - because its not currently profitable.

However, here is EXACTLY the same sort of thing for solar energy components, wind energy components, battery components, inverters, and critical minerals from the very same source https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12809

Here is a tax credit for charging infrastructure: https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/ev-tax-credits

There are also all kinds of special fast depreciating tax treatment for EV R&D and EV batteries.

I won't even get into the carbon offset credits.

Please show me a actual Subsidy, not special tax treatment, which everyone seems to get and I am also fine with it going away? Still waiting.

 

[Rmay635703]

Can you point me to one, because I cannot find it. There was the opportunity to fully amortize some natural gas facilities, but that is because the government wanted it to make Electricity. Still its not a tax break, they just get to take the capital write off all at once, and every company gets to do the same for investments just over longer time. And in the end it is about electricity not transportation energy.

There are 2 ancient subsidies that never die and hundreds of location specific ones.

Nothing like being paid by the government to be in business

 

[GrumpyCat]

I think for this reason, Elon was actually for the getting rid of the subsidies, at least earlier on. I'm not sure which way he is going now though.

Elon Musk has opposed EV grants, tax credits, and tax deductions from the very start.

Those claiming Elon opposed the BBB due to deletion of EV tax credits are telling falsehoods.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Exactly. "Subsidising" $50k+ cars is completely ridiculous.

I'm so relieved my $49k Tesla Model Y Long Range meets your approval.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Elon Musk has opposed EV grants, tax credits, and tax deductions from the very start.

Those claiming Elon opposed the BBB due to deletion of EV tax credits are telling falsehoods.

Elon is well known for telling falsehoods. It’s easy to say one thing while actually wanting another.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Those claiming Elon opposed the BBB due to deletion of EV tax credits are telling falsehoods.

There is also billions allotted to spaceports, which I presume Msuk will get a large portion of, Bezos as well.

 

[SC Maintenance]

There are 2 ancient subsidies that never die and hundreds of location specific ones.

Nothing like being paid by the government to be in business

View attachment 287891

Sorry, I usually like your posts but this is the same false argument as above.

IDC's are simply allowing oil companies to deduct most of there peripheral drilling costs in the year they are incurred. If they drill a dry hole, it makes no sense to depreciate that over decades - the loss is the loss. In Shale the average well currently produces for 18 months even if they do produce, which also makes no sense to deduct over years.

Example - lets say I am a mechanic and I want to build a new repair shop. I can build the shop and write the build cost over some period of time. But after the shop is built I have a building I can use or rent or whatever. So I depreciate it.

However lets say an oil company drills a well into the ground to the tune of $4M, and its a dry hole. Its literally worthless. The IDC allows the oil company to write that expense off this year. Why - because there is no asset to depreciate. The money is in the wind. Its like expensing photo copier ink. Its not an additional subsidy - its simply recognizing the cost as an immediate expense.

Its not a subsidy. Its tax incentives to do what the government wants - just like all the green energy stuff I listed.

And your entire post is biased. It talks about it being a hinderance to the green energy industry and hinders the growth of renewables.

 

[edyvw]

Elon Musk has opposed EV grants, tax credits, and tax deductions from the very start.

Those claiming Elon opposed the BBB due to deletion of EV tax credits are telling falsehoods.

He did. But then Tesla sale in the meantime plummeted.

 

[Rmay635703]

Sorry, I usually like your posts but this is the same false argument as above.

IDC's are simply allowing oil companies to deduct most of there peripheral drilling costs in the year they are incurred. If they drill a dry hole, it makes no sense to depreciate that over decades - the loss is the loss. In Shale the average well currently produces for 18 months even if they do produce, which also makes no sense to deduct over years.

Example - lets say I am a mechanic and I want to build a new repair shop. I can build the shop and write the build cost over some period of time. But after the shop is built I have a building I can use or rent or whatever. So I depreciate it.

However lets say an oil company drills a well into the ground to the tune of $4M, and its a dry hole. Its literally worthless. The IDC allows the oil company to write that expense off this year. Why - because there is no asset to depreciate. The money is in the wind. Its like expensing photo copier ink. Its not an additional subsidy - its simply recognizing the cost as an immediate expense.

Its not a subsidy. Its tax incentives to do what the government wants - just like all the green energy stuff I listed.

And your entire post is biased. It talks about it being a hinderance to the green energy industry and hinders the growth of renewables.

Fuel companies are generally MLPs which are income tax exempt but in addition…

IDC is a variation of Last In First Out accounting both of which are used by oil to over devalue assets which provides a much better chance of making it appear there were no or close to no profits for tax purposes in a given year regardless of reality.

Can combine above with devaluation of older assets depending on the situation to effectively have it both ways.

IDC and last in first out are at a minimum redundant, and should be eliminated aligning fuel and oil to other industries.

 

[demarpaint]

Too bad it doesn't end August 1, that would have saved the taxpayers a few more $$. I better hide.