Exxon 5W-20, 4800 miles, '02 Honda Si UOA #4

[Cerbera LM]

Car '02 Honda Si
Motor K20A3

Oil change intervals
0 - 5,000 OEM oil
5,000 - 10,000 Valoline 5W/30
10,000 Exxon 5W/20
15,000 Exxon 5W/20
20,000 7/7/03 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)
29,793 12/03/03 Exxon 5W/20
34,573 02/13/04 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)
39,998 05/31/04 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)
44,992 08/07/04 Exxon 5W/20
56,429 01/08/05 Exxon 5W/20
61,243 05/05/05 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)

Oil Filter: Bosch
Lab: Blackstone (all 4 UOAs)

This is the fourth analysis on this car, newest one is on the right side.

Latest commute is 18 miles in 20-25 minutes, other then that it's your average daily driver. Avg mpg over fill was 29.7.

The red flag is the sodium that went through the roof. Haven’t added any anti-freeze, but then again I never checked it before today. On a cold engine the radiator is plum full and the expansion tank is a half inch below the min line. Hope the recipe changed over the last year.

code:

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Date 7/7/03 2/13/04 5/31/04 5/5/05

Miles on Car 20,000 34,573 39,998 61,243

Miles on Oil....5000 ..4780 ...5425 ...4814

Makeup Oil ......0.5 .....0 ......0 ......0

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Elements

Aluminum ......... 4 .....5 ......4 ......3

Chromium ......... 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Iron ............. 8 .....7 ......6 ......5

Copper ........... 5 .....3 ......4 ......2

Lead ............. 1 .....0 ......1 ......1

Tin .............. 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Molybdenum ..... 230 ...224 ....226 ....180

Nickel ........... 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Manganese ........ 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Silver ........... 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Titanium ......... 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Potassium ........ 0 .....0 ......0 ......0

Boron ........... 50 ....60 .....49 .....45

Silicon ......... 11 .....8 ......9 ......8

-

Sodium ........... 4 .....3 ......2 ....186

-

Calcium ....... 2254 ..2052 ...2222 ...1898

Magnesium ........ 6 .....8 ......6 ......7

Phosphorus ..... 842 ...740 ....791 ....755

Zinc ........... 960 ...892 ...1102 ....927

Barium ........ 0 .....0 ......0 ......1

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TBN ............ 2.1 ...3.3 ....N/A ....N/A

Viscosity @ 210F 49.7 52.3 49.5 50.4

Flashpoint ..... 375 ...330 ....400 ....395

Insolubles% .... 0.4 ...0.3 ....0.3 ....0.2

Fuel ..............0 ..1.8% ...0.5% ...0.5%

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[sully]

Since Mobil is using sodium in their 5000/7500 line of oils it's very possible the Exxon lineup formulation contains sodium as well. Wear numbers certainly don't reflect a problem. A VOA of the 5W20 would be my next step.

 

[pbm]

Cerbera: Did you go 11000 miles between oil changes from 8/04 to 1/05 on this dino oil? If so, why would anybody use anything else in a Honda. Seriously, I think this is one of the great values on the market in 5/20 oil. Good Luck.

 

[Cerbera LM]

quote:

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Originally posted by pbm:
Cerbera: Did you go 11000 miles between oil changes from 8/04 to 1/05 on this dino oil? If so, why would anybody use anything else in a Honda. Seriously, I think this is one of the great values on the market in 5/20 oil. Good Luck.

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Longest run has been 7,7xx if I remember correctly. Fat fingered something, will correct it this evening.

 

[pbm]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cerbera LM:

quote:

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Originally posted by pbm:
Cerbera: Did you go 11000 miles between oil changes from 8/04 to 1/05 on this dino oil? If so, why would anybody use anything else in a Honda. Seriously, I think this is one of the great values on the market in 5/20 oil. Good Luck.

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Longest run has been 7,7xx if I remember correctly. Fat fingered something, will correct it this evening.

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Cerbera: 77xx OCI on an inexpensive, readily available, dino oil isn't too shabby. I have used this oil a few times on my Accord 4 cyl. but I've never had a UOA done (I've also never gone beyond approx. 4200 miles OCI). If it held up 77xx for you then it surely had no problem at 4200 for me.

 

[Mr Nice]

Cerbera,

What is the gas mileage on your car ?? I might buy my wife an Civic Si , Thanks

 

[ruking77]

Other than hoping you find the source and cause of the high sodium, the ExxonMobil Superflo 5w20 is very hard to beat, especially at app 1 dollar per quart. If I didn't make the decision to go to synthetic Mobil One, this is the brand and viscosity I would run. I actually have app 4 changes worth of the red bottled tiger.

I ran the Honda oem 5w20 per oem recommendation (10,000) miles and have gone to Mobil One 0w20. A visual on the old oil, indicated the color was still honey brownish color!!?? As a data point the mpg range has been between 35-39. Right before I changed the Honda oem 5w20 (made by EM to Honda specifications) it popped 40 mpg. My first refill after change indicates app 1 mpg better at 36.3 mpg. So my guess is the new range will be 36-41/42.

 

[Al]

I'd be willing to bet the sodium is from the oil. With that sodium coming from the coolant you would get a glycol indication, potassium would likely be higher, silicon wold be higher, iron would be higher, lead, and viscosity would be probably higher.

 

[Storm897]

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
I'd be willing to bet the sodium is from the oil. With that sodium coming from the coolant you would get a glycol indication, potassium would likely be higher, silicon wold be higher, iron would be higher, lead, and viscosity would be probably higher.

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I think its the new formulation of oil. Some oils even indicate positive anti-freeze readings while the oil is virgin. Click here for an example.

I had a similar scare in my car. I will be changing my oil this weekend and sending in the oil for another UOA to see what the results show.

 

[Cerbera LM]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cerbera LM:

quote:

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Originally posted by pbm:
Cerbera: Did you go 11000 miles between oil changes from 8/04 to 1/05 on this dino oil? If so, why would anybody use anything else in a Honda. Seriously, I think this is one of the great values on the market in 5/20 oil. Good Luck.

---

Longest run has been 7,7xx if I remember correctly. Fat fingered something, will correct it this evening.

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Added the missing oil change.

Oil change intervals
0 - 5,000 OEM oil
5,000 - 10,000 Valoline 5W/30
10,000 Exxon 5W/20
15,000 Exxon 5W/20
20,000 7/7/03 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)
29,793 12/03/03 Exxon 5W/20
34,573 02/13/04 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)
39,998 05/31/04 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)
44,992 08/07/04 Exxon 5W/20
49,429 10/16/04 Exxon 5W/20
56,429 01/08/05 Exxon 5W/20
61,243 05/05/05 Exxon 5W/20 (Tested)

 

[Cerbera LM]

quote:

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Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
Cerbera,

What is the gas mileage on your car ?? I might buy my wife an Civic Si , Thanks

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Avg mpg to-date is 28.89
Low 23.86
high 34.68

Too much info, the number of times I've gotten xx mpg.
34 mpg 2x
33 mpg 2x
32 mph 6x
31 mph 5x
30 mph 46x
29 mph 48x
28 mph 49x
27 mph 24x
26 mph 14x
25 mph 12x
24 mph 2x
23 mph 1x


If you keep the speed at or below 75 one will get 28+ in town or out town. Get on the interstate and set the cruise at 85 the mileage will drop. Best I can tell passing 4k on the tach (79 mph) is when the mpg starts to drop. Got the low mpg doing 85 up I35 into a stiff december head wind.

 

[Cerbera LM]

double post

 

[ex_MGB]

Good to see these great results with a 5W-20 dino in this Honda. I just dumped my OEM fill from my '05 Odyssey at 4k miles and put in Honda 5W-20 "Manufactured to Honda specifications by ExxonMobil".

Honda has the following printed on the bottle:

- Meets Honda and Acura quality standards
- A unique all-season motor oil blended specifically for all Honda and Acura vehicles
- Tested and approved by Honda R&D
- Contains special additives to exceed API SL/SJ performance and ILSAC GF-3
- Helps to reduce wear for longer engine life
- Outstanding high temperature protection for longer engine life
- Improved fuel economy

Be interesting to see the differences, if any, between this and SuperFlo.

BTW - What's the redline on your Si and can we assume it sees some spirited driving as the odd occasion arises?

[ May 21, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Exxon's 5w-20 offering contines to impress. Great UOA!

It is odd to see such levels of sodium in there. I wonder why Exxon/Mobil decided to go the "high sodium" rather than what Chevron/Havoline and Pennzoil decided to do with their SM dinos??

 

[Mr Nice]

I believe the motor in the Civic Si is the same motor in the base RSX.....160 HP.

 

[Surprise]

quote:

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Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
I believe the motor in the Civic Si is the same motor in the base RSX.....160 HP.

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Very, very close. Different intake manifold (rsx: dual runner plastic/composite vs. si: single runner Al)and the si has electric power steering. I also recall (don't quote) that the si has a 2nd order additional counter balanced shaft were the rsx has a fully counterweighted & balanced crank.

 

[ex_MGB]

If we get a few more threads like this with these kind of results for dino 5W-20, I think the 5W-20 naysayers are going to be eating a little crow.

My plan on my Ody is to run 5W-20 Honda dino up to 20k for a solid break-in then go with syn (whichever one looks best in a Honda V6) 5W-20. If consumption due to wear ever goes up, I'm guessing well after 100k miles, my fall back position will be to move to a 5W-30 syn, but I'll be doing UOA's along the way for verification plus watching this board.

The only fly in the ointment will be oil useage. It troubles me Honda R&D has signed off on a dino but not a syn. Do they know something I don't?

I really think that unless a Honda sees consistent 95+ mph runs (not likely in the U.S.), then a 5W-20 works best and using the OLM for changes. My Ody sees a lot of short around town trips (soccer mom-ish) and I like the good start-up, warm-up flow of the 5W-20. Highway speed above 75 mph non-existent for this vehicle.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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No, no, no! 5w20 is too thin,

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Now just wait a minute!!! Tastes great ..and is less filling!

 

[NewGuy]

These are great wear numbers. It looks like you are treating your Honda well and your maintenance regiment is working for you. That Sodium could very well be from a newer formulation (GF-4) of the Exxon 5W20.....Sully is probably correct and a VOA of Exxon 5W20 might put you at ease on the issue.

If you had a coolant leak...the glycol would have been detected and your wear numbers would indicate a leak (which they do not). Did you check the VOA section to see if Exxon 5W20 is listed? Maybe Stinky will run one for you if you send him a sample.

It seems that you have a good wearing engine and a nice engine/oil combination. We don't hear too much about Exxon-branded oils. Their Mobil products get all of the attention.

 

[Ugly3]

No, no, no! 5w20 is too thin, you need Truck & SUV 15w40 to fully protect your engine. Read all the "thick" posts - you will see!