Extended Oil Change Intervals and other junk
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"COP"? I don't see that anywhere in this thread (other than when you wrote it). Do you mean "OCI"? If so, that stands for "oil change interval".
First off I should say i have read, and agreed with many of your post, so please don't take offense at anything i may disagree with you on. I indeed respect your knowledge and opinions.
Having said that, I'm afraid you can color me guilty of excessive oil changes
I currently drive approx 15K a year and change my oil at least every 3K miles. I know i change my oil too often, but i can't help myself! I do however take care to be responsible when discarding my used oil, if that helpsQuote:
Anyone who puts 500k on the same engine untouched had to take better care of their car in general ..and, most likely, did some very easy miles on their engine. Even EXCEPTIONAL (25k/year) would take 20 years to reach that finish line. 25k/year has the vast majority of the operational life of the engine in the lowest wearing part of the curve. It's also far less stressful on oil. The fact that frequent oil changes were done may or may not have had much to do with the longevity of the engine. That is, if they changed it every 1000 miles ..you may say that it was excessive ..but since whatever that person did in their reaching 500k worked ..you've assumed that their number was essential ..if you see what I mean. If they had done it half as often ..they may have still succeeded
I agree with your logic... It's hard to tell what we don't know. I change my oil at least every 3000 miles. I've never had an engine problem. My Dad changes his oil (and always has) every 5000 miles, and the only engine problems he has experienced were in used cars that had the problem when he bought them, and thats over his car ownership life of some 60 years with many cars reaching pretty high mileage. So i would have to agree that even 5000 miles seems to be fine for our driving styles. Dad has experienced, on more than one ocassion, problems with leaking engine seals.
I would tend to believe however that my excessive short trips and sometimes long idle times makes my 3000 mile OCI, while perhaps not necessary, at least understandable.
For most folks on here, various factors can and are taken into consideration when choosing an OCI. For the masses however it's hard to suggest a one size fits all OCI because there are too many factors. I suppose thats why oil life indicators are a good thing in some cases.
When friends who discover my interest in cars inquire as to how often to change their oil, i always tell them to change it at least every 5K miles. Is it necessary in all cases? No. Is it a good idea to have a car that is otherwise ignored looked at every 5K miles to change the oil, check the tranny fluid, radiator, CV boots, etc? Yes.
Oil changes in place of proper maintenence is not an excuse, i agree, but unfortunatly that is all too often the case.
I did talk myself out of changing my oil this past weekend at 1500 miles though, so i'm making small steps in the right direction
I'll just say this: your mileage may vary (YMMV)
My 96 Saturn SL2 was driven in mostly 1-2 mi trips and got new 5W30 dino and cheap filters every 7-10k miles for most of its life. Of course, Saturn 1.9Ls burn a ton of oil, mine burned 1 qt/2k miles. After 96k miles, the valvetrain was only golden and there was no sludge or heavy varnish.
Dusty conditions usually aren't an issue provided that the air filter is sealed and is working OK.
Changing M1 EP every 10k miles is probably OK. While it may not be optimal, I doubt it'll cause you significant issues down the road either.
My 96 Saturn SL2 was driven in mostly 1-2 mi trips and got new 5W30 dino and cheap filters every 7-10k miles for most of its life. Of course, Saturn 1.9Ls burn a ton of oil, mine burned 1 qt/2k miles. After 96k miles, the valvetrain was only golden and there was no sludge or heavy varnish.
Dusty conditions usually aren't an issue provided that the air filter is sealed and is working OK.
Changing M1 EP every 10k miles is probably OK. While it may not be optimal, I doubt it'll cause you significant issues down the road either.
Gary: I agree wholeheartedly, at least in the physical sense. My own UOA, on both high mileage cars (mine) and low (wife's) demonstrate the non-necessity of 3k or even 5k OCIs. On the other hand, I now find myself with a late model used car that's Toyota Certified Used, has a 7/100 wty, and specifies 5k OCIs, across the board, regardless of type use. Both from the one UOA I've done so far on this car, and the look of the oil at that mileage, it's clearly not done. But I'm unwilling to risk a wty fight with Toyota (in the unlikely event...). So yes, I'm "wasting" the oil in the physical sense, but it's also a necessary "casualty" in order to serve other concerns.
I drove a 85 Chevy Caprice 305 4bbl that I bought with 88k(assume only dino oil to that point)to 252k on 25k oil changes,filter every 7500 using Amsoil full synthetic 10w30 with only the plastic timing gear failing at 225k.Still ran great,smooth idle etc. when I sold the car with 252k and inside the valve covers was cleaner then when I bought the car.Auto was driven 500 miles a week commuting to work.
ekpolk - I too have a toyota with the "reguired" 5,000 mile oil change. I put in new oil and a new filter, run 5,000 miles, reset the oil change monitor, and run the next 5,000 miles. I am running Mobil 1 5w20 and at 10,000 miles it looks very good (probably 80% highway miles).
WOW, 25,000 mile AMSOIL oil changes from 88,000 miles to 225,000 miles! On a 85 Chevy?! Just think of the time and money you saved. I just sold my 83 Chevy van last year. It also held up very good, but only had 86,000 miles. I did once a year oil changes on it. It always ran great. It would sit neglected in my driveway for a month and always started right up.
I still don't see that mentioned in this thread. Did you read it in some other thread?
Anyway, I bet COP stands for ConocoPhilips...the manufacturer of Motorcraft oil.
So you changed the filter at 7500 - 15,000 - 22,500 miles, and then changed the oil and filter at 25,000 miles? You could probably duplicate your results with any quality synthetic.
Patman I think you are wrong. I do extendend changes on two cars. Both have 4 quart sumps. My thinking is that small sumps as well as small radiators allow your oil to get up to operating temp. much quicker. This means less wear on your engine. Less time pumping cold oil. Less moisture in your oil system from short trips, should also be a side beneifit.
From UOA's on my Honda 15,000 is very reasonable with Mobil 1 EP. I only go 10,000 on the Miata but using regular Mobil 1 0w-40 in that car.
I think auto-rx on some sort of regular basis is also in order to avoid sludge and keep engines spotless to eliminate rebuilds.
From UOA's on my Honda 15,000 is very reasonable with Mobil 1 EP. I only go 10,000 on the Miata but using regular Mobil 1 0w-40 in that car.
I think auto-rx on some sort of regular basis is also in order to avoid sludge and keep engines spotless to eliminate rebuilds.
Patman
Staff member
Perhaps if your driving habits include a ton of short trips in cold weather, then a smaller sump might be beneficial, but I think overall a larger sump is the way to go.
With AMSOIL's new 25,000 mile filter he could have even eliminated those additional filter changes. And had a parts and labor warranty.
COP = Coil-On-Plug usually, Ford's ignition system with an individual ignition coil built into each plug wire boot.
Although I don't think it's that relevant to anything oil-related
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(note to my "other self" "See? I told you that they would start listening to you if you kept carrying on like that long enough
Not at all.
Do whatever you feel is the right thing to do. It's your car ..your engine and you're the one who has to worry about it giving you the years that you expect out of it. My sense of "waste" is purely from a material stand point ..as ekpolk clearly expresses ..there's more to maintenance then just the apparent facts. My views are somewhat "one dimensional" and/or shallow.
ekpolk: Good points. As I said above ..there is, at times, more to it.
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