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Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.
 
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


When a flowing fluid hits a barrier, it tries to go around. Look at some of the pictures here. The end cap keeps the oil from flowing around the edge of the media.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Once again I suppose most filter manufacturers don't feel the need to post any filter information because 99.9% of the population would not care to know or understand what any of the data meant. They will change their oil at 3,000 miles and will trade their cars and not drive them into the ground and care how long the engine lasts.


That's true.

But I've come to also realize that the filter manufacture's will not divulge much technical info if asked. They claim it's "proprietary data" which I tend to call B.S. on because any other filter manufacture can buy their filters and cut them open to see how they are built, and also do any kind of performance tests on them they so desire. You can bet that the big filter makers have test labs that can be used to checkout any of their competitor's filters.

For instance, I tried to get flow vs. psid performance for the PureONE from Purolator, but they wouldn't say anything about the flow rate performance. Is it because they are afraid it has substandard performance? If not, why not brag about the performance it is going to help sell filters?
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I've found flow rate performance from Donaldson to be readily obtainable.

Originally Posted By: Donaldson

At 150lpm the Donald P559000 is 85% efficient in the 10μ Efficiency per ISO 4548/12
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.


GIVEN: FRAM Filters are known to have end caps! We all agree here, right? It is 100% true that FRAM oil filters have paper/cardboard end caps. There are tons of pictures on this board to prove this fact.

CONCLUSION: If a FRAM oil filter has a paper end cap then it is INFERIOR to any oil filter that has a metal end cap because of the function that an end cap serves. Obviously, this is an analogy based on the fact that all other parts of an oil filter are the same.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
For instance, I tried to get flow vs. psid performance for the PureONE from Purolator, but they wouldn't say anything about the flow rate performance.


Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I've found flow rate performance from Donaldson to be readily obtainable.

Originally Posted By: Donaldson

At 150lpm the Donald P559000 is 85% efficient in the 10μ tEfficiency per ISO 4548/12


That is not flow vs pressure drop data. That is filtering effiecency data.

150 lpm is a huge amount of volume ... ~ 37 gal/min.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I've found flow rate performance from Donaldson to be readily obtainable.

Originally Posted By: Donaldson

At 150lpm the Donald P559000 is 85% efficient in the 10μ tEfficiency per ISO 4548/12


That is not flow vs pressure drop data. That is filtering effiecency data.

150 lpm is a huge amount of volume ... ~ 37 gal/min.


Yes, they also have the efficiency data for 105lpm as well. I would imagine these are pretty "standard" flow figures in the diesel world, given that their oil pumps move massively more oil than those found in a passenger car.

Haven't gone looking for pressure-drop data.......

Just found some more info about the above data:

Originally Posted By: Donaldson
The ISO 4548/12 multi-pass test is a widely accepted industry standard test used by OEMs for the purpose of evaluating and comparing the efficiency and capacity of liquid filtration products. Test results are an average from the testing of three product samples in accordance with ISO 4548/12 specifications. The ISO 4548/12 specifies ISO 12103 test dust. Test data reported at 25 psid terminal restriction point.
 
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Originally Posted By: MBCLK
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.




GIVEN: FRAM Filters are known to have end caps! We all agree here, right? It is 100% true that FRAM oil filters have paper/cardboard end caps. There are tons of pictures on this board to prove this fact.

CONCLUSION: If a FRAM oil filter has a paper end cap then it is INFERIOR to any oil filter that has a metal end cap because of the function that an end cap serves. Obviously, this is an analogy based on the fact that all other parts of an oil filter are the same.


The Extended Guard has synthetic media, Metal end caps, and a steel mesh screen liner for the filter media. Not to bad, but that's the only Fram I will use. Will go back to Wix when I move back to California next week.
 
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Originally Posted By: Donaldson
Test data reported at 25 psid terminal restriction point.


That sounds like it's probably at the filter's by-pass pressure setting.
 
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.




GIVEN: FRAM Filters are known to have end caps! We all agree here, right? It is 100% true that FRAM oil filters have paper/cardboard end caps. There are tons of pictures on this board to prove this fact.

CONCLUSION: If a FRAM oil filter has a paper end cap then it is INFERIOR to any oil filter that has a metal end cap because of the function that an end cap serves. Obviously, this is an analogy based on the fact that all other parts of an oil filter are the same.


The Extended Guard has synthetic media, Metal end caps, and a steel mesh screen liner for the filter media. Not to bad, but that's the only Fram I will use. Will go back to Wix when I move back to California next week.


It has a synthetic BLEND media, like the M1 filter.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: Donaldson
Test data reported at 25 psid terminal restriction point.


That sounds like it's probably at the filter's by-pass pressure setting.


Correct. Sounds like they load it up right until it is about to go into bypass, and that's what they base their efficiency rating on.

The part I find fascinating is that they can pump 150lpm through it and then start loading it up and that is how they obtain their rating (which is still a VERY high number for multi-pass), which to ME, would mean that the filter is able to handle a LOT of volume.......
 
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If coolhand01 is associated with "marketing", then maybe he should convince his company that they should make a filter with the appropriate 23 psi by-pass setting for the HV oil pump systems on the newer Subarus ... maybe in the EG filter, which seems to be a decent Fram.

Speak up there Mr. coolhand01.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
If coolhand01 is associated with "marketing", then maybe he should convince his company that they should make a filter with the appropriate 23 psi by-pass setting for the HV oil pump systems on the newer Subarus ... maybe in the EG filter, which seems to be a decent Fram.

Speak up there Mr. coolhand01.
wink.gif



I still wouldn't buy it. I have a Fram sitting on my shelf that my dad bought for my moms Subaru that is never going to get used.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Once again I suppose most filter manufacturers don't feel the need to post any filter information because 99.9% of the population would not care to know or understand what any of the data meant. They will change their oil at 3,000 miles and will trade their cars and not drive them into the ground and care how long the engine lasts.


That's true.

But I've come to also realize that the filter manufacture's will not divulge much technical info if asked. They claim it's "proprietary data" which I tend to call B.S. on because any other filter manufacture can buy their filters and cut them open to see how they are built, and also do any kind of performance tests on them they so desire. You can bet that the big filter makers have test labs that can be used to checkout any of their competitor's filters.

For instance, I tried to get flow vs. psid performance for the PureONE from Purolator, but they wouldn't say anything about the flow rate performance. Is it because they are afraid it has substandard performance? If not, why not brag about the performance it is going to help sell filters?
21.gif



Well
21.gif
You can get some data from the manufacturers. I've seen the data sheets on some of Baldwin's bypass filters that another member fax'd me. The problem is that many can't integrate the data.

For example the beta for this filter was something like (totally out of my behind) Beta6=13.5 (yes, they used oddball numbers) ..but they didn't give you the flow rate for the test. It can't conform to the normal multipass test.

I've seen spec's for some of the Motor Craft filters ..like the (thinking) HP FL1A. It gives a filtering efficiency and a PSID @ x amount of flow.

If you see this data, you tend to rationalize obscure stuff like "free flowing" and restrictive" filters, which is something that most rarely encounter.

I would mainly be concerned with holding capacity and filtering efficiency. The PSID data is pretty much worthless in most sensible views.

Greshen K-22001 hydraulic filter

Beta10=2
Beta20=20
Beta22=75

Capacity 8gms typical

^P @ 10gpm 150 SUS fluid = 4 PSID

Would it really matter if it was 6 or 2 PSID if you were only moving 3-6gpm and never had the capacity to move 10gpm??? Would a "freer" flowing hydraulic filter make any difference? Would a "more restrictive" hydraulic filter make any difference?

That is, would you be sensible enough, when seeing the 10gpm data, to figure that your 5gpm demand won't make a difference, or would you tend to put importance upon it ..even if it would never be important in your circumstances?

If you can see what I'm saying
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.




GIVEN: FRAM Filters are known to have end caps! We all agree here, right? It is 100% true that FRAM oil filters have paper/cardboard end caps. There are tons of pictures on this board to prove this fact.

CONCLUSION: If a FRAM oil filter has a paper end cap then it is INFERIOR to any oil filter that has a metal end cap because of the function that an end cap serves. Obviously, this is an analogy based on the fact that all other parts of an oil filter are the same.


The Extended Guard has synthetic media, Metal end caps, and a steel mesh screen liner for the filter media. Not to bad, but that's the only Fram I will use. Will go back to Wix when I move back to California next week.


It has a synthetic BLEND media, like the M1 filter.


I stand corrected....
smirk2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.




GIVEN: FRAM Filters are known to have end caps! We all agree here, right? It is 100% true that FRAM oil filters have paper/cardboard end caps. There are tons of pictures on this board to prove this fact.

CONCLUSION: If a FRAM oil filter has a paper end cap then it is INFERIOR to any oil filter that has a metal end cap because of the function that an end cap serves. Obviously, this is an analogy based on the fact that all other parts of an oil filter are the same.


I am a Fram hater, but don't follow why paper media needs metal end caps. They are glued together and glue sticks to cardboard better than steel. The cartridge filters I use have plastic end caps and none of the 30-40 I have used have shown any sign of failure.

Originally Posted By: ZZman
....

**But then again 99.9 % of the population doesn't know or care about test results and specs on this stuff so why should they cater to us? Because we are a little anal about this stuff!


Most advertising is directed to right brained people making emotional decisions. Left brained people are PITA's you have to give value for the dollar as well as facts, cutting your profit margin. Who needs those kooks?
 
Quote:
am a Fram hater, but don't follow why paper media needs metal end caps. They are glued together and glue sticks to cardboard better than steel. The cartridge filters I use have plastic end caps and none of the 30-40 I have used have shown any sign of failure.


Sure, the seal/bond is probably better on the composite board that Fram uses. Now as far as cartridge filters, I don't see too many of them having cardboard/composite end caps ..as one might expect if you "uncanned" a Fram. Most that I've seen are plastic.

We've seen this:

HP-7002.jpg


and this:

eao88_large.jpg


or this (for color)

cartridge_oilfilter.jpg



but look what we see here? No cardboard (all Frams)
grin2.gif


41ZG1F2ZQ5L._SL500_.jpg


CH6012.jpg


Has anyone ever pulled one of these out of their modern engine (yes, you can probably still get the cardboard cartridge bypass filters)

fail1b.jpg



There's a certain rigidity factor that can't be attained with the cardboard end cap. It's not typically a factor of merit ..but when issues do arise, this is usually where it originates.
 
The common PF 457 specified for my Ecotec and the half dozen other brands I have used, including the Perflux Fram used to sell, have all had plastic end caps. The caps look much like the ones in your second picture. Note, you never noticed the dozens pictures of that filter hat have been posted here over the years?
 
From other discussions, there have been samples of Denso filters with no end caps, or filled in ends, just pleats folded and glued at the ends. It appears the doubled over media gives the strength to maintain shape. It seems to me in my non expert way that there is no other reason for end caps except to seal the pleats at the ends and keep them in their folded position if the media is too weak. The center tube is the main structural element. I suspect the reason there are so many steel end caps is that the machinery is in place to produce them, and it is easier to assemble media to metal caps.
 
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
here's a newbie question....do all oil filters have end caps? what is the reason an oil filter needs an end cap? does an end cap serve a specific function?


The end caps essentially hold the filtering media in place (media glued to the end caps) and also provide a way to seal the ends of the filter element and ensure oil goes through the filtering media. Yes, they all need some kind of end cap for a spin-on type of filter design.




GIVEN: FRAM Filters are known to have end caps! We all agree here, right? It is 100% true that FRAM oil filters have paper/cardboard end caps. There are tons of pictures on this board to prove this fact.

CONCLUSION: If a FRAM oil filter has a paper end cap then it is INFERIOR to any oil filter that has a metal end cap because of the function that an end cap serves. Obviously, this is an analogy based on the fact that all other parts of an oil filter are the same.


The Extended Guard has synthetic media, Metal end caps, and a steel mesh screen liner for the filter media. Not to bad, but that's the only Fram I will use. Will go back to Wix when I move back to California next week.


It has a synthetic BLEND media, like the M1 filter.


I stand corrected....
smirk2.gif



Come now, accuracy is paramount when discussing a thing such as this
grin2.gif
 
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