Expensive F150 tail-lights ... How crazy is this?

[supton]

I told lady on intersection in Infinity Q50 that I couldn’t see her until last moment because she didn’t have lights (really bad fog) and she confusingly said: “but, but, they are on.”

Yep, years ago I got bit by the backlit dash on our car, I was getting tired after driving all day, and it was heavy enough traffic so I could see (emphasis on I). BTDT, but no excuse, I was in the wrong.

I see my latest car now has a green light on the dashboard to tell me I have my headlights on. I remember a prior car had a green light to tell my my DRL's were on--and it would go out when I turned on the headlights. Ok that's 20 years apart but...

Automatic might get it right 75% of the time but it'd be nice if drivers were paying attention 100% and were in the habit of always thinking about their situation.

 

[edyvw]

Yep, years ago I got bit by the backlit dash on our car, I was getting tired after driving all day, and it was heavy enough traffic so I could see (emphasis on I). BTDT, but no excuse, I was in the wrong.

I see my latest car now has a green light on the dashboard to tell me I have my headlights on. I remember a prior car had a green light to tell my my DRL's were on--and it would go out when I turned on the headlights. Ok that's 20 years apart but...

Automatic might get it right 75% of the time but it'd be nice if drivers were paying attention 100% and were in the habit of always thinking about their situation.

Last night I was behind Subaru XV or something like that. No lights, dash illuminated galore.

 

[cb_13]

Seems like tail lights for a pickup truck should be a low cost consumable part. It's very easy to damage them putting things in the bed. I guess manufacturers don't see it that way.

That’s when you buy the XL Ford, Ram express or Chevy W/T package without all the radar sensors.

 

[CKN]

That’s when you buy the XL Ford, Ram express or Chevy W/T package without all the radar sensors.

Most vehicles go their entire life without replacing taillight (housings)......

And if they do need replacing due to an accident-that's what insurance is for.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Most vehicles go their entire life without replacing taillight (housings)......

And if they do need replacing due to an accident-that's what insurance is for.

My Xterra has had the drivers side changed twice. Once hit in a parking lot. Once hit and run. I had their license but the police would do nothing. Yes I could have used insurance but my rates would likely be higher now - your total claims history does play into your rate even when its not your fault.

There is absolutely no good reason to put a CAN controller in a tail light lens.

 

[Jetronic]

Every vehicle with OBD2 had a CAN bus - which is every vehicle since 1996. CAN is an ancient open system network, and its fairly robust, hence its used on Auto's, on commercial vehicles, on locomotives, and in factories. If you ever heard of DeviceNet in a factory, that's a form of CAN.

The bus should not fail with one module going down. You can wire Can in a star, in a drop, or in a daisy chain. Not sure - maybe even a loop? Either way, since this is a thing in 2023 but wasn't in 1996, its FORD not CAN. Yes, you will loose whatever that one module controls - but everything else should work. For example, if you loose the ABS controller, all your ABS / traction control stuff goes away, but your engine, lights and windows should still work.

This is a terrible implementation of any network topology.

If a device shorts the can out, everything goes down

 

[SC Maintenance]

If a device shorts the can out, everything goes down

Not if its wired correctly. If you short the bus everything downstream of that node will drop. If you do a drop / stub or a star, there is only 1 device on each segment, so if you short the bus anywhere you loose exactly one device. For a simplified description its the network equivalent to putting it in parallel.

Bad network topology / lack of redundancy.

 

[zzyzzx]

me, I wish I could disable the TPMS on my truck. I had the sensors removed and I get one warning ding when I start eh vehicle, which I can live with, but I wish I had the option of disabling the system.. I find it more trouble than it saves. When I bought my current RV the previous owner had installed a TPMS on it, I sold that to someone who doesn't know how to check tires..

I think TPMS can be disabled via ForScan (if you have a Ford).

 

[D60]

That’s when you buy the XL Ford, Ram express or Chevy W/T package without all the radar sensors.

Again, you can say that now. Just wait, all the collision avoidance will become mandated. Today's "conspiracy theory" is tomorrow's truth.

 

[D60]

Every vehicle with OBD2 had a CAN bus - which is every vehicle since 1996. CAN is an ancient open system network, and its fairly robust, hence its used on Auto's, on commercial vehicles, on locomotives, and in factories. If you ever heard of DeviceNet in a factory, that's a form of CAN.

The bus should not fail with one module going down. You can wire Can in a star, in a drop, or in a daisy chain. Not sure - maybe even a loop? Either way, since this is a thing in 2023 but wasn't in 1996, its FORD not CAN. Yes, you will loose whatever that one module controls - but everything else should work. For example, if you loose the ABS controller, all your ABS / traction control stuff goes away, but your engine, lights and windows should still work.

This is a terrible implementation of any network topology.

I was also thinking this. Surely it can be done differently? I'm not in favor of restrictions or legislative mandates, but I may not be opposed to requirements for manufacturers stating it simply can't be setup this way -- ie a non-affiliated module can't cause your stereo to not work or the vehicle to not start.

This-- to me -- falls more in line with consumer protection like Right to Repair or requiring parts be offered for at least 10 years.

If, say, a stereo module affected ABS, NHTSA would be more likely to take notice. The other way around, they don't care.

 

[cb_13]

Again, you can say that now. Just wait, all the collision avoidance will become mandated. Today's "conspiracy theory" is tomorrow's truth.

I won’t disagree with that. It’s exactly what happened with tpms. Then the base vehicle prices will increase even more.

Most vehicles go their entire life without replacing taillight (housings)......

And if they do need replacing due to an accident-that's what insurance is for.

Depends on what “their entire life” is. The first owner maybe even two sure. It’s not uncommon for the seals to deteriorate allowing moisture into the lamps around 15-20 years even on a well maintained vehicle. That’s a failure for vehicle inspection in my state(at least it was, they’re constantly making the rules more lenient).

People’s fear of their insurance company knows no bounds though. The amount of times I’ve heard “but my rates will go up if I turn it in” is astounding.

My main point was if someone is buying a $90k Laramie, High Country or King Ranch they shouldn’t be surprised when parts are stupid expensive. I can remember about ten years ago the huge LED taillights on Escalades and Yukon Denali were $1200 and the LEDs were common to fail. That was a real pleasant surprise for the customer that failed state inspection. Probably part of the reason they loosened up the regulations.

 

[CKN]

I won’t disagree with that. It’s exactly what happened with tpms. Then the base vehicle prices will increase even more.

Depends on what “their entire life” is. The first owner maybe even two sure. It’s not uncommon for the seals to deteriorate allowing moisture into the lamps around 15-20 years even on a well maintained vehicle. That’s a failure for vehicle inspection in my state(at least it was, they’re constantly making the rules more lenient).

People’s fear of their insurance company knows no bounds though. The amount of times I’ve heard “but my rates will go up if I turn it in” is astounding.

My main point was if someone is buying a $90k Laramie, High Country or King Ranch they shouldn’t be surprised when parts are stupid expensive. I can remember about ten years ago the huge LED taillights on Escalades and Yukon Denali were $1200 and the LEDs were common to fail. That was a real pleasant surprise for the customer that failed state inspection. Probably part of the reason they loosened up the regulations.

I have heard this many times. It's makes me wonder why people are so afraid of Insurance Companies. I had a basement flood-$5,000.00 in damages. The existing company then raise the rates (not that much really) but I shopped around and got the same price I was paying before even with a claim.

I have Insurance-I use it if I need too. It's simple.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I hate those things. While it's nice that it works for some people, too often I see people driving in dim light situations, rain/snow/fog, but are too dumb to turn on their headlights. I've mostly given up on flashing high beams at them, it's rare for them to respond.

Some cars are better at than others. On any rainy day I can tell you the ones that aren't.

I hate automatic lights as well because I believe it shortens the life of my expensive Xenon bulbs.

Lucky for me my dash isn't continuously lit.

 

[bdcardinal]

Isn't there a Mercedes that doesn't run if an outside rear view mirror gets knocked off?

On some Ford trucks, the put the ambient temp sensor in one of the outside mirrors. People will knock their mirror off and instead of paying $1500-1700 for a Ford one, they get an ebay one which doesn't have the sensor and sets off the check engine light. Have had more than once instance here where the fix for a CEL was putting the factory mirror back on, of course not under warranty.

 

[hrv]

FordTechMakuloco just put out a new video about a 2018 F150 Limited that had water intrusion into the taillights which caused the vehicle to not start and run and the total repair to fix it was $5,600. Talk about crazy. Modules for the taillights were on national backorder but he was able to find some but if he wouldn't have, this truck would have been dead in the water.

Remember FORD has a better idea.....

 

[bdcardinal]

Remember FORD has a better idea.....

I was watching a SMA video with a 07ish Tahoe with a no-start. Eric went and unplugged the rotted out suspension control module and everything came back to life. So fortunately, or not depending on how you look at it, Ford isn't the only one to do such stupid things.

 

[hrv]

I was watching a SMA video with a 07ish Tahoe with a no-start. Eric went and unplugged the rotted out suspension control module and everything came back to life. So fortunately, or not depending on how you look at it, Ford isn't the only one to do such stupid things.

Maybe but Ford does a pretty good job at stupid.

 

[fdcg27]

So maybe in ten or fifteen years we'll no longer see beat up old 200K mile pickups towing lawn guy trailers around?
Kind of a shame that a simple failure can disable an otherwise safe and functional vehicle, especially when that failure costs so much to remediate.

 

[GMBoy]

It brings down the entire CAN bus. A lot of modules have the potential to do this. Similar issue on Ram pickups.

Correct. I just had a Yukon where the splice pack was bringing down the can bus and losing cluster, radio, AC, door locks etc while driving. Week before that had an Equinox with a bad pin grip at the electric p/s module that brought down the hi speed lan and caused a no start.

 

[bdcardinal]

Correct. I just had a Yukon where the splice pack was bringing down the can bus and losing cluster, radio, AC, door locks etc while driving. Week before that had an Equinox with a bad pin grip at the electric p/s module that brought down the hi speed lan and caused a no start.

Its almost like we are outsmarting ourselves