EV snow plows falling short.

[fsdork]

I don't see how that's comparable, it's not like they stuck a plow on the front of a Tesla Model 3 and tried to do it, they actually used an EV that are designed to replace a comparable class of HD vehicle.

Garbage trucks start and stop frequently, which is a good use case for an EV or hybrid drivetrain. EVs and hybrids benefit from regenerative braking, as the energy typically converted to heat by conventional brakes is instead sent back to the battery. While not nearly 100% efficient, this is a big piece of the mileage gain seen by hybrids.

Snow plows need to push heavy snow on a near-constant basis, which takes lots of energy and is not an application where regenerative braking would be nearly as beneficial.

The above is the same reason there is a difference in practicality between using EVs for urban delivery vs. inter-state OTR trucking. They're both delivery trucks - one use case suits the technology as it exists today, while the other doesn't.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Seems like they should have seen that coming. Extra load equal massive reduction in usability.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/new-york-abandons-electric-snow-plows/ar-AA1jyazz

So in other words, they conducted an experiment with one vehicle and the experiment failed. They may or may not have seen that coming. Given that they limited the test to one vehicle, I'd say that they saw it coming. Now they have real data to point to when the lefty loons demand electric snowplows. Seems like money well spent in my book.

 

[oil pan 4]

I find it interesting that New York delegates snow removal to their trash guys ("dept of sanitation") vs DPW or similar "road works" crews.

A hybrid or electric trash truck makes a lick of sense, they just creep along, mostly. Must sound funny in the early morning hours, having no idling engine noise then suddenly trash cans get dumped in a glass-breaking racket.

Electric utopia seekers will allow no such thing. No hybrids, has to be all electric with gigantic Earth destroying batteries.

 

[Oro_O]

I find it interesting that New York delegates snow removal to their trash guys ("dept of sanitation") vs DPW or similar "road works" crews.

A hybrid or electric trash truck makes a lick of sense, they just creep along, mostly. Must sound funny in the early morning hours, having no idling engine noise then suddenly trash cans get dumped in a glass-breaking racket.

Just speculating, but that seems to make a lot of sense. The DPW guys are mostly focused on repairs and construction from what I know, when it comes to roads. OTOH, the sanitation guys are intimately familiar with the roads and conditions EVERYWHERE as they are out there everyday on set routes touching everything. Also, since roads require plowing, the collection is going to be suspended. Cross-training the skilled sanitation drivers as plow drivers makes a lot of sense. Maybe it’s actually done that way in a lot of places? IDK.

So it seems they me be in a good position for that. So yeah, interesting as you said.

 

[ctechbob]

Maybe not full-on electric, but a hybrid much like the new Ram 1500 where the hydrocarbon engine just drives a generator at peak efficiency. Add to that some battery storage and proper low-speed gearing and I think you'd have a plowing monster. Superior low-end torque and a drivetrain that doesn't rely on clutches to vary speed.

I think something built for the task would do very well as opposed to something retrofitted into the job.

 

[Torrid]

Electric utopia seekers will allow no such thing. No hybrids, has to be all electric with gigantic Earth destroying batteries.

You are all are high and just need some form of conspiracy. It's called a test for a reason. Stock up on tin foil.

 

[fsdork]

You are all are high and just need some form of conspiracy. It's called a test for a reason. Stock up on tin foil.

How dare you suggest the guy driving a "Heavily modified 1984 6.5L suburban" is anything other than moderate in his views? Who else is going to help me form my views on the evolution of automotive energy sources?

 

[Shel_B]

We have 4 electric busses here in Louisville they purchased a few years ago...They are all broke down after spending over 9 MILLION bucks on them...A total waste of tax payers money.....

Why did they break down? Why haven't they been repaired?

Our municipal transit system uses a number of hybrid, electric, and hydrogen-powered buses, and has been doing so for years, with good results. The transit agency has been using these, and similar busses, since around 1999-2000.

https://www.actransit.org/zeb

 

[LenZee]

Right tool for the right job. Like you said though with standard reduction it's almost direct drive and tends to be tougher than a transmission. They need enough power on board to do the job though. Doesn't do any good if it doesn't have enough battery to finish the task.

Having a much larger battery for 12 hours of plowing would reduce it's garbage capacity due to the weight/size of additional batteries. Maybe a hybrid solution would be better. Or just make a plow only vehicle.

 

[Torrid]

Having a much larger battery for 12 hours of plowing would reduce it's garbage capacity due to the weight/size of additional batteries. Maybe a hybrid solution would be better. Or just make a plow only vehicle.

Absolutely. It sounds like dedicated vehicles are the answer.

 

[MNgopher]

Sure, buy a dedicated fleet of plow only vehicles that sit around and do nothing for the vast majority of the year. I'm sure the tax paying public won't mind....

Working for an agency with hundreds of heavy plow units, the challenge is using the same tool the rest of the year. NYC is actually pretty clever in putting to use their heavy vehicle fleet the way they do.

End of the day, it was one unit in one test. Lessons were learned. If we never try something new, we'd never learn anything new, good idea or not...

 

[Torrid]

Sure, buy a dedicated fleet of plow only vehicles that sit around and do nothing for the vast majority of the year. I'm sure the tax paying public won't mind....

Working for an agency with hundreds of heavy plow units, the challenge is using the same tool the rest of the year. NYC is actually pretty clever in putting to use their heavy vehicle fleet the way they do.

End of the day, it was one unit in one test. Lessons were learned. If we never try something new, we'd never learn anything new, good idea or not...

That's how it works here. Trash is a contracted company. They don't do the plowing.

 

[97prizm]

In an average EV, 100 miles equates to around 30 kWh of energy,

 

[97prizm]

So

In an average EV, 100 miles equates to around 30 kWh of energy,

30 kwh roughly in 5 minutes

 

[demarpaint]

Having a much larger battery for 12 hours of plowing would reduce it's garbage capacity due to the weight/size of additional batteries. Maybe a hybrid solution would be better. Or just make a plow only vehicle.

That and consider that NY uses a lot of salt on the roads, so corrosion is a concern. IIRC the batteries don't play well in that type of environment either especially if their case/housing starts to rot through. That might have also played into the decision to can the idea.

 

[bbhero]

How dare you suggest the guy driving a "Heavily modified 1984 6.5L suburban" is anything other than moderate in his views? Who else is going to help me form my views on the evolution of automotive energy sources?

I sure you know that originally cars were actually using batteries for their power until the ice came along ? Then at that time it was obvious that ice powered cars was the way to go forward.

Granted let’s be clear…. Those batteries were the OG first of their kind batteries.

Certainly not to be confused with lithium ion batteries… Far, far, far different possibilities and potential with them.

 

[IndyIan]

Since the article has no information at all about what truck they tried, I'll guess its a Medium duty Mack with up to a 240kwh battery. So only 2.5 Model S batteries... Um, what did they think was going to happen? The Tesla Semi had 850-900 kwh to work with so it might do an 8hr shift of light plowing?

 

[bullwinkle]

It's an attack on truth, justice, and the American way of life.

Maybe we need a sarcasm font here? If no one ever dreamed, or tinkered & tried things, we would still be bashing animals over the head with rocks or clubs & dragging them back to our caves to survive!

 

[bullwinkle]

Electric utopia seekers will allow no such thing. No hybrids, has to be all electric with gigantic Earth destroying batteries.

That’s the part that has always confused me-it’s almost like the “all electric green transportation revolution” has been doomed to fail, since the very beginning. So much for the “we’re so much smarter than you” theory!

 

[MNgopher]

That's how it works here. Trash is a contracted company. They don't do the plowing.

I think you are missing the point.

Under your idea, the City of New York should buy a dedicated fleet of plow trucks, have them sit (and need to be parked, housed, and mainained) and do nothing the rest of the year, and maintain a separate large fleet of municipal heavy duty vehicles that are also capable of plowing, but not use them for that purpose.

Clearly the City has already figured out they do not need a fleet of dump/plow trucks for their needs which, just maybe, are different from where you live.

The next point is if you believe that your local (city or county in Wisconsin's case) plow fleet sits the part of the year you aren't plowing, you would likely be surprised.

(Source: Having worked for two counties and now the state in engineering and operations). Our trucks run plows in the winter, and do other public works jobs the rest of the year (shouldering, hauling, traffic control, etc...). They don't sit. Any piece of equipment that doesn't get used regularly gets jettisoned and we rent it / borrow it from another agency when we need it.

Again, working the the highly urbanized NYC area, they clearly have already figured out they don't need a fleet of plow only trucks laying around... but have leveraged the large heavy truck fleet they already own.

Another point of reference would be the City of Chicago, which also presses their garbage trucks into plow service to augment their regular plowing fleet. It adds 200 plow vehicles to their fleet that they already own and maintain for other purposes...