Euro oil spec thats better than dexos 1/r?

[Glenda W.]

I said stick to the spec. Many times I emphasized that one isn't better than the other globally, as you think. It's that standards have been set, and classes of oils have been evaluated to correctly protect certain engines.

Why are you hung up on this "stricter spec" nonsense?

When I was a bright eyed, bushy tailed tech I believed this too. What comes with experience is the quest for constant learning and improvement. It doesn’t take long to realize in some vehicles/circumstances the spec is absolutely not good enough. Heck I’m still dealing with an oil burner now. Many examples here alone of oils that weren’t up to the task ranging from stuck oil rings to severe varnish and deposits on 5k intervals. I suggest doing more reading here and less posting. This subject has been covered extensively over the years. You come in here sounding like a shop teacher….or a salesman.

 

[siriusc1024]

When I was a bright eyed, bushy tailed tech I believed this too. What comes with experience is the quest for constant learning and improvement. It doesn’t take long to realize in some vehicles/circumstances the spec is absolutely not good enough. Heck I’m still dealing with an oil burner now. Many examples here alone of oils that weren’t up to the task ranging from stuck oil rings to severe varnish and deposits on 5k intervals. I suggest doing more reading here and less posting. This subject has been covered extensively over the years. You come in here sounding like a shop teacher….or a salesman.

You're the one who is putting non-MS-6395 oil in a Pentastar, an engine known for lubrication-related valvetrain failures . I have detailed this on a couple threads, but you choose not to learn.

Which oil am I selling? I see a lot of people supporting M1 specifically. M1 makes good oil. If it meets the spec then run it. If it does not, results may vary.

 

[OVERKILL]

I said stick to the spec.

You said:

I'd put something like Quaker State Synthetic up against any Euro spec any day for a GM engine.

Stick to the specs unless you find for sure otherwise. Manufacturers make a spec for their engines. It's not global. Euro isn't better than Dex. Dex isn't better than Euro. Within the application there is a difference.

Followed by:

I get the impression that people think running Euro oil is some sort of cheat code for maximum super engine protection. As if the oil type specified by domestic automakers is part of some planned obsolescence conspiracy. Yet, the list of most reliable cars on both Edmunds and Consumer Reports is consistently pretty short of European cars. Hmmm gee. Putting European cars and European oil on a pedestal isn't correct.

Attempting to correlate "reliability" with oil standards.
Followed by:

OEM's test lubrication properties for specific engines to a far higher degree than you or I could possibly do. ASTM tests, but how do you choose what's good within each category for which engine?

Which, as we've discussed elsewhere, for most domestic OEM's, are just the API tests, while it is the Euro OEM's that have an extensive battery of engine tests. In the context of this post, this is why it's good that GM has incorporated a few of the European ACEA test protocols into dexos, because that makes for a better oil, due to more testing.

You then rolled out your personal anecdote of QS 10W-30 "protecting better" in your own application, as an example of dexos being superior to Euro oils in GM engine applications:

QS 5w-30 Synthetic protects way better than Mobil 0w-40 Euro FS in my GM engine. Better oil pressure as temps climb, less evaporative loss, far fewer filings on the plug magnet. Went through 3 changes on the Euro btw. Pretty consistent results. QS showed improvement on the very first. That doesn't mean I'd call it a better oil period and feel comfortable putting it in a BMW.

Many times I emphasized that one isn't better than the other globally, as you think. It's that standards have been set, and classes of oils have been evaluated to correctly protect certain engines.

What standards specifically? We now have the oil you derided as being inferior in your GM engine:

I already described that Quaker State Synthetic (Dex) has better temp stability (pressure gauge, temp gauge) and less wear (drainplug magnet) than Mobil 1 Euro FS (non-Dex) in my LS1 (GM). What more is there to say? Predictably, everyone here is throwing a fit about it.

carrying the highest possible dexos approval. How do you reconcile that with your statements about dexos and Euro approvals?

Why are you hung up on this "stricter spec" nonsense?

What part of more extensive testing regiments is "nonsense"? You can't have it both ways. You cannot argue that the OEM's do extensive testing and that we should rely on that, and when it's shown that the Euro OEM's do considerably MORE extensive testing, argue that this isn't relevant because they are Euro oils/OEM's, particularly in light of your newfound discovery that GM is in fact incorporating some of those Euro tests into their standard.

 

[Glenda W.]

You're the one who is putting non-MS-6395 oil in a Pentastar, an engine known for lubrication-related valvetrain failures .

For very good reason, MS-6395 is not up to the task of severe service. I have learned, the hard way. You’re not listening because you think you know it all.

 

[OVERKILL]

For very good reason, MS-6395 is not up to the task of severe service. I have learned, the hard way. You’re not listening because you think you know it all.

Yes, much of the argument here is akin to saying that I shouldn't hire a welder certified for nuclear because my application is just basic civil plumbing and that I'm somehow going to get a better result with a civi welder rather than the guy with the more stringent nuclear certifications.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I would put Castrol Euro 5w30 up against any off the shelf full syn 5w30 on the market. Stout add pack/TBN and 11.9CST@100

I’ll see your Castol Euro 5w30 and go all in on HPL No VII Euro 5w30. Running E30 @ 14.4k miles, the TBN was still 7.79!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

This is actually kinda wild. I wonder if GM expedited the a approvals because of the 6.2L issues and were just like, "Mobil 1!!! You're it!"

Or if Mobil had been working toward DexosR approval for a while.

Many of the specs, because Exxon owns part of the additive company, have been met or exceeded long before the spec ever becomes a standard. IIRC Mobil said they met the requirements for API SP like 8 years before the SP spec was actually a thing.

Maybe @OVERKILL can clarify if I remembered incorrectly.

 

[OVERKILL]

Many of the specs, because Exxon owns part of the additive company, have been met or exceeded long before the spec ever becomes a standard. IIRC Mobil said they met the requirements for API SP like 8 years before the SP spec was actually a thing.

Maybe @OVERKILL can clarify if I remembered incorrectly.

It was actually @buster that shared that nugget, not sure if it was API SP, but the general gist is right, Mobil tends to be WELL ahead of the curve in meeting the API/ILSAC performance requirements, usually a generation or two ahead.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

It was actually @buster that shared that nugget, not sure if it was API SP, but the general gist is right, Mobil tends to be WELL ahead of the curve in meeting the API/ILSAC performance requirements, usually a generation or two ahead.

Ah yes. Buster is usually the first in for posts like that, but I know you’re generally a great source for historical progressions as well. @RDY4WAR is our resident expert for the user side of HPL, which provides a great contrast for the difference between a shelf stock and oils formulated for maximum performance.

 

[TwoC400s]

I’ll see your Castol Euro 5w30 and go all in on HPL No VII Euro 5w30. Running E30 @ 14.4k miles, the TBN was still 7.79!

At current prices I would need the HPL to have a service life of 30,000 miles to break even.

 

[TwoC400s]

You said:


Followed by:

Attempting to correlate "reliability" with oil standards.
Followed by:

Which, as we've discussed elsewhere, for most domestic OEM's, are just the API tests, while it is the Euro OEM's that have an extensive battery of engine tests. In the context of this post, this is why it's good that GM has incorporated a few of the European ACEA test protocols into dexos, because that makes for a better oil, due to more testing.

You then rolled out your personal anecdote of QS 10W-30 "protecting better" in your own application, as an example of dexos being superior to Euro oils in GM engine applications:


What standards specifically? We now have the oil you derided as being inferior in your GM engine:

carrying the highest possible dexos approval. How do you reconcile that with your statements about dexos and Euro approvals?

What part of more extensive testing regiments is "nonsense"? You can't have it both ways. You cannot argue that the OEM's do extensive testing and that we should rely on that, and when it's shown that the Euro OEM's do considerably MORE extensive testing, argue that this isn't relevant because they are Euro oils/OEM's, particularly in light of your newfound discovery that GM is in fact incorporating some of those Euro tests into their standard.

I think it's pretty obvious that Dexos oils have "intelligent molecules" that know when they're in a GM engine.

 

[OilUzer]

Castrol molecules are more intelligent and chose Ford.

 

[wwillson]

At current prices I would need the HPL to have a service life of 30,000 miles to break even.

Not a problem. You'll find several outstanding UOAs here repeatedly running HPL well over 30k miles. But I guess it depends on how you define "break even".

 

[edyvw]

It was actually @buster that shared that nugget, not sure if it was API SP, but the general gist is right, Mobil tends to be WELL ahead of the curve in meeting the API/ILSAC performance requirements, usually a generation or two ahead.

Pennzoil Platinum Euro SN+ had SP additive pack 3yrs before SP hit the road.

 

[siriusc1024]

You said:


Followed by:

Attempting to correlate "reliability" with oil standards.
Followed by:

Which, as we've discussed elsewhere, for most domestic OEM's, are just the API tests, while it is the Euro OEM's that have an extensive battery of engine tests. In the context of this post, this is why it's good that GM has incorporated a few of the European ACEA test protocols into dexos, because that makes for a better oil, due to more testing.

You then rolled out your personal anecdote of QS 10W-30 "protecting better" in your own application, as an example of dexos being superior to Euro oils in GM engine applications:


What standards specifically? We now have the oil you derided as being inferior in your GM engine:

carrying the highest possible dexos approval. How do you reconcile that with your statements about dexos and Euro approvals?

What part of more extensive testing regiments is "nonsense"? You can't have it both ways. You cannot argue that the OEM's do extensive testing and that we should rely on that, and when it's shown that the Euro OEM's do considerably MORE extensive testing, argue that this isn't relevant because they are Euro oils/OEM's, particularly in light of your newfound discovery that GM is in fact incorporating some of those Euro tests into their standard.

Listen, I'm not going to go off into the weeds with you. Let's stick to the crux of the issue - go with the OEM recommended spec or not?

We both do the same thing. We're both trusting the engineers who actually do oil analysis on the vehicles they help design. Where we differ is you consider one spec superior to another. I say the specs are targeted.

Let me put it in a very simple way.

"Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 0W-40 is the first and only dexos2™-approved motor oil developed specifically for Chevrolet Corvettes."
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/find-an-oil-for-my-vehicle/chevrolet

This or Euro in a C8? What Mobil and GM recommends or what you think it should have?

 

[4WD]

Castrol molecules are more intelligent and chose Ford.

Dang, and to think I had a Ford when it oxidized in my Pentastar

 

[Glenda W.]

Let me put it in a very simple way.

"Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 0W-40 is the first and only dexos2™-approved motor oil developed specifically for Chevrolet Corvettes."
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/find-an-oil-for-my-vehicle/chevrolet

This or Euro in a C8? What Mobil and GM recommends or what you think it should have?

Love it. This post shows just how far over your head you are!

 

[4WD]

Love it. This post shows just how far over your head you are!

That makes me curious - but not enough to unignore

 

[edyvw]

Listen, I'm not going to go off into the weeds with you. Let's stick to the crux of the issue - go with the OEM recommended spec or not?

We both do the same thing. We're both trusting the engineers who actually do oil analysis on the vehicles they help design. Where we differ is you consider one spec superior to another. I say the specs are targeted.

Let me put it in a very simple way.

"Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 0W-40 is the first and only dexos2™-approved motor oil developed specifically for Chevrolet Corvettes."
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/find-an-oil-for-my-vehicle/chevrolet

This or Euro in a C8? What Mobil and GM recommends or what you think it should have?

Tell us, what else is going on on Reddit?

 

[OVERKILL]

Listen, I'm not going to go off into the weeds with you. Let's stick to the crux of the issue - go with the OEM recommended spec or not?

I mean, you seem pretty willing to step away from the topic and try and go after my credibility in the other thread

We both do the same thing. We're both trusting the engineers who actually do oil analysis on the vehicles they help design. Where we differ is you consider one spec superior to another. I say the specs are targeted.

No, we don't do the same thing. I spend considerable time researching something before I start voicing my opinions on it, let alone authoritatively.

I consider a concert of actual engine tests more definitive than the base API/ILSAC tests. The crux of the issue is that you spent some time constructing a strawman about how dexos was a more robust spec for GM engines, due to it's association WITH those GM engines, than the Euro approvals. This was of course knocked down by the same oil being discussed in your examples, getting the highest possible dexos approval basically overnight, meaning its performance exceeds the requirements of the dexos approvals being discussed.

Let me put it in a very simple way.

"Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 0W-40 is the first and only dexos2™-approved motor oil developed specifically for Chevrolet Corvettes."
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/find-an-oil-for-my-vehicle/chevrolet

This or Euro in a C8? What Mobil and GM recommends or what you think it should have?

You are aware that ESP Formula 0W-40 IS a Euro oil, right?