Euro oil spec thats better than dexos 1/r?

[chris719]

Why would you choose the HPL Euro over their dexos?

Because their Euro is the closest thing to DexosR which is a Euro spec for all intents and purposes. Even HPL believes their Euro is a better add pack because that's what their Supercar oil is based on (a VW package if I recall correctly). If you can't understand it after all that has been written by myself and others in this thread, there is not really any hope.

 

[DirectRejection]

40,000 mile OCI.
@High Performance Lubricants and I agreed that this is entirely realistic for my circumstances.

As it stands now I SAFELY do 30,000 mile OCIs on HPL PP 0W8 !!

My personal preference is to invest in highest quality motor oil, and High Performance Lubricants goes well beyond factory specs.

For me, there is only highest confidence after 400,000 total miles on HPL oils, their HDEO 0W16 earlier, and mostly Premium Plus 0W8.

Mercedes Benz C400 ??
Pfffft.

 

[siriusc1024]

I'm afraid you are missing the mark completely. Dexos2 became DexosR. Dexos2 is a Euro spec (C3 based), thus GM's best spec is Euro based. The only reason FS was not licensed is probably because it is full SAPS (not a bad thing for cars without GPF), the same reason BMW does not license it for new standards.

Not sure I am. If DexosR is Euro you, if you believe Euro superior, should have no problem using DexosR compliant oils.

 

[chris719]

Not sure I am. If DexosR is Euro you, if you believe Euro superior, should have not problem using DexosR compliant oils.

Did I ever say DexosR is inferior? I did not, it is ACEA C3 based and I said that pages ago. It is probably not quite as stringent as the German sub-standards but it is at least ballpark.

 

[siriusc1024]

Did I ever say DexosR is inferior? I did not, it is ACEA C3 based and I said that pages ago. It is probably not quite as stringent as the German sub-standards but it is at least ballpark.

No you didn't. I'm generalizing because there seem to be people here who do.

Again, though, what is this stringent? A40 is going to work better in a Corvette/Camaro than DexosR because Porsche tested that oil in Porsche engines extensively?

 

[OVERKILL]

So when you look at that GM bulletin you don't see the obvious problem? It's model year specific. It's not engine-specific. GM already lost integrity with their quality control.

I mean it specifically says "L87 6.2L V8", so it is engine-specific, just for a chosen year range.

We are in a bit of a paradox here, because you can't claim GM has lost integrity while continuing to champion dexos as the be-all and end-all for GM applications.

 

[chris719]

No you didn't. I'm generalizing because there seem to be people here who do.

Again, though, what is this stringent? A40 is going to work better in a Corvette/Camaro than DexosR because Porsche tested that oil in Porsche engines extensively?

Well, when the test limits are largely harmonized except A40/C40 add a track test that does not exist in, say, DexosR or BMW LL-04, then you could say in one regard it is more stringent. All engines are more similar than different, which is why most oils carry numerous approvals at the same time. Other than weird exceptions like coating compatibility, you can generally pour any "good enough" oil into any engine.

I don't know what your overall point is anymore.

 

[OVERKILL]

No you didn't. I'm generalizing because there seem to be people here who do.

Again, though, what is this stringent? A40 is going to work better in a Corvette/Camaro than DexosR because Porsche tested that oil in Porsche engines extensively?

I mean, if dexosR was still dexos2, A40 and dexos2 would be on the same oil: ESP X4 0W-40

 

[siriusc1024]

I mean it specifically says "L87 6.2L V8", so it is engine-specific, just for a chosen year range.

We are in a bit of a paradox here, because you can't claim GM has lost integrity while continuing to champion dexos as the be-all and end-all for GM applications.

Seriously? Is it for all 6.2 gen V engines? L87 has been out since 2019. It's year specific.

 

[OVERKILL]

Because their Euro is the closest thing to DexosR which is a Euro spec for all intents and purposes. Even HPL believes their Euro is a better add pack because that's what their Supercar oil is based on (a VW package if I recall correctly). If you can't understand it after all that has been written by myself and others in this thread, there is not really any hope.

Yes, and Dave has said that FS 0W-40 was the top performing OTS oil they tested internally.

 

[OVERKILL]

Seriously? Is it for all 6.2 gen V engines? L87 has been out since 2019. It's year specific.

You said it's model year specific, not engine specific, while in fact it's both model year and engine specific, hence it not applying to the 5.3.

 

[siriusc1024]

Well, when the test limits are largely harmonized except A40/C40 add a track test that does not exist in, say, DexosR or BMW LL-04, then you could say in one regard it is more stringent. All engines are more similar than different, which is why most oils carry numerous approvals at the same time. Other than weird exceptions like coating compatibility, you can generally pour any "good enough" oil into any engine.

I don't know what your overall point is anymore.

What's the title of this post?

Euro oil spec thats better than dexos 1/r?​

Consistently I've stated there is no better oil. It's not a thing. Whether one oil is superior depends on the application.

 

[chris719]

What's the title of this post?

Euro oil spec thats better than dexos 1/r?​

Consistently I've stated there is no better oil. It's not a thing. Whether one oil is superior depends on the application.

This is only true at the top end of the spectrum. You can pour Porsche C40 ESP X4 0W-40 into almost any car and it will give fantastic results, even cars that call for Dexos 1 or some of the lesser Ford / Stellantis specs. Conversely, you cannot pour that Dexos 1 or Ford oil into a Porsche 911 and expect things to turn out well.

 

[siriusc1024]

You said it's model year specific, not engine specific, while in fact it's both model year and engine specific, hence it not applying to the 5.3.

What a weak tactic. Come on. The bulletin lists the 6.2 specifically. That's called context clues. Shouldn't have to mention that it's not talking about the Chevrolet Equinox either.

 

[siriusc1024]

This is only true at the top end of the spectrum. You can pour Porsche C40 ESP X4 0W-40 into almost any car and it will give fantastic results, even cars that call for Dexos 1 or some of the lesser Ford / Stellantis specs. Conversely, you cannot pour that Dexos 1 or Ford oil into a Porsche 911 and expect things to turn out well.

Correct, but what else do automotive manufacturers look for in their vehicles? What are the results they are looking for? That's why there are various Euro oil specs (C20, C30, A40). Same for Dex.

 

[chris719]

Correct, but what else do automotive manufacturers look for in their vehicles? What are the results they are looking for? That's why there are various Euro oil specs (C20, C30, A40). Same for Dex.

Well, it's probably not as complicated as we think for most applications. I don't have the PDFs in front of me but C20, C30, A40 largely meet the same basic specifications in terms of wear. C specifications are mid-SAPS to be compatible with cars that have GPF/DPFs. The 20,30,40 is just simply viscosity for the HTHS vs fuel economy tradeoff that Porsche makes for every model. The only times I think it is that important is when we get to things like the Porsche GT engines or Corvette Z06 with special coatings that have designated oils.

 

[siriusc1024]

Well, it's probably not as complicated as we think for most applications. I don't have the PDFs in front of me but C20, C30, A40 largely meet the same basic specifications in terms of wear. C specifications are mid-SAPS to be compatible with cars that have GPF/DPFs. The 20,30,40 is just simply viscosity for the HTHS vs fuel economy tradeoff that Porsche makes for every model. The only times I think it is that important is when we get to things like the Porsche GT engines or Corvette Z06 with special coatings that have designated oils.

It's not complicated in terms of explanation. All those tests done are targeted. It's very specific. How the tests are performed, and how the results are interpreted within the context of an engine's design envelope, is where it gets complicated.

Because that part is so complicated is the reason I say stay within the manufacturer's recommendations. They've done all the work for you. Take advantage of it. The creative energy and research can go into selecting within the specs.

I'll try to frame it from the perspective of many here - Porsche and Euro oils. 2.0T Macan specs C20. Why not A40 if it protects better? Do you know because I don't. I do know that they know

 

[Shel_B]

It doesn’t count if one doesn’t lick drain plug. Than you grained it between teeth, like Turkish coffee. More stuff between teeth, more wear. It is as simple as that.

No, it's not. You have to account for the space between teeth, gingivitis, or lack of it, and the effects of plaque. Everyone wants to oversimplify ...

 

[chris719]

It's not complicated in terms of explanation. All those tests done are targeted. It's very specific. How the tests are performed, and how the results are interpreted within the context of an engine's design envelope, is where it gets complicated.

Because that part is so complicated is the reason I say stay within the manufacturer's recommendations. They've done all the work for you. Take advantage of it. The creative energy and research can go into selecting within the specs.

I'll try to frame it from the perspective of many here - Porsche and Euro oils. 2.0T Macan specs C20. Why not A40 if it protects better? Do you know because I don't. I do know that they know

But we do know why. They spec C because Macan has GPF/OPF to meet emissions. They spec 20 not 40 for fuel economy because the intended use of a Macan is not 5000 laps on the Nurburgring. In a world without CAFE and EU fuel economy or CO2 standards every Porsche would use A40/C40, yes.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

My position on the subject of 0w-40 FS is that it was approved as an emergency measure. GM has evaluated that formula. It wasn't approved before for their reasons. Logically, it was similar enough, but it was missing a couple properties that GM required. GM greenlighted it because the 0w-40 oils aren't as common, and there would be a supply shortage that further inconvenienced GM customers. Yes on the ESP?

Your position is wrong. The only properties 0w40 FS was “missing” were: royalty checks to GM for every quart sold and the dexos R moniker on the front and back of each jug. That’s it. It wasn’t reformulated overnight; that oil had always exceeded the dexos R requirements; Mobil simply didn’t want to pay a tithe for the label since they already had other oils approved.

dexos may be better than API standard, but it is hardly a robust standard when compared to the European engine test approvals.