euro honda oil viscosities

[oilcanboyd]

here is a picture of a german owners manual from a 99 honda integra type-r. note all the viscosities that honda allows to be used their ITR's. edit: spell check, etc.. [ November 26, 2003, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[DavoNF]

Doesn't seem to be working.

 

[oilcanboyd]

this showed up from honda-tech and the poster said to copy and paste the url and type .orig.jpg to see a larger pic. enjoy.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by DavoNF: Doesn't seem to be working.

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Me fix.

 

[crashz]

Curious, I don't see a 5w-20 on there!

 

[TooSlick]

CrashZ, Is it safe to assume you're not a Mech Eng or Aero Eng? Kinetic Energy = 1/2 (mass)(velocity)(velocity) If you are driving on the Autobahn @ 140 mph, it requires approx four times the Hp that it does at 70 mph. This results in much higher engine loads, and you can easily see sustained oil temps of 250F-270F. This is particularly true with an engine that's designed/geared like this Honda - it's practically a motorcycle engine. An SAE 20w-50 oil running @ 250F will have approx the same bearing viscosity as a 5w-30 or 10w-30; running @ 210F. A 20w-50 running @ 270F will have the same bearing viscosity as a 5w-20; running @ 210F! There's no conspiracy here ...it's simple High School Physics.

 

[geeeman]

Soooooo...if you use 5W20 in an engine designed for 210 F oil temps... ...and find yourself in an extreme situation where oil temps are rising, does 5W20 give you any margin of safety... What is the viscosity of 5W20 at, say 250f ? I personally would rather be slightly down on fuel economy most of the time, but have a safety reserve if needed, rather than optimize fuel economy all of the time, but risk engine damage in SEVERE conditions.

 

[oilcanboyd]

i think 5w-20 was not included b/c this manual is for a 1999 integra and if i recall correctly, honda didnt start recommending 5w-20 until 2001.

 

[oilcanboyd]

for those who cant read the recommended weights b/c its not clear, left click on the picture, go to properties and click on it, then copy the URL address, paste into your address box, add <b>.orig.jpg</b> to the end of the address, and then press enter.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by oilcanboyd: i think 5w-20 was not included b/c this manual is for a 1999 integra and if i recall correctly, honda didnt start recommending 5w-20 until 2001.

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That is correct, my wife's 2000 Civic manual makes no mention of 5w20 whatsoever, only 5w30 or 10w30.

 

[Jay]

It's no secret that Honda's oil recommendations for other countries differ from US recommendations. But it has been proven again and again that American Honda's 20-weight recommendation is sound. There is no wear benefit to going to a heavier oil in Honda engines with roller cam followers. They're just wasting power and gas over there.

 

[Primus]

Honda Civic (97) info: In German manual 5W-30 for 1.6 VTEC is from -30 C to 0 C only: http://www.oilclub.ru/upload/docs/civicoil.GIF Honda Japan (current): http://www.honda.co.jp/parts/hop/oil/next02.html

 

[Matt89]

Primus; Love the oil can in that Japan link. They're really showing off the "SL"...

 

[quadrun1]

Well in my experience, little 1.6 liter Civic engines run like crap on 20W-50. I had a '94 Civic in hot and humid southeast Asia and the engine and gearshift vibrated like mad, because 20W-50 is too damn thick, even in 93ºF weather. Poor little engine struggled to idle, fighting such a thick viscosity. I disregarded the recommendation for 20W-50 and ran Mobil 1 5W-30, using 10,000 km intervals. My cousin still has that car, and the engine runs great 9 years later. 20W-50 in a Civic is just plain wrong! [ November 26, 2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: quadrun1 ]

 

[geeeman]

Honda's NEED a lighter oil due to the very tight engine clearances...or so a Honda service manager tried to tell me once... It appears that he was woefully incorrect...!!! 20W50 and 15W50 and 10W40...or straight weight 30 (I think...hard to read) are not thin by NA standards. Makes you wonder about that 5W20 stuff... Fuel economy, or engine protection? Seeing stuff like this kinda makes you wonder...

 

[FowVay]

A very interesting observation on the Japanese web page is that the hot rod Acura NSX and Honda S-2000 both call for the SL Gold oil which is a 5W-40 viscosity. American Honda is recommending 10W-30 in the S-2000.

 

[Hankrr]

quote:

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Originally posted by quadrun1: Well in my experience, little 1.6 liter Civic engines run like crap on 20W-50. 20W-50 in a Civic is just plain wrong!

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I would agree but would like to add that most of us with Honda's that call for the 5-20 aren't jumping to a 20-50 but rather a good 5-30 or 0-30. I put the Mobil-1 0W-30 Racing oil in my 2003 CRV.

 

[Hankrr]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick: CrashZ, Is it safe to assume you're not a Mech Eng or Aero Eng? Kinetic Energy = 1/2 (mass)(velocity)(velocity) If you are driving on the Autobahn @ 140 mph, it requires approx four times the Hp that it does at 70 mph. This results in much higher engine loads, and you can easily see sustained oil temps of 250F-270F. This is particularly true with an engine that's designed/geared like this Honda - it's practically a motorcycle engine. An SAE 20w-50 oil running @ 250F will have approx the same bearing viscosity as a 5w-30 or 10w-30; running @ 210F. A 20w-50 running @ 270F will have the same bearing viscosity as a 5w-20; running @ 210F! There's no conspiracy here ...it's simple High School Physics.

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This brings to mind my trips through the desert of Arizona and Nevada during the summer months when it reach's 120 degrees and I cruse 100 in some of those open areas. Myself I'm not comfortable with the 20w oil under those conditions.

 

[Dr. T]

This thread once again proves that there is no engine 'tolerance' differences with respect to oil viscosity recommendations. It's purely a temperature thing with a slight modification depending on whether you have a High HP/High performance/Turbo model etc. where a 10-30 or 5-40 may be recommended over a 5-30 for the base model due to higher output/higher running temps. ect. at borderline crossover temps.. In either case any of the 'more cojone' viscosities can be safely used.

 

[Cary]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick: CrashZ, Is it safe to assume you're not a Mech Eng or Aero Eng? Kinetic Energy = 1/2 (mass)(velocity)(velocity) If you are driving on the Autobahn @ 140 mph, it requires approx four times the Hp that it does at 70 mph. This results in much higher engine loads, and you can easily see sustained oil temps of 250F-270F. This is particularly true with an engine that's designed/geared like this Honda - it's practically a motorcycle engine. An SAE 20w-50 oil running @ 250F will have approx the same bearing viscosity as a 5w-30 or 10w-30; running @ 210F. A 20w-50 running @ 270F will have the same bearing viscosity as a 5w-20; running @ 210F! There's no conspiracy here ...it's simple High School Physics.

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Amen. This is the reason that I believe that BMW North America says that you can use Mobil 1 10w-30 even though it is way to thin according to the manual. I think the manufactures expect the car will never see that type of high speed sustained driving. If you run the CST numbers you will find that for approximately every 30F increase in tempurature, an oil drops one grade in weight, so like said above, 20 weight at 210F = 30 weight at 240F = 40 weight at 270F. The funny thing about the comparison between driving in Europe (specifically Germany) and the American west is that speeds are remarkably similar. Yes, in Germany there are people driving at speeds of up to 150mph plus, but for the most part cars drive about 85-100 mph (something about $5/gallon gas that makes you think about fuel economy). Here in the West, I often see in low population areas (Highway 5 from LA to the Oregon Border) average speeds of 80+ up to the 95 or so. Lets not mention the fact that in the american west temps can easily be 105f plus in the summer compared to Germany's 85F or so. Bottom line to me is that everyone should consider their driving habits and climate. If you have a new honda and drive like a grandma never going over 70mph or using full throttle, 5w-20 is fine. If you have the same car and are driving around Arizona in the middle of summer at 90+mph, a heavy 30 weight or light 40 weight (i.e. GC or M1) are probably a good idea. Me, I'll stick with my one size fits all M1 0w-40, unless I defect to Redline 5w-40. Cary