Esso XD 0W30 5200 miles in GM 3.6L DI

[21Rouge]

I think this is the first UOA posted for an HDEO oil in this DI engine. I am pleased to see much better wear #s.

To be fair everything was in its favour i.e. summer temperature and lots of HWY driving.

But clearly this Canadian only HDEO protects well.

And as expected the TBN is still huge (as I recall the VOA of this CJ-4 oil is 9 and in 5200 miles it has only fallen to 7)

For sure I could have run this oil much longer but I did do a full drain and now have M1 0W30 AFE in the sump.

However I am convinced, after two successive OCIs of GC and XD ('thick' 30s), that this engine is much peppier with this light M1 0W30 AFE oil. Hopefully it protects well also. But clearly this readily available XD is an oil I will have no hesitation in using in the future.

For you Americans this report should give you confidence to use Rotella in this application.

 

[addyguy]

Heh-heh - you did even better than you think - CJ-4 XD-3 starts at a TBN of 7.7 - so there was no real TBN loss at all!

Shows a really tough oil is needed for the DI 3.6 - this and the recent PU run in one of these are some of the best!

I think it was a mistake to go with the AFE 0W-30, IMO, but that's just me......

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I think it was a mistake to go with the AFE 0W-30, IMO, but that's just me......


Hey I could help you out Addy. I know you are pushing 25k kms in your current OCI

. I could drain out the M1 in a couple of months and send it along to you!

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Heh-heh - you did even better than you think - CJ-4 XD-3 starts at a TBN of 7.7 - so there was no real TBN loss at all!


Wow! Maybe lab error?

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Shows a really tough oil is needed for the DI 3.6 - this and the recent PU run in one of these are some of the best!


But unlike PU this Esso HDEO CJ-4 isnt warranty approved and yet clearly it protects very well.

Originally Posted By: addyguy

I think it was a mistake to go with the AFE 0W-30, IMO, but that's just me......


I am trying to follow CATERHAM's mantra: As thin as possible as thick as necessary

 

[CATERHAM]

Good report on the PAO based Esso XD-3.
As you said, you could have easily run this oil for another 8,500 kms.

Not surprised you can notice the difference with the lighter M1 AFE 0W-30; a 0.5cP drop in HTHS is a lot.

 

[Gary Allan]

Your results lead me to believe that those with fuel issues are in some way defective. Having a bad run of injectors or an improperly flashed ECM.

Your indications look "normal". Look at this poor fellow after short OCI's and look at the time frame that the mileage was racked up.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/rli-biosyn-0w-30-08-acadia-3-6-5022-on-oil.120199/

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your results lead me to believe that those with fuel issues are in some way defective.


I dont think so Gary. Take a look at my winter UOA for the quality GRP III Petro Canada 0W30. Tons of fuel detected leading to lots of shear. For our vehicle winter driving with lots of idling and way more short trips results in lots of fuel dilution.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: addyguy

I think it was a mistake to go with the AFE 0W-30, IMO, but that's just me......


That's a bit harsh, it's never a mistake to run an approved oil. Is it an ideal choice to deal with possible fuel dilution later this winter; perhaps not.

For the record, I didn't recommend this PAO based oil for this application. If it does well, full credit belongs to 21Rouge. It will be interesting to see how it does compared to PC 0W-30.
Ironically, in light of the fuel dilution issue in the winter, it may be better to run a heavier oil like XD-3 in the winter and a light 30wt in the summer.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your results lead me to believe that those with fuel issues are in some way defective.


I dont think so Gary. Take a look at my winter UOA for the quality GRP III Petro Canada 0W30. Tons of fuel detected leading to lots of shear. For our vehicle winter driving with lots of idling and way more short trips results in lots of fuel dilution.


Actually Gary may have a point.
You could have a leaking injector(s). I wouldn't automatically assume it's a given that prolonged idling in the winter automatically leads to fuel dilution.
Since you have proof that it's happening I'd at least have the dealer look into it (under warranty of course).

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: addyguy

I think it was a mistake to go with the AFE 0W-30, IMO, but that's just me......


As CATERHAM mentioned this M1 oil has approvals out the whazoo...more than required by GM for this engine i.e. all GM 'needs' in this application is an oil with 6094M and this AFE possesses 4718. This oil is no slouch and a different beast than its 'gets no respect brother' namely M1 5W30.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It will be interesting to see how it does compared to PC 0W-30.


Yes CATERHAM that will be the fair comparison as both oils will have been run over the winter months. But to be fair the engine was still breaking in for that run of PC 0W30.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Ironically, in light of the fuel dilution issue in the winter, it may be better to run a heavier oil like XD-3 in the winter and a light 30wt in the summer.


Yes that is counter intuitive isnt it? We would like the lighter oil for the colder weather but in this application the winter fuel dilution may well be the deciding factor.

[Just wait till next spring when I will run the FUCHS 0W20 in this engine]

And I do like the peppiness I am feeling with the much lighter M1 0W30 AFE

.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your results lead me to believe that those with fuel issues are in some way defective.


I dont think so Gary. Take a look at my winter UOA for the quality GRP III Petro Canada 0W30. Tons of fuel detected leading to lots of shear. For our vehicle winter driving with lots of idling and way more short trips results in lots of fuel dilution.


Actually Gary may have a point.
You could have a leaking injector(s).


So would not there still be evidence of leaking injectors in these past 2 consecutive UOAs (March to August)? Of course it is very possible that I burned off the excess fuel prior to sampling but on going excess fuel should show itself in the kV at 100C. For XD the virgin kVisc at 100 is 12.2. After 5200 miles it is fallen to 11.37

. I think you might be hard pressed to find any UOA for this engine in which there has not be similar or likely more excessive shear.

In any event given that neither XD nor GC is warranty approved I would need to be careful to show them only the UOAs for the PC run and this current go of M1

.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your results lead me to believe that those with fuel issues are in some way defective.


I dont think so Gary. Take a look at my winter UOA for the quality GRP III Petro Canada 0W30. Tons of fuel detected leading to lots of shear. For our vehicle winter driving with lots of idling and way more short trips results in lots of fuel dilution.


Sorry. I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying that you can't get fuel issues with any engine under some conditions. It's just that there are DI engines (this one) that are always in the sweet spot and are still getting high fuel.

If someone's driving 12k+/year, they have to be more out of fuel enrichment than in fuel enrichment. If they've got high fuel ..and the related wear markers, I think that something is wrong. Your UOA kinda shows that. You've got nothing wrong.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Shows a really tough oil is needed for the DI 3.6


I was thinking that GC would have shown similarly well in a UOA (I kind of think GC and XD 0W30 are comparable oils in lots of ways).

For sure the newer CJ-4 formula of Esso XD provides great protection in a gasoline engine.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
It's just that there are DI engines (this one) that are always in the sweet spot and are still getting high fuel.


Oooops ..the engine referenced in the link (that one).

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
It's just that there are DI engines (this one) that are always in the sweet spot and are still getting high fuel.


Oooops ..the engine referenced in the link (that one).


To be fair Gary the engine you are referencing isn't direct injection.

 

[Gary Allan]

Did the 3.6 go DI in 09+? Then there's definitely something wrong with the linked engine. I beg your pardon.


btw- the XD3 appeared to do well, imo.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Your results lead me to believe that those with fuel issues are in some way defective.


I dont think so Gary. Take a look at my winter UOA for the quality GRP III Petro Canada 0W30. Tons of fuel detected leading to lots of shear. For our vehicle winter driving with lots of idling and way more short trips results in lots of fuel dilution.


Actually Gary may have a point.
You could have a leaking injector(s).


So would not there still be evidence of leaking injectors in these past 2 consecutive UOAs (March to August)? Of course it is very possible that I burned off the excess fuel prior to sampling but on going excess fuel should show itself in the kV at 100C. For XD the virgin kVisc at 100 is 12.2. After 5200 miles it is fallen to 11.37

. I think you might be hard pressed to find any UOA for this engine in which there has not be similar or likely more excessive shear.

In any event given that neither XD nor GC is warranty approved I would need to be careful to show them only the UOAs for the PC run and this current go of M1

.


The PC 0w30 is warranty aprroved, no? And that's the oil you had bad fuel dilution.

Leaking injectors, improper low engine speed mapping, etc, would not be an issue in the summer with primarily highway use.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Did the 3.6 go DI in 09+?


That's right. All 09+ Lambda vehicles i.e Enclave, Outlook, Traverse and Acadia only come with the DI engine.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Then there's definitely something wrong with the linked engine.


That's funny. So if one has the DI engine one at least has an an excuse for a less than stellar UOA!


Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
btw- the XD3 appeared to do well, imo.


Definitely a keeper.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
That's funny. So if one has the DI engine one at least has an an excuse for a less than stellar UOA!


It has confounded a few DI engine owners. We all know the escapades of RS-Audiguy (I never could get his user name right) and the introduction to RLI.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
It has confounded a few DI engine owners. We all know the escapades of RS-Audiguy and the introduction to RLI.


Yup I have seen lots of discussion re the trials and tribulations of DI engines. I have seen those 'shocking' pictures

.

As I recall the prevailing thought is to look for low NOACK and higher HTHS to combat the deposits associated with this application.