Equivalent?

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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by mker
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
So no transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives?
That 30w oil has done the job since 1969. Very low forces are on those gears in that transaxle. I put non detergent 40 weight in an old 1980 garden tractor 20 years ago which is what was called for, I haven't changed it since and it is still going just fine with a lot of use. We are not talking hypoid gears here. I don't think it is that critical what is in that transaxle, it is not going to self destruct.
 
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MolaKule

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Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by mker
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
So no transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives?
....We are not talking hypoid gears here. I don't think it is that critical what is in that transaxle, it is not going to self destruct.
Of course we're not talking about Hypoid differentials and for the record I never said we were, because people don't read other's posts, and a lot of people don't seem to be able to distinguish between EP additives in Hypoid GL-5 lubricants and AW additives in GL-4 MT and transaxle fluids. The transaxle I rebuilt in post #5346303 had a lot of bearing, thrust washer, and gear tooth wear because someone decided a monograde ND 30 was better than a good GL-4 MTF. I think 20 years of hard use after rebuild on the mini-ranch is a testament to the protection offered by a GL-4 with sufficient anti-wear (AW) additives.
 
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MolaKule

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Originally Posted by dlundblad
Don't complicate things guys. Stick with 30 weight ND.
Why? Do transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives? Are we trying to help extend his guys transaxle or stick to some ancient recommendation?
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Don't complicate things guys. Stick with 30 weight ND.
Why? Do transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives? Are we trying to help extend his guys transaxle or stick to some ancient recommendation?
I never said that. I'm simply going by what's in the manual.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Don't complicate things guys. Stick with 30 weight ND.
Why? Do transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives? Are we trying to help extend his guys transaxle or stick to some ancient recommendation?
The 30W has kept that garden tractor going since 1969 without destruction. I am just saying his transaxle is not going to grind itself to death by using the same type lubricant that has been used for the last 51 years. So I don't believe extending life is even an issue.
 
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MolaKule

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Originally Posted by puma4440
Thanks for the feedback, I didn't mean to start an argument.
You didn't. I was giving some technical feedback in the form of educational comments. Some people take issue with educational comments.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Some people take issue with educational comments.
That's a pompous comment. This is just an engine oil discussion forum. No need to take anything personal when people don't agree either.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by puma4440
Thanks for the feedback, I didn't mean to start an argument.
You didn't. I was giving some technical feedback in the form of educational comments. Some people take issue with educational comments.
Just opinions, no educational comments seen.
 

Astro14

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Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Some people take issue with educational comments.
That's a pompous comment. This is just an engine oil discussion forum. No need to take anything personal when people don't agree either.
I disagree. Mola is talking chemistry and technical details. He's the one with the PhD in this stuff. Other folks are talking feelings and folklore. They get upset by expert perspective and commentary because their folkloric sacred cows are challenged. Nothing pompous about technical accuracy and expertise.
 
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Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Some people take issue with educational comments.
That's a pompous comment. This is just an engine oil discussion forum. No need to take anything personal when people don't agree either.
I disagree. Mola is talking chemistry and technical details. He's the one with the PhD in this stuff. Other folks are talking feelings and folklore. They get upset by expert perspective and commentary because their folkloric sacred cows are challenged. Nothing pompous about technical accuracy and expertise.
I'm not saying the guy isn't smart. The last comment is what I was referring to. *Also factually saying one fluid is better while another is proven by time to be good enough and and still recommending the first option is indeed "feelings."
 
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MolaKule

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Originally Posted by puma4440
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists?
Thanks for your questions. The ND 30 mentioned in the manual is suboptimal, obsolete, and was specified at the time because there was no real or better options available, and sufficed until parts replacement was necessary. They were relying on the thin oil film to provide a mediocre level of protection. To answer your last question, Yes there are better lubricants available today. ND oils contain no anti-wear, no corrosion inhibitors, no rust inhibitors, no detergents and no dispersants. Modern gear oils, whether differentials lubes or MTF's, do contain these modern chemistries in order to reduce wear and corrosion. Since Sears liked 30 grade oil, which has a 100C viscosity of about 11.5 cSt, this means an MTF of the same viscosity, such as these products, would work very well to protect against further wear and corrosion. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf or https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil or Penzoil Synchromesh https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/1a3e1219-f005-e811-9c13-ac162d889bd1 OR any other MTF with a GL-4 rating and a API 5W30 grade or SAE 75W80 viscosity. So you have a number of choices: use a modern gear lube for transaxles, or take your chances and continue to use an obsolete engine oil in a transaxle. Good luck. Mola
 
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MolaKule

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Originally Posted by puma4440
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists? A little info, I'm running dual tires loaded with RV antifreeze and wheel weights, its primarily a snow, dirt, and gravel pusher, but I do run it in all temperatures from -15 F to 90 F. I've also considered using an additive like liqui-moly gear friction reducer. Thoughts? Thanks, puma4440
And Mr. puma4440 never said he knew for sure that it currently had a 30 grade ND engine oil in it since there is no indication he had it analyzed. Someone in the past could have replaced it with a more modern gear lube. At least now he has some factual information with which to make a decision.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by puma4440
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists?
Thanks for your questions. The ND 30 mentioned in the manual is suboptimal, obsolete, and was specified at the time because there was no real or better options available, and sufficed until parts replacement was necessary. They were relying on the thin oil film to provide a mediocre level of protection. To answer your last question, Yes there are better lubricants available today. ND oils contain no anti-wear, no corrosion inhibitors, no rust inhibitors, no detergents and no dispersants. Modern gear oils, whether differentials lubes or MTF's, do contain these modern chemistries in order to reduce wear and corrosion. Since Sears liked 30 grade oil, which has a 100C viscosity of about 11.5 cSt, this means an MTF of the same viscosity, such as these products, would work very well to protect against further wear and corrosion. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2080.pdf or https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil or Penzoil Synchromesh https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/1a3e1219-f005-e811-9c13-ac162d889bd1 OR any other MTF with a GL-4 rating and a API 5W30 grade or SAE 75W80 viscosity. So you have a number of choices: use a modern gear lube for transaxles, or take your chances and continue to use an obsolete engine oil in a transaxle. Good luck. Mola
ND oils have no anti wear additives? I'm genuinely curious since it can be used in place of hydraulic oil in many applications.
 

puma4440

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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by puma4440
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists? A little info, I'm running dual tires loaded with RV antifreeze and wheel weights, its primarily a snow, dirt, and gravel pusher, but I do run it in all temperatures from -15 F to 90 F. I've also considered using an additive like liqui-moly gear friction reducer. Thoughts? Thanks, puma4440
And Mr. puma4440 never said he knew for sure that it currently had a 30 grade ND engine oil in it since there is no indication he had it analyzed. Someone in the past could have replaced it with a more modern gear lube. At least now he has some factual information with which to make a decision.
I have no clue what lubricant was left in it... The suburbans had an issue with the shifter gasket going bad and if you let the tractor sit outside, the transaxle would fill up with water, mine was no different. Before I removed it from the frame, I put 2 quarts of diesel and 3 quarts of 30w ND oil in it, jacked up the rear end and let it run in first gear on low idle for a bit, then drained it. Since it's been out, I've replaced all of the oil seals and shifter gasket, primed and painted it, as soon as the frame is finished, I'll start reassembly.
 
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