Equivalent?

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14
Location
PA
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists? A little info, I'm running dual tires loaded with RV antifreeze and wheel weights, its primarily a snow, dirt, and gravel pusher, but I do run it in all temperatures from -15 F to 90 F. I've also considered using an additive like liqui-moly gear friction reducer. Thoughts? Thanks, puma4440
 

puma4440

Thread starter
Messages
14
Location
PA
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
What about a 30w GL4 ?
I'm a noob here, what brand/type would I be looking at?
 
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25,022
Location
Upstate NY
Originally Posted by puma4440
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists? A little info, I'm running dual tires loaded with RV antifreeze and wheel weights, its primarily a snow, dirt, and gravel pusher, but I do run it in all temperatures from -15 F to 90 F. I've also considered using an additive like liqui-moly gear friction reducer. Thoughts? Thanks, puma4440
Was it blue. My Dad had one for his nursery. Manual start. He made this small holder for weights and bolted it in the back where you would attach something and had 2 QT size round oil cans filled with lead. I do not think it was ever good at pushing snow or dirt. I think they also had a snow blower. In the end most of the time it was used to pull a wagon around that was filled with trees we were transplanting from one place to another.
 
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Messages
133
Location
York, Pa
Use whatever name brand you can find Traveller oil is good, some even use gear oil in the transmission. The old Suburbans aren't too fussy about oil but refilling the tranny can be a pain. That's a LOT of added weight! hope you have good breaks and never have to push it because it won't start
 

puma4440

Thread starter
Messages
14
Location
PA
I think the st16 was blue, depends on the year too. As far as brakes, I put new brake liner on it. I'm running 2 sets of ag tires on the rear with a combined 24 gallons of antifreeze plus the wheel weights are 30 lbs each. On the tires, I have 2 sets of 2 link v-bar chains, I haven't had an issue in the past pushing or pulling anything.
 
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2,879
Location
Malaysia
Transaxle is a gear box/ transmission . Gear oil is far more suitable than non-detergent oil or engine oil as it is dedicated oil . GL5 if there is no synchromesh .GL4 if there is synchromesh. Now, at what viscosity grade ? SAE 30 has KV40 of about 100 cSt . I would prefer 80W90 GL5/4 of typical KV40 of 150 cSt over a 75W90 GL5/GL4 of typical KV40 of about 100 cSt
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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I had a 1965 Sears Garden tractor and mowed, seeded, and hauled wood on a 20 acre mini-ranch back in Kansas. The transaxle was not synchronized but you could change gears on the fly. I repainted it a Red/Orange, rebuilt the 7 HP Tecumseh engine, rebuilt the carb, rebuilt the transaxle, and put a small AC/Delco alternator in it with a small diameter pulley. I also installed an extra panel switch that powered a heated snowmobile seat pad, and put a headlight on the hood. It fired up in any weather. smile Many people thought it was a Wheelhorse and I had offers of up to $550.00. I used a Blended (semi-synthetic) GL-4 75W90 in the transaxle and it worked well. Engine oil was a 10W30 synthetic. I used it for over 20 years.
 
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I would stick with the 30W non detergent. The demands that gear box is placing on the lubricant is minimal. Since you do not know the type of metals for bushings being used, I wouldn't deviate from the original spec,you plan on using it in the winter months, I wouldn't go anything thicker.The 30W has done its job all these years.
 
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MolaKule

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OP: If the transaxle in your unit is similar to the one I rebuilt there is nothing in there that can be attacked by modern gear lubes. I would not use a Non-Detergent oil as there is zero anti-wear additives in ND oil and you need those Anti-wear components.
 
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Messages
25
Location
New York
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
 

MolaKule

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Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted by mker
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
So no transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives?
 
Messages
25
Location
New York
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by mker
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
So no transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives?
If it has hypiod type gears then gear oil should be used to prevent excessive wear on the sliding surface. Since it wasn't originally called for it I am not so sure it has that type of gear in the transaxle. Copper corrosion is a concern in long term due to the the sulfur content in the EP gear oil to the bearing and oil cooler( but I doubt it has).
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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21,440
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Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted by mker
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by mker
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
So no transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives?
If it has hypiod type gears then gear oil should be used to prevent excessive wear on the sliding surface. Since it wasn't originally called for it I am not so sure it has that type of gear in the transaxle. Copper corrosion is a concern in long term due to the the sulfur content in the EP gear oil to the bearing and oil cooler( but I doubt it has).
I didn't say anything about EP additives or hypoid differentials. I was referring to Anti-Wear additives. Every transaxle, even one with spider gears, needs a gear lube with anti-wear additives such as a GL-4 rated MTF.. Even a GL-5 rated hypoid differential fluid has metal inhibitors to keep any metals from being attacked, even copper alloys.
 
Messages
25
Location
New York
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by mker
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by mker
I would just stick with non-detergent 30 weigh oil. I am pretty sure back in 1969 there were already all sort of gear oil available yet it didn't ask for it back then. You can never be sure there no copper components inside the gear box. Why take a chance with something else?
So no transaxle gear boxes ever need Anti-Wear additives?
If it has hypiod type gears then gear oil should be used to prevent excessive wear on the sliding surface. Since it wasn't originally called for it I am not so sure it has that type of gear in the transaxle. Copper corrosion is a concern in long term due to the the sulfur content in the EP gear oil to the bearing and oil cooler( but I doubt it has).
I didn't say anything about EP additives or hypoid differentials. I was referring to Anti-Wear additives. Every transaxle, even one with spider gears, needs a gear lube with anti-wear additives such as a GL-4 rated MTF.. Even a GL-5 rated hypoid differential fluid has metal inhibitors to keep any metals from being attacked, even copper alloys.
Copy from Wikipedia " Most lubricants for manual gearboxes and differentials contain extreme pressure (EP) additives and antiwear additives to cope with the sliding action of hypoid bevel gears. Typical additives include dithiocarbamate derivatives and sulfur-treated organic compounds ("sulfurized hydrocarbons").[2] EP additives which contain phosphorus/sulfur compounds are corrosive to yellow metals such as the copper and/or brass used in bushings and synchronizers; the GL-1 class of gear oils does not contain any EP additives and thus finds use in applications which contain parts made of yellow metals. GL-5 is not necessarily backward-compatible in synchro-mesh transmissions which are designed for a GL-4 oil: GL-5 has a lower coefficient of friction due to the higher concentration of EP additives over GL-4, and thus synchros can not engage as effectively. "
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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21,440
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Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted by mker
Copy from Wikipedia " Most lubricants for manual gearboxes and differentials contain extreme pressure (EP) additives and antiwear additives to cope with the sliding action of hypoid bevel gears. Typical additives include dithiocarbamate derivatives and sulfur-treated organic compounds ("sulfurized hydrocarbons").[2]
That blurb from Wiki was not from a formulator who formulates modern gear lubricants and Wiki is behind the times when it comes to knowing what chemistry is in modern gear lubes.
Originally Posted by mker
EP additives which contain phosphorus/sulfur compounds are corrosive to yellow metals such as the copper and/or brass used in bushings and synchronizers; the GL-1 class of gear oils does not contain any EP additives and thus finds use in applications which contain parts made of yellow metals.
Had you been reading informative posts here on BITOG you would know that this is a perpetuated myth by misinformed individuals. Buffering compounds such as metal and corrosion inhibitors keep any S-P compounds from attacking copper alloys. Besides, Modern differential gear lubes use more multi-functional Phosphorus compounds than they do sulfurized ester compounds. Potassium Borates are also used as secondary (cold temp) EP additive which also helps to inhibit any copper alloy corrosion. BTW, "yellow metals" are copper alloys.
Originally Posted by mker
GL-5 is not necessarily backward-compatible in synchro-mesh transmissions which are designed for a GL-4 oil: GL-5 has a lower coefficient of friction due to the higher concentration of EP additives over GL-4, and thus synchros can not engage as effectively. "
Who said anything about backward compatibility? Not I. Once again, your information is incorrect so quit throwing out Strawmen fallacies and committing fallacies of Presumption. GL-5 DOES NOT have a lower coefficient of friction than do properly formulated MTF lubes. GL-5 differential fluids contain Extreme Pressure additives for highly loaded pinion to ring gears. MTL lubricants contain Anti-Wear additives because the gear sets are not as highly loaded as hypoid differentials and contain friction modifiers for synchronizer assemblies. and differential lubes are higher in viscosity than their MTL counterparts of the same grade. MTL's with GL-4 ratings contain specific AW and FM additives, and base oil viscosities suited to MT's. GL-5/MT1 lubricants contain higher viscosity base oils and EP additives for high loads. Whether it be a GL-5 differential fluid or MTF's, they all contain buffering compounds in the form of metal deactivators and corrosion inhibitors, and contain additives packages suited for their respective application. Rather than endlessly arguing, You really need to read these white papers and educate yourself before you make any more incorrect and presumptve statements:: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...bology-and-lubrication-part-i#Post729255 https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...bology-and-lubrication-part-i#Post729255 https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...nual-transmission-lubricants#Post1231182
 
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MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,440
Location
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted by puma4440
Hello all, I've searched and didn't come up with anything... I'm restoring a 1969 Sears Suburban SS12 garden tractor, and the manual calls for 30w non-detergent lubricating oil for the transaxle, I can find it in Traveller brand, but was wondering if with today's lubricants, if something better exists? A little info, I'm running dual tires loaded with RV antifreeze and wheel weights, its primarily a snow, dirt, and gravel pusher, but I do run it in all temperatures from -15 F to 90 F. I've also considered using an additive like liqui-moly gear friction reducer. Thoughts? Thanks, puma4440
Any GL-4 MTF of 75W80 to 75W90 will provide good anti-wear capabilities for your transaxle. For PA. weather I would I would go with a 75W80 such as Redline 75W80 OR Amsoil 75W80
 
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